Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Needs Intervention
, started by ShivaIndis on Mar 30th 2011 at 8:05:20 AM
A whole bunch of examples have been commented out and accused of being zero context in the Video Games folder. Most of them had at least some context, some nearly a paragraph, and most of them are definitely examples. What extra context is needed? Do all examples need an image link now or something?
Edited by MysteriousStranger
It's something that bothers me. Shounen is a boy from ages 13 and up until 18, biseinen are pretty men 18+. Still many puts Bishōnen on 18+ characters, some even say they're especially bishonen at that age. We must make it clearer with that difference.
Although annoying does it remind me of my cousin when he was 4 as claimed that he was a man while his father had to be a boy which makes it funny as well.
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It actually makes sense considering the phrase "pretty boy" gets applied to plenty of people 18+.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Should there not be two or more "types" of Bishounen? I've read several tropes, and the term seems to be used for two distinct character types, both prevalent in shoujo and Yaoi. The first, the one best described here, has Tareme Eyes, is extremely effeminate, really cute, and tends to also take on relationship characteristics classically associated with girls, thus tending toward Uke.
The other type tends to have Tsurime Eyes or a Clint Squint, is somewhat more masculine in appearance, and is particularly characterized by the cold, aggressive and dominating Seme-type appearance. This type is often arrogant and suave to creepy levels. I've seen many in this B type grab a woman, look deep into her eyes, and suddenly the woman loses all ability to say no, even if she hates him with all her soul. This type often leans toward Bastard Boyfriend, but as I said, one look tends to make everything consensual, no matter how much the girl hates him.
iRidescence
The main page defines "Bishonen" as a term for Pretty Boy in East Asian Media. If there's really no other distinction between the two tropes, why should they remain separate? I mean, Kuudere is listed as a fanspeak term for Sugar-and-Ice Personality since they are not too distinguished, and thus the former page have no examples. The same goes for the distaff counterpart of this trope, Bishojo. So why should Bishonen be any different? It seems to be thrown around for any guys that appears youthful and hot anyway.
Edited by 69.172.221.8 Hide / Show Replies
That confuses me as well. I actually find it a little racist to have a trope that is pretty much "Pretty Boy but for eastern people"... For that matter, that's what the laconic entry in Bishonen says. O.o
Edited by 190.96.181.187
There are quite similar, but i'm pretty sure there is a subtle difference but I can't remember it... It might be more Dude Looks Like a Lady for Bishonen while a Pretty Boy is still more clearly masculine.
The difference is to some degree in cultural baggage. Also, it plays into the Japanese/non-Japanese trope divide that has created some serious debates in the past, which is why people are reticent at reopening it. There was discussion on the other discussion page.
Can a bishonen also be muscular? Or is being androgynous a requirement?
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I believe being androgynous is a requirement; bulky muscles would disqualify them.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
In which case i think Tidus is a little to muscular to count.
Also Mello in Death Note seems to wear shirts that in live action only a Muscular Upper bodied fellow would wear.
It seems to me this is clearly the Spear Counterpart of Bifauxnen, but it isn't mentioned as such in the main description, usually the Counterparts are listed.
My Namesakes
I propose "Girly Man" as an alternate title for English speakers.
"Think like a man of action, act like a man of thinking, and don't be a dumbass." Hide / Show Replies
I'd go with the direct translation, "beautiful boy". The traditional bishounen is more androgenous than girly.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
What happened to most of the examples on the page. They were deleted.
— Somebody wiped all the Real Life examples. I don't know whether this was because "there's no such thing in real life", or because the examples were getting too nebulous and/or controversial.
Edited by Maven
Looks like a troll. I'm not all that familiar with the original page, so I'm not quite sure where everything went originally.
Judging by the formatting errors and the page history (as well as the lack of any sort of malicious looking additions), I'm guessing it was an editing error. Anyways, it reverted most of the page. Anyone else is welcome to check for what I missed.
"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo
This girly man translation is completely off. First off, in the modern Japanese langague, the word shônen refers only to young boys, who aren't adults.
As for the girly part, I checked some Japanese- English dictionaries online, here's what I found as translations for bishônen:
びしょうねん 美少年 a handsome (young) boy; a good‐looking young man.
美少年
読み方：びしょうねん
（名詞） handsome youth
And what I found for bishôjo :
びしょうじょ 美少女 a beautiful [pretty, good‐looking, lovely] (young) girl.
The translations are from ejje dot weblio dot jp
Notice how bishônen is translated as meaning good looking/ handsome boy/youth, while bishôjo is translated as meaning pretty/ good-looking/ lovely girl.
Note: In the past, before the word bishôjo was invented around a 100 years ago, the word shônen (usually refers to boys ages 6 to 18 nowadays), and bishônen were used for children and teenagers of -both- genders, the original meaning of shônen being youth, not boy.
Edited by flyingdutchman57
FYI: First of all, "Bishōnen" translates essentially to "pretty boy". If you would describe them as "pretty boy," they are this trope. Bishonen can't be "boy who looks like a girl" or "girly boy" because...what the hell does that mean for Bifauxnen? "Girl who looks like a boy who looks like a girl"?! Then technically, she would...look like a girl.
This is a supertrope, isn't it? I think we ought to remove the Pretty Boy page, talk to Fast Eddie, and ask him about this.
Wasn't there a Real Life subsection for this page just a little while ago? What happened to it? If someone just up and deleted it I would say that that is pretty unacceptable behavior and it should be restored at once.
EDIT: Oh, it's in Troper Tales now. That's a relief. Never mind then.
Edited by GFR2K10
Because I'm too lazy to make an account (and will probably mess something up horribly), does anyone feel like putting Axios from the DS game The Glory of Heracles in there? He talks about how pretty he is all the time. The unnamed protagonist would probably fit the bill, too.
My Namesakes
Continuing the discussion from the top of the page. We need an alternate title for English speakers. I propose, "Beautiful Boy".
"Think like a man of action, act like a man of thinking, and don't be a dumbass."
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Would I be correct in my assumption that this trope is mutually exclusive by definition with Perma-Stubble and Carpet of Virility?
Edited by MarqFJA Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus. Hide / Show Replies
Not even counting for 20-something-year-old Biseinen? Or even (optionally Rated M for Manly) Badass Biseinen?
What would be a typical Biseinen look, anyway?
Edited by MarqFJA Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
The guy we have up for Seme is usually what your typical Biseinen looks like. Typically, they're just as clean-shaven as their teenage counterparts.
"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo
Okay, Perma-Stubble is definitely out. Is there no way to combine Biseinen with Carpet of Virility?
And do Rated M for Manly Biseinen exist?
Edited by MarqFJA Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Considering how hard it is to find anime guys with chest hair at all, I'm presuming that it's never really happened in any professionally made series.
As for Rated M for Manly bishonen/biseinen, those actually do exist, in a certain manner. The strategy seems to be to make them bishonen in appearence while hypermasculine, Hot-Blooded, and over-the-top in character (ie. Shizuo Heiwajima, Dante, and a number of Sengoku Basara guys would be rough examples of this)
Edited by Sparkysharps "If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo
The only one I recognize from those three is Dante, and I remember him having a Bruce Lee-like muscular build. I guess Biseinen can be leanly muscular.
Does Badass!Simon (from the final fights against the Anti-Spirals) count as a Rated M for Manly Biseinen?
Edited by MarqFJA Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
The "bishonen are skinny littler buggers" thing is as much a product Noodle People art conventions of Shoujo as it is of "slender = androgynously beautiful." Bishonen/Biseinen outside of shoujo tend to be a bit more muscular (compare aforementioned Sengoku Basara characters, which demonstrate Bishōnen Jump Syndrome like nobody's business, to those of Ouran High School Host Club.)
As for Simon, he's something of a weird case. Compared to bishonen in other series, Simon would be a straight up manly sort — But Gurren Lagann's art design is such a far cry from the "bishonen as default" style of many series that even the official pretty-boy character in GL (Rossiu) looks more masculine than one of the most manly characters of Code Geass (Jeremiah). The "Simon is a bishonen" case makes more sense when you see Gainax draw Simon in more typical anime styles (such as in the Sense of Wonder parallel works or sometimes in the official art books
Yeah, but Simon is specifically stated in TTGL's main article and character sheet to become a Bishounen post-Time Skip. I saw his pre-Anti-Spiral Arc design
◊, and I can definitely agree; the real question revolves around the dramatic change of his appearance after Nia's forced abduction to the Anti-Spiral homeworld
◊, which is most clearly exhibited by Lagann-hen (it takes only less than a minute, even
◊). It's listed in the CMOA page.
Perma-Stubble is allowed in small quantities (usually a bit on the chin or around the sideburn area). Usually more of a scruffy Soul Patch than "blue lower face".
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
Here's a translation of bidanshi, which meaning is quite close to biseinen:
びだんし【美男子】 a handsome [good-looking] man
It says nothing about facial or torso hair, however, since Japanese are not as hairy as many Westerners, the amount of body hair that Westerners find manly or attractive can look freaky to Japanese, just like so called wolf men who are afflicted by hirsutism are usually not considered to be more manly and more attractive than regular men, and are usually considered to be freaks.
Um... the current title. Bis Honen? Shouldn't it be Bi Shonen...?
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It's neither. It's a single word.
"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo
This article should be titled Bishonen Plus Model Hot Dudes In Thier Twenties.
Edited by ShivaIndis
Professional Nerd
So... Anyone have the patience to make an image links page for this (courtesy link)? It's kind of screaming for one right now.
"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo Hide / Show Replies
I bluified it, so hopefully we'll get some pictures now.
See you in the discussion pages.
Is it possible to make it law to link to pictures in the examples? It seems a bit off to have a trope about appearance to have over half the examples with no pictures at all.
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Every other appearance-based trope doesn't require each example to have a picture, and I don't see how this one would be any different. Still, it probably would be a good idea to set up an Image Links Wiki for this page.
Edited by Sparkysharps "If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo
Per TRS, this trope was merged with Pretty Boy, and the page itself will be turned into an Anime Fanspeak Definition-Only Page:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1646922313052598000&page=1#comment-24
Currently sick, so less active. If a Trope Repair Shop thread needs attention, holler or ask an engineer.