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Gerusz
topic
01:51:32 PM May 20th 2010
Isn't the disclaimer actually an invocation of the trope? I mean... disbelievers won't get offended by this trope, so it's clearly aimed at believers. However, it assumes that believers will completely miss the point and get offended by a trope. Which in itself is this trope. Kind of a Mind Screw actually...
TrevMUN
11:51:58 PM Jun 14th 2010
Not really. Without the disclaimer, Atheist fundies and other anti-religious types would jump to the conclusion that TV Tropes "obviously" supports bashing the religious beliefs of others, and try to act on that conclusion by filling the page with Take Thats toward religious people of all kinds.

Even with the disclaimer, it still happens now and then, sometimes by deliberate trolls, other times by people who honestly believe what they're writing and are looking to use TV Tropes as a soapbox to push their nasty opinions of others' beliefs as the site's own.
muninn
01:25:10 PM Jun 22nd 2010
edited by muninn
Could we make the disclaimer shorter (or at least put it after the description?). The current disclaimer has three paragraphs, each of which could probably serve as the disclaimer just by itself.
MCE
02:19:02 AM Aug 9th 2010
edited by MCE
I still think we should keep the "Okay. Full stop." part which has currently been replaced with "Faith, being belief in something that cannot be proven, can make people act against their own best interests."

Edit: restored original wording and moved second phrase to Laconic.

edit edit: you could put the disclaimer in a hot tip or folder.
SomeGuy
08:03:04 AM Aug 9th 2010
I don't think we're giving our readers enough credit. The disclaimer is longer than the actual trope description, and that's just plain silly. A short one at the end of the article should get the point across. Edited to reflect this sentiment.
MCE
03:38:50 AM Aug 10th 2010
Here's a copy of the disclaimer just I case some one does decide to put it in a folder or a hot tip

Okay. Full stop

Given that flame wars and indeed even real wars can begin with the act of trying to refute something someone has spent their whole life believing, we feel the need to preface this trope with some clarifications and ground rules.

This is NOT a profession of TV Tropes' own ideas about religion. TV Tropes is secular, meaning that we're a theological Switzerland (and we really don't care what you believe.) Belief Makes You Stupid is about a Trope; and due to the nature, acrimony, and general fussing brought about by bring this into Real Life examples, we are putting out this warning.

WARNING: This is a trope about fictional examples of religion, and how they relate to fictional physics, magic, or technologies - please don't use it to snipe at real-world religions. Not even that one. You know the one I mean. Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment and all that.

Owlor
03:27:48 PM Jul 18th 2011
I find it kinda interesting that this page apprently needs a big disclaimer, but Hollywood Atheist doesn't. Apprently it's oaky to take swipes agianst atheists, but not against religious people. And I doupt that the fact that there is no such disclaimer over the hollywood atheist trope is because its not needed, because I see several times here real-life people being described as "Hollywood Atheists", even though the trope is only about how atheists are represented in fiction.

I can't help but feel like there's a double standard here, espescially considering that non-religious people are a pretty small minority. Either have a similar disclaimer for both tropes or don't have one at all. I understand that it is a thouchy subject, so a disclaimer might be necessery, however, I see no reason why the religious side should get more protection.
thenewchick
12:09:45 AM Aug 13th 2011
Its fine the way it is.
TrevMUN
09:40:56 AM Oct 17th 2011
edited by TrevMUN
Owlor, what's actually interesting is that what you're seeing is the result of atheist and anti-religious tropers themselves, and that you're calling it a double standard.

The reason "Hollywood Atheist" was getting used for "Real Life" examples was due to fallout from The Fundamentalist article. Originally, that article covered fundamentalists of all types, including religious and anti-religious people. However, it got hit by a large group of Unknown Tropers (this was before TV Tropes used the current discussion system and required people to Get Known to edit) who repeatedly removed all references to atheism—and I'm talking in the preface as well as examples—with edit reasons such as "Removing theist propaganda."

Eventually, all mention of atheist and anti-religious flavors of fundies were removed from the article, and instead a brief blurb saying something like "See Hollywood Atheist for the non-religious equivalent" was added. Thankfully, Hollywood Atheist and The Fundamentalist have since changed/are undergoing TRS discussion to fix all that.
Stoogebie
02:52:53 PM Apr 2nd 2012
And also to Owlor, it's funny how you should say that (I'm trying really hard not to sound like a jerk), because this is what I thought of Hollywood Atheist, only the other way around. Honestly, I think we can both admit that the two sides are Not So Different, with both having their fanatics, their assholes, and their Vocal Minority.
SotiCoto
06:59:36 AM Apr 3rd 2012
Screw playing "happy families" or paperwalking. Saying this is about the trope being used in fiction should be enough. The trope is not the same as the underlying assumption behind the trope, and THAT is why there shouldn't be real-life examples.

Shouldn't have anything to do with whether people are offended or not. It isn't like any beliefs are intrinsically deserving of respect. Being easily offended is a sign of stupidity itself.
DCC
03:32:44 PM Jun 15th 2012
If being easily offended is a sign of stupidity, then you can automatically prove religious believers—or anyone else!—is stupid. Just say they're stupid. Either they don't object, and implicitly prove your point (after all, nobody put up any counterarguments, did they)—or they object, in which case they were offended, which also proves your point. It's unfalsifiable.

There is a third possibility—people usually get offended when you insult them. Whether the insult is deserved or not. So their objections aren't evidence either way as to the truth of the insult.

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