It does not have to be a character. Never, in the nearly 20 years that this definition has been on the wiki has there been a requirement that it be a character. The "omnipresent" aspect is in fact the core of the definition, with a villainous character being only one possible type of manifestation.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. — H.L. Mencken
I didn't say that this wiki previously had a requirement that a Big Bad had to be a character. I said that people don't use the phrase "Big Bad" to describe non-character entities in practice.
For instance, when discussing the movie Armageddon, nobody says "The asteroid is the Big Bad of this movie". But when people discuss Star Wars, they say "Palpatine is the Big Bad of Star Wars".
A quick glance at the examples confirms this. Armageddon is not listed here, even though the asteroid fits the given description for "Big Bad". The Day After Tomorrow is not listed, even though the climate disaster is the "Big Bad" there. 2012 is not listed, even though the neutrino nonsense is the "Big Bad" in that case. World War Z is not listed, even though the virus that causes the zombie apocalypse is the "Big Bad" there.
There are entries with Big Bads who don't have minions, e.g. Halloween. But it appears that most people have in fact decided that the Big Bad must at least be a character, even though the description says that's not a requirement.
So I think we should change the description to match the examples.
Never, never drift the description to incorporate the examples. We call that "chasing the examples." People — writers in series writer rooms, in fact — do use this term to describe the impetus of conflict.
Edited by eyebones For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. — H.L. Mencken
Evan T Clarke
Is a jerkass and big bad similar? Are they the same? Perhaps there should be a link between these pages. In some stories like Dirty Objects from Thomas and Friends yes, James arguably was causing some bad stuff to happen yet he is still on the good side.
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Needs Help
, started by Anddrix on Dec 29th 2016 at 9:22:59 PM
Can a Hero Antagonist qualify as a Big Bad of a story?
Hide / Show Replies
Well, Boichirou Yamato is considered both a Hero Antagonist and the Big Bad of Demon King Daimao. (Although he is also a bit of a Well-Intentioned Extremist, so there is some overlap.)
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
BerserkButton: misusing BerserkButton
Where to I put the villain of a Fan Web Comic ? The subpage is named "Fan FICTION", not "Fan WORKS", so I don't know if I can put it there…
Hide / Show Replies
I wabt to make a new Theatre section. I csn currently only think of five examples. Shoukd I make a new subpage, or just a folder?
Hide / Show Replies
New folder.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Chaotic Greedy
Due to the prevalence of the full name "Big Bad Evil Guy" in the tabletop RPG community, I wonder if we should change the Main.Big Bad Evil Guy redirect from Main.Big Bad to BigBad.Tabletop Games...
Edited by 213.223.65.98 "And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die." Hide / Show Replies
Frankly, this seems like a case for YKTTW.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Who is the Big Bad of Carrie.?
Chris Hargensen, Margaret White or Carrie White?
In the page says Chris, but I'm not really sure if she qualify as Big Bad.
Hide / Show Replies
I think that Chris and Margaret form a Big Bad Ensemble, both antagonising Carrie while being unrelated to each other, and there's no single Big Bad. But if I had to choose, I'd say it's Chris because she's the one who is actively moving the plot forward.
GammaWALLE
Have you all gone MAD!?! What about the Big Bads of the Star Wars Movies?
Hide / Show Replies
What about them? Oh, and last I checked, Star Wars (at least the movies) had one Big Bad, Palpatine. All of the other villains (except Jabba) were his servants and/or pawns.
''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us..."
Are Brainiac and Willow examples of Big bads?
I ask because Imperiex and Warren are the main threats in most of the season, before being killed by Brainiac and Willow respectively.
So I'm not sure if they are the Big Bads or just the Final Bosses.
Big Bad simply means the one causing the conflict, so I don't understand why there aren't any real life examples.
Hide / Show Replies
Rarely if ever can real-life conflicts be said to be "entirely caused" by one person. To allow for Real Life examples here would only invite gross oversimplification of sensitive issues which might cause offence.
Unwinning Ranger
There's this big list of One Piece Big Bads per story arc, but half of them hardly-to-not qualify as Big Bads at all. For example, all supposed Big Bads in the Baroque Works saga all answer to Crocodile, so they shouldn't have any Big Bad status. Anyone have anything to add on this?
Stargate SG-1 Let's Watch. Because my ZHP thing failed. Hide / Show Replies
/delete them. If they don't qualify, if they aren't the BIG bad, the guy behind it all, then get rid of them. They don't belong here. They sound more like the Quirky Miniboss Squad.
Until death do we part
Dartz isn't a regular follower of the Orichalcos God, and not even its Dragon. You can't seperate Dartz and the Orichalcos God, because until their defeat, Dartz is essentially the Orichalcos God personified(they even fuse into a single being in the arc's final battle). It's pretty much like Bakura and Zorc in the Memory World arc, so I think we should be consistent with it. So, what do you think? Should we list Dartz and the Orichalcos God for Doma and Bakura and Zorc for the Memory world? Or only the Orichalcos God for Doma and only Zorc for the Memory World?
Hide / Show Replies
As you noted, Dartz was not a single being with the Orihalcos God before of the final battle. The motive that Yami Bakura can be considered equal with Zorc is because Yami Bakura IS Zorc
But again, it's the nearly same thing here, until the end of the arc, Dartz is essentially the Orichalcos God in human form. Dartz is the one that moves the plot, and even when the the Orichalcos God is summoned Dartz is still part of it. The Orichalcos God is just a voiceless monster with no real motivation without Dartz to define it.
Oh, this only means that Dartz can be considered the Big Bad and the Orihalcos God the Bigger Bad- but the two are not in equal standing, by this if the Orihalcos God can be listed as the arc Big Bad, Dartz is not the Big Bad. If Dartz is the Big Bad, this means that his master-the Orihalcos God is not sufficiently important/active to qualify as the arc Big Bad. Read Bigger Bad.
Edited by MagBas
Already did actually. But I'm not sure that the Orichalcos God qualifies, as it seems to be about things that aren't really part of the plot. If I had to define the Big Bad and Bigger Bad of Doma, I would say that Humanity's inner darkness is the Bigger Bad, Dartz is the Big Bad, and the Orichalcos God is something weird in between, too involved to be the Bigger Bad but not involved enough to be the Big Bad.
Humanity's inner darkness is not the Bigger Bad. Dartz was just tricked into believing that. The Orichalcos feeds on the darkness within human hearts but that only means that the Orichalcos is the Bigger Bad, since despite what Dartz believes humans are not defined by that inner darkness, and there is more going on within them. The Orichalcos both feeds upon and amplifies it, warping the victim. The Orichalcos God is something different- its a creation of the Orichalcos, and Dartz treats it as some kind of beloved pet, though he's deluded and doesn't realise he is a pawn.
I think Trope Decay is starting to work its way into the page and there are too many examples that need to be removed or rewritten here. I just changed a line:
- The Time Paradox: Damon Kronski and then: Opal Koboi
- The Time Paradox: Opal Koboi
Are there only a few problems with this on this page or does it have to go to the Trope Repair Shop?
Edited by tenoreyequetis
I think it's about time we start sub-dividing the examples of this trope into their own pages like Magnificent Bastard and Complete Monster are. It's gotten really big. The Dragon should be too.
Personally, I cannot think of a better Big Bad for the title image than Palpatine, but I thought I'd open the floor for anyone who can think of someone more appropriate.
Why is the title of this page "B Ig Bad" instead of just "Big Bad"?
Hide / Show Replies
They're the same. It's all covered under The Problem with Pen Island.
Edited by AnonymousMcCartneyfan There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
I feel like a "Big Bad" is a villain in a leadership position who's ultimately responsible for most of the bad stuff in the story.
I don't think anyone would refer to "an omnipresent situation, such as a comet heading towards the Earth" as a Big Bad. It has to be a character.
And it's not enough to just be a serial killer in a slasher fic. Sure, that guy is the source of evil in the story, but he's not a Big Bad, because he's not a leader. A true Big Bad has minions or lieutenants of some sort.
So I don't think the description really matches what most people would call a "Big Bad".
Hide / Show Replies