Discussion Main / BoobsofSteel

I agree with that. Personally, I disagree with disambaguating the trope outright, think just deleting the examples that didn't count towards the original definition(busty women who are PHYSICAL powerhouses a la martial artists or swordsmen) would have been enough.

If you ever decide to take this to TLP to salvage the trope, you got my support.

You can put the idea in the Salvage Yard if you want.

I agree. The fundamental premise of "among a group of female characters, the one with the largest bust is likely to be the strongest physical fighter" is eminently tropeworthy, and the the Analysis page for Boobs of Steel had some excellent insight into why this is. The idea of biggest bust belonging to the strongest magical fighter could be an inversion or other Playing With, if not a trope in it's own right (Lulu from Final Fantasy X is the only example I can think of off the top of my head). Maybe "Busty Brawny Beauty?"

Well, I recently tried making new tropes for it in the TLP (one for brawn, one for magic), but both were rejected. Here's part of a message I received on why.

Remember that any "looks like X and is X" trope needs to have more to it than being a list of any character with both those traits.

Remember: People Sit on Chairs and No Lewdness, No Prudishness

How were the examples written? I could see needing more detail, for instance:

• Cobra Kai: Tory Nichols is the bustiest female on the show, and one of the strongest fighters.

Versus:

• Cobra Kai: Tory Nichols is one of the top fighters in the cast, with only fellow aces like Miguel, Robby, and Samantha able to give her a hard time in a fight. Tory is also one of the taller women, and one of the bustiest. This contrasts her with her rival Samantha LaRusso, who is shorter and much more slender, appropriate to Tory being Strong, but Unskilled and Sam being Weak, but Skilled. Whenever Sam and Tory fight, Sam wins only when she can bring her superior technique to bear. When she can't (due to trauma in Season 3 and Tory working hard to close the skill gap in Season 4), Tory has the advantage as the larger, stronger, more powerful fighter.

The first is basically a Zero Context Example, so not really acceptable, the second provides more detail as to why Tory being "larger" in more than one sense informs her character and role in the show. That said, I'm personally against cutting drafts just because they aren't up to snuff, the point should be to help get them there, not just axe it prematurely. But that's part of a wider discussion of my general displeasure with the direction this wiki has been moving in and is beyond the scope of this conversation.

The description for a proposed redo of the trope I would do would be something like this:

In a cast of multiple characters, there is a strong tendency to diverge their design to reflect their skills. Among a group of female characters, the tendency is to give the strongest physical fighter the largest bosom.

There are a few reasons for this design choice. It might be due to the belief that a woman with realistic bulging muscles would not be seen as attractive, so giving her a more toned body style but increasing the size of her bust still evokes a Heroic Build. In real life, the trope can be played straight or inverted: developing upper body strength, particularly of the pectoral muscles, can act as a natural push-up bra, lifting and pushing out the breasts. At the same time, increased muscle mass usually goes hand-in-hand with decreased body fat percentage, and since the breasts are made up of fatty tissue, lots of muscles can dramatically decrease breast size. (Some female bodybuilders exhibit this, though some also get breast implants to invoke the trope). Large breasts can also be a physical hindrance, making rapid movement and certain kinds of acrobatics difficult, tying the idea of a buxom female to a very muscular male both falling under Mighty Glacier — very strong, but not quick.

The contrast would be to have a strong female physical fighter with a large or above-average bosom, compared in the same work with a weaker female character with a small or below-average bosom. The larger-breasted woman likely falls under Strong, but Unskilled or Strong and Skilled, while the smaller-chested lady may be Weak, but Skilled, use Waif-Fu, or be a magic-user or Damsel in Distress. The more slender build, including in the chest, may be a sign of lack of physical fitness (implying the less-busty character develops her mind over her body) or of speed and agility (making her a Fragile Speedster compared to the bustier woman's Lightning Bruiser or Mighty Glacier). Inverting the trope would be done in one of two ways: Either the most physically powerful female character has the smallest bust (as noted above, perhaps through a more realistic bodybuilder-style design), or having the character with the largest bosom be physically weak but powerful in some other way (usually though magic).

The examples I would go with to start:

• The DCU:
  • The canonical second-largest but most famous bust in the superhero community belongs to Diana Prince, Wonder Woman. As an Amazon, super-powered even be the standards of her super-powered people, Diana is, Depending on the Writer, a powerhouse approaching Superman's levels. The modern take is that, while Diana may not be quite as strong or tough as Clark, she is a vastly superior fighter, meaning if the two ever had a real fight, it would be a coin toss which one would prevail. Diana is also blessed by several of the Greek Gods, including Aphrodite, meaning she is literally supernaturally beautiful.
  • The canonical largest but second-most famous bust belongs to Power Girl. Kara Zor-L from an alternate universe, Power Girl is as powerful as any other Kryptonian under a yellow sun, meaning she's at the top level of strength and toughness alongside Superman and Supergirl. Power Girl's huge breasts are such an iconic part of her character that attempts to remove her costume's Cleavage Window have been soundly rejected by her fans, male and female alike. While Power Girl has male fans for obvious reasons, she has several female fans who love that the character is unapologetically gorgeous, sexy, smart, tough, and powerful, and will brutally school any villain who dismisses her as "a dumb blonde with big tits."

• Final Fantasy VII: Three female party members are available. Aerith has a soft, slender build fitting her White Magician Girl role and personality. Yuffie is a bit more toned but still skinny, fitting her Waif-Fu fighting style and energetic personality. Tifa is the martial arts expert, fighting with her fists and feet, and while her muscle tone is usually similar to Yuffie's Tifa has a bust about three times the size of either of the other women. Tifa can also be one of the more straight-up powerful party members to bring along — notably, her Limit Break works differently from anyone else's. While everyone gets access to generally more powerful limit breaks to use as the game progresses, they have to choose which one to use at any given time. Tifa's just keeps adding one on top of the other, letting her unleash a devastating combo attack by the endgame.

The point would be to not just point out "character X is a fighter and also has big boobs," to show how their status as a physical powerhouse is linked to their bust size, that it's a deliberate design decision to make them look powerful but also feminine, and how that contrasts with other characters in the same work who are less chesty and have less physical strength.

Description pruned in Trope Repair Shop: Link if you're interested.

I vote against this disam.

"in a GROUP OR CAST". Multiple characters in the same universe can be in this trope as long they're part of a team or run where they fit the perimeters of the trope.

For example Caitlin Fairchild is definitely not the strongest and bustiest superheroine of in the DCU but she is those things in Gen13.

Katharsis from the The Movement (which is a dc book so I'm not sure why that's in the other category), not the strongest and bustiest superheroine of in the DCU but she is when she's in The Movement.

Examples have to have context that state these things.

Which as I said, Wonder Woman has her own series, and shows up frequently in Justice League, Whereas Starfire is mostly only in Teen Titans/ Outlaws, and Powergirl in Superman/Earth 2 books. While they are all in the same universe, how often do you see Wonder Woman fight side by side with Powergirl or Starfire?

Like I said

"Examples have to have context that state these things."

• Wonder Woman who was once stated to have the second largest bust in the entire DCU after Power Girl.

Does not tell the reader that Wonder Woman is the strongest and bustiest heroine in her book or when she's on the justice league.

So if we can give context, its ok?

Yes, but Examples MUST state that the character is the bustiest AND strongest female of the cast of the work or a team.

So would changing it to "Wonder Woman, of Justice League fame, was once stated to have the second largest bust in the entire DCU after Power Girl." be ok?

No, that example say nothing about how strong wonder woman or in which cases is she the strongest and bustiest.

Not really. From the very first movie, she was known for having the look of a Lad-ette, but there are plenty of Lad-ettes on the list, and many of them have been known to be well-endowed. Thing is, being a Lad-ette doesn't exclude a lady from having Boobs of Steel so long as she can back it up, and Callahan has shown she can back it up.

She's the only one with noticeable breasts among the three and is wearing gloves, signifying she's a brawler. Aerith and Yuffie have different weapons and not particularly notable assets. It was chosen in an Image Pickin' thread.

There's also some Truth in Television in that most women with larger cup sizes tend to have bigger builds as well as more muscle mass. Women with petite builds typically have a smaller bust.