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AIR
topic
06:59:22 PM Feb 27th 2013
Here's an idea: How about remake the trope pages so that World Half Full and World Half Empty are subtropes of the trope Crapsack World?
ading
04:52:11 PM Apr 2nd 2013
World Half Empty would then just be an aversion of World Half Full.
currentcmine
08:12:34 PM Aug 4th 2013
edited by 69.172.221.4
I want to proffer that subgenres exist for Crapsack World, viz. "Crapsack Altruistic Type" with Orwell's "Animal Farm" as evidence, i.e. "All animals are equal, except that some animals are more equal than others." And the "Crapsack Egoistic Type" with Lewis' "There Will Be Blood" and Daniel Plainview as an example. There are plenty of Egoistic Types, I believe. The Altruisitc Types could use more research. Your thoughts?
ading
03:33:33 PM Aug 28th 2013
^ Many subtropes already exist.
Wereboar
topic
10:55:44 AM Sep 1st 2012
"Deus Ex" does not belong to this trope. As the description points out "Please also note that a Crapsack World will suck for everyone and everything. NO one benefits or enjoys their existence in such a place, and if so, it is only brief.". There are plenty of people benefiting from the situation. Many, if not the most people actually live a decent life (especially those in employ of (shadow) government and corporations), not to mention members of the various cabals. It is almost our present world only with more exacerbated problems.

More a case of "World Half Full". Just note that the worst (morally-wise) possible outcome is to assist people who use artificial plague to their own ends but they also make sure it won't get out of hand.
Anomalocaris55
topic
09:26:07 PM Aug 16th 2012
I know it says no real life examples. Uh, what about the end-Permian extinction? It's so bad, 90% of all life died out. Pretty much all animals were suffering. Heck, they even call it the Great Dying! It seems like the only thriving forms of life were fungi and bacteria. If you can think of any animals or plants that were thriving through the extinction, tell me. I'm not counting the K-T extinction, because at least mammals were thriving - Purgatorius is an example. Fossils were found before and after the extinction.
SeptimusHeap
02:04:50 AM Aug 18th 2012
That would be Death World and not Crapsack World.
ading
04:53:23 PM Apr 2nd 2013
There was no sentient life so it can't really be considered a Crapsack World.
OmniGoat
01:39:57 PM Aug 9th 2014
I'm sure North Korea is pretty crappy.
LogoP
01:58:43 AM Aug 10th 2014
edited by 79.103.102.9
I think that the trope refers to an entire world being crappy. North Korea is more of a Crapsack Country. A pretty small one, too.
SeptimusHeap
02:15:36 AM Aug 10th 2014
Bloodseeker
topic
04:35:03 PM Mar 20th 2012
edited by Bloodseeker
I edited out the part that said that its not a subjective trope and that a crapsack world is a crapsack world for everybody.

A decent chunk of the examples listed here have a population that's relatively well off (sometimes even the majority; its only a crapsack world from the viewpoint of our protagonists), and rich, well-entrenched minorities serving to make bad problems even worse with their sociopathic tendencies are common.
soldier1
topic
12:05:50 PM Feb 23rd 2012
shouldn't some specific parts of the world be added. no racism intended, but Somalia may qualify.(Also north korea because of lack of freedom and rights)
ading
04:54:25 PM Apr 2nd 2013
Crapsack World is a trope about how the audience and author view a place. Real Life has neither, so it cannot qualify.
TiggersAreGreat
topic
05:23:03 AM Dec 23rd 2011
I've got a question: what's the difference between a Crapsack World and a Dystopia? Both of them seem practically synonymous, if you ask me!
ading
04:55:48 PM Apr 2nd 2013
I think the difference is that a Dystopia is a Crapsack World for the purposes of social commentary.
PrometheusUnbound
topic
08:09:54 AM Dec 7th 2011
Could school be considered a real life example of a Crapsack World? Aside from being pretty crapsack itself, it definitely makes the world itself out to be one.
PrometheusUnbound
08:10:23 AM Dec 7th 2011
Once you leave, you're surprised to discover that actually the world is pretty cool with occasional moments of crappiness.
ading
08:40:30 AM Apr 7th 2013
This trope is about how the audience and author, not the people in the work, view a place. School doesn't have an author or audience, so it doesn't qualify.
MsCC93
03:54:31 PM Apr 8th 2013
Crapsack Worlds don't exist in real life...sure school can be a hellhole, but still....
Meeble
topic
08:54:51 AM Feb 21st 2011
This page is being split due to length. It has reached a size where it is in danger of causing server performance issues. See this thread for details.

To alleviate this, I split off the current content along the lines of the current folder structure. New examples should be placed in the appropriate media sub-pages.
kleinbottle
topic
05:47:13 PM Oct 12th 2010
I removed Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou, since it meets virtually none of the criteria for a Crapsack World. For one thing, the series is pegged firmly at the idealistic end of the Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism. True, humanity as a whole seems to be on the decline, but everybody left seems to be neighborly and friendly and no one seems to be struggling to make a living.
Sijo
topic
07:31:24 PM Jul 14th 2010
I think the description of the Marvel Universe as a Crapsack World is severely biased. For one thing, no specific examples are named, are we supposed to just take the poster's word for it? Also he gets some of his facts wrong, the being who committed suicide was NOT God, in fact that story was officially proven false later when it was recreated (as Nemesis the universe-creating system, in the Avengers/Ultraforce crossover); at best it was a TOOL of God's. Also the Syse-Neg story has never been referred to again and may be a case of Canon Discontinuity. While Marvel Earth may still deserve and entry here (what with the Mutant Prejudice that is the foundation of the X-Men series) this section needs an overhaul.
SFH
12:43:46 PM Feb 4th 2011
To be honest, the Wall of Text isn't the only problem. There are no citations. And it really does read as a pointless take that to the writers. I get a lot of people hate Marvel's writers (I'm no fan myself) but if you want to keep something, at least provide reasons for it. There may have been citations before, but if they were removed for being biased, then either keep them or remove the whole thing. Also, another major problem: the crapsack world tendencies of Marvel were made decades ago, and as recent events have shown, Marvel's track record of doing the research is...problematic at best. How much of the crapsack tendencies are still in continuity?
SFH
03:24:20 PM Feb 4th 2011
Okay, maybe the specific column on Marvel is difficult to cite. To be honest, I think the whole thing needs to be taken down and started from scratch. Lets start small, namely Earth (which I will wholly agree is not worth saving and we should just let Galactus eat the planet) pointing out the various ways the government and the public target and demonize the heroes (X-Men has Days of Future Past/Operation: Zero Tolerance, Genosha when it was anti-mutant, etc., and J. Jonah Jameson's persecution of Spider-Man sometimes extending to other superheroes depending on the writer, and more recent examples such as Civil War and Dark Reign.

After that, we can start spreading out to the various other civilizations in the galaxy, with the Shi'ar, the Kree, and Skrulls, nearly all of whom are expansionist imperialists who conquer you without a second thought. Following this, if we can start providing specific examples of where they appear, we can include the whole Eldritch Abominations and jerkass cosmic forces. And can someone please tell us where that "God committed suicide to form reality" thing came from? I've never heard of that before I came to this site.
SFH
12:24:42 PM Feb 6th 2011
Still kind of wall of texty, but it reads a little better than the old entry, and at least it cites various sources. If you want to put it in, go ahead. — ~~~~
BizarroHulk
01:27:18 PM Feb 7th 2011
edited by BizarroHulk
Seriously, I don't want an Edit War over this, but the new entry is actually worse than the one I deleted before. I've removed the most contentious paragraphs, which smacked of Take That, soapboxing and justifying edits, but it's still far too long and extremely biased. Crapsack World is not a subjective trope - if you're potholing to pages like Face Palm, Wall Banger and Did Not Do The Research, you're doing it wrong.

Oh, and as regards the earlier post which took my name in vain - the part about my having no edit history prior to deleting this entry is simply incorrect. I created the Stan Lee page and completely rewrote the Daredevil page (which in its original form consisted of about three short paragraphs and some unnecessary snark) as well as providing numerous examples on other trope pages. Ironically, this included an entry for the Wildstorm Universe on the Crapsack World page which was subsequently deleted without explanation - despite the WSU being far more crapsack than the Marvel Universe. Also, and unfortunately, I'm not employed by Marvel comics.

I admit I screwed up by not referring to the Discussion page in the first instance, but my gut reaction on reading the entry was that it was completely unsalvagable for all the reasons I already stated. My biggest problem with it was it smacked heavily of Complaining About Shows You Don't Like - for example, criticism of the writers' treatment of mental illness, whether justified or not, is irrelevant to the trope under discussion. That's what Headscratchers is for.
Fighteer
moderator
10:01:08 AM Feb 10th 2011
"tavas"/"natsu"/"antvasima", please stop ban evading in a pathetic attempt to edit this wiki.
Fighteer
moderator
12:14:59 PM Feb 10th 2011
Antvasima, you are forbidden from ever participating in the wiki again, by any handle. That is the final judgement of the mods. Making new handles every time we disable one is not helping your case. Go away.
CrypticMirror
12:44:17 PM Feb 10th 2011
edited by CrypticMirror
Actually I'm far more of a Genma fan. Regardless of what you think of me, there is a forum thread. for you to put your side of things rather than in discussion pages or making new handles. If you explain things there, maybe it will help.

Fighteer
moderator
01:15:13 PM Feb 10th 2011
Not debating with you anymore. And Eddie is the one who decided all this. I'm just his "puppet mouthpiece" in this respect. Dude, go get some help for your mental issues.
Jordan
02:42:18 PM Feb 10th 2011
@Two Gun Angel- Good job condensing the Marvel example. Sounds good.
Nezumi
09:14:46 PM Apr 26th 2011
Uhm... What did I miss?
Darchane
12:48:53 AM May 24th 2011
Nothing worthwhile.
75.110.108.57
topic
10:10:46 PM May 21st 2010
I think that we should go back to having "Crapsack World" and "World Half Empty" as separate tropes. They are very different concepts. A Crapsack World is a horrible place to live in, but isn't necessarily immutable or unsurvivable. A World Half Empty is a world in which there's no hope and anything that anyone does to attempt to improve things will result in failure, things getting worse, death, etc. I thought they were much better as different pages.
AnonymousMcCartneyfan
10:38:21 PM May 21st 2010
Agreed, though we will then need to do a clean-up on the scale of The Messiah to Messianic Archetype. Still, I do want World Half Empty, with its more-or-less original connotation, back.
WascallyWabbit
07:17:52 AM May 27th 2010
They were merged because it was completely impossible to keep the two seperate. No point in having two seperate pages if 99.9% of the examples were the same, all of the other pages used the two interchangably and nobody could really agree on what the differeance even was.

The split suggested by 75.110.108.57 is not a definition that existed before. It was 'one is comic and one is serious'.
Austin
02:57:25 PM Jul 18th 2010
That's not how I remember it. I remember it being defined pretty clearly as the original poster said.
Earnest
04:42:53 PM Jul 18th 2010
The definitions weren't the problem, they kept getting confused or used as synonyms both in the inbound links and examples. It got so bad that keeping them separate was deemed unfeasible because it would have required constant monitoring of the inbound links as well as examples.

Still, the Trope Repair Shop would probably be a better place to re-hash this out.
ElectricNova
01:34:52 PM Oct 29th 2012
Doctor who should not be here, it doesn't fit the trope at all.

People who are good in doctor are generally rewarded and those who do bad things get killed off usually. And the show has too much of an optimistic tone for this.
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