Main Bad Ass Israeli Discussion

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MissThunderfoot
Topic
04:42:00 PM Jun 21st 2016
How about Gene Simmons, from Kiss? He's a badass Jewish boy from Israel.
jormis29
08:02:27 PM Jun 21st 2016
This page is not to list every famous Israeli it about those with fighting skills. Simmons is not exactly known for his fighting skills.
desdendelle
Topic
10:49:08 AM Feb 22nd 2016
I'm moving the following examples here because they seem like "badass Jew" to me, which is not what this trope is about.

  • Before modern Israel was created, Jews sometimes achieved a reputation for toughness that belies the Jewish and Nerdy stereotype:
    • Jewish mercenaries were highly prized during ancient times.
    • The Romans needed 12 legions and a comparable auxiliary force to take down the Bar Kokhba revolt. The first time Rome had to use the army dislocated on the Parthian border, that just happened to be the best troops they had. Using their four best legions, an auxiliary force just as big and reinforcements from allied countries, it took them four years to destroy the Jewish armies and another four to stop the survivors from attacking them. The second time, the Jewish revolt forced them to abandon their campaign against the Parthians when on the verge of conquering them. Given their genocidal approach to revolts and what had cost them the first two times, it just makes sense they'd use overwhelming force.
    • Hanukkah is the story of a Jewish rebel army led by Judah Maccabee (Judah the Hammer) who staged a successful revolution against the much larger and stronger Syrian Greek empire. The rabbis of the Talmud made the oil lasting for 8 days be the miracle because they didn't like the idea of a holiday about killing people.
    • In the 15th and 16th centuries, Jews achieved a reputation for being expert grapplers within the German school of fencing. There were a number of Jewish ringen masters, including Ott Jud.
    • The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, in which the Jews who had been rounded up into Warsaw fought back against the Germans. In spite of being severely outgunned, the resistance lasted several months before finally being crushed by the German army. The Israeli Holocaust Memorial day is commemorated every year on the same day as the outbreak of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.
    • The Battle of Cable Street in 1938 saw London's Jews mobilising to prevent a pro-Nazi rally marching through a predominantly Jewish area. The British Union of Fascists wanted a provocative march as a method of intimidating Jews. British authorities held that the Fascists had a democratic right to free expression. Lots of policemen were deployed to allow them to march. Local Jewish organisations disagreed and mobilised, putting both to flight and preventing the march, in two days of riots and streetfighting.
SeptimusHeap
02:31:21 AM Feb 23rd 2016
Yes, this trope is about modern Israel, anything before that is shoehorning.
WickedIcon
Topic
10:22:27 PM Aug 30th 2015
Should we possibly have a No Real Life Examples, Please! note on this? The morality of the IDF is... highly disputed, to say the least.
SeptimusHeap
11:52:08 PM Aug 30th 2015
Maybe but keep in mind the trope is about individuals, not the IDF as a whole. And it's about fighting skills, not necessarily the morality either.
MithrandirOlorin
Topic
07:09:48 PM Jan 24th 2015
edited by MithrandirOlorin
I've seen it mentioned on forums that there is good reason to suspect Levi of Attack on Titan might have Israeli ancestry.

If so, it's make him the only Anime or Manga example.
SeptimusHeap
02:07:28 AM Jan 25th 2015
"Is maybe Israeli" even if true is not enough to make this trope.
WickedIcon
10:20:37 PM Aug 30th 2015
I mean, we're not even sure if Israel exists or has ever existed in the Ao T universe...
ginsengaddict
Topic
08:36:21 PM Mar 28th 2011
edited by ginsengaddict
In order to avert an Edit War, I'm going to bring this up here, and invite [[troper:Penzilla]] the chance to make their arguments in a structured environment.

The issue is an example in the Bible section of the trope, regarding whether or not Jael had sex with Sisera before killing him. I believe she did in fact have sex with him, given the context, while Penzilla says otherwise on account of there being no direct reference to sex (in English) in the verse where the assassination took place.

Now, for the purposes of this trope, I would say that if Jael did not sleep with Sisera, she doesn't qualify for the Badass Israeli trope, on account of the fact that all of the sexual dominance of a woman over-powering a hated man is sapped out, and we're left with a basic vamp.

On that note, i say she does qualify for the trope, due to the context of the story. She is shown to be a strong, gutsy and even borderline promiscuous woman by biblical standards (coming out of her tent to invite a lone man in - very strong sexual overtone). Furthermore, the actual translation of verse 8 of the passage says she "covered him." The general consensus among scholars is that she covered him with a blanket, akin to "tucking him in." However, the actual Hebrew word used is a mystery - nobody really knows what it means. I agree with the scholars who claim she 'covered him' with her own body, because the order in which these events happen is:

1: she "cover(s) him" 2: she "(gives) him milk" 3: she "cover(s) him" AGAIN

It doesn't make sense. If "covered him" means "tucking him in", why would she do that BEFORE feeding him, and then tucking him in a second time??? Of course, this makes complete sense when "covered him" refers to sexual activity. They had sex, took a break and had something to drink, then had more sex. Perfectly reasonable.

As for context, Sisera has just lost a major battle and is running for his life. The passage makes a point of mentioning that Jael's husband, Heber, is on good terms with his king and so he would run in this direction to find shelter - traditionally, he would've gone straight to Heber's tent, but Jael comes out and invites him into her own, alone - this is actually very odd and promiscuous behaviour for a married woman of that time. Typically in the bible, whenever a man and a woman are alone together, they have sex - It Makes Sense in Context that the same would happen here.

Furthermore, I've heard all the arguments that the story is about the power of maternal action and that Sisera is rendered as helpless as a child by Jael... I don't buy it - Sisera is a general of an army that has been oppressing Israel for 20 years and he's now on the run for his life - I honestly don't think he planned to stay at Heber's very long, and "motherly hospitality" will not convince him to stay. Sex might. It's a well-known fact that men tend to fall asleep after sex, and Sisera would have been trying to avoid sleep, being on the run for his life - but sex might actually tire him out enough for Jael to deliver the blow.

As a final note, before Sisera does go to sleep, he tells Jael to "stand" at the door and if anyone asks "is a man here?", to tell them "no." This is amusing, because Sisera actually orders Jael as if he were ordering a soldier, a very masculine order. It's also amusing, because he's implied that there is no longer any masculine presence left in the room, because Jael has become dominant and Sisera has been reduced to an effeminate shell of a man - further reinforcing the theme of female dominance.

Penzilla, your response?
MithrandirOlorin
03:05:32 AM Feb 1st 2015
I find your analysis pretty interesting. I wonder if you'd mind me copy/pasteing some of this and crediting you for a spot on a Blog I have in part dedicated to trying to get people to rethink their assumptions about the Sexual morality of The Bible? http://solascripturachristianliberty.blogspot.com/search/label/Sexual%20Morality
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Main.BadAssIsraeli