You know, the beauty of Hetalia is that while's not 100% accurate by itself, one can be met enough times with Fridge Brilliance for inconspicuous details (not spelled out either because classic censoring or just being too much for the yonkoma's short and lighthearted comedy format) thanks to propper external research... that's why I consider the series qualifies for Shown Their Work.

So, for an example of "Did Not Do the Research", Ancient Rome is described as having been killed by Germania and Ancient Greece is described as being killed by Turkey (or something to that general effect). Now, that completely ignores that point that after the Edict of Caracalla (the Constitutio Antoniniana) in 212, all free men under the rule of the Empire were Roman citizens (how could Germania have killed Ancient Rome if there were people all over the Eastern Mediterranean who were considered Roman citizens?). Also, it ignores the fact that what we call the Byzantine Empire called itself the Roman Empire and its people considered themselves Romans (in fact, to be called a Greek was an insult, one that implied the person being called Greek was a pagan). People in the West like to forget that the Roman Empire lived on until 1453 (and indeed after, since the hold-outs in the Morea and Trebizond considered themselves the remains of/successors to the Roman Empire) and simply lump the people into the Greek bin. It would perhaps be justifiable to call it Byzantium or Medeival Greece (since they spoke Greek) but if nations represent self-conception, all records show this Nation-tan should be Ancient Rome (or Christian Rome) and if it is what we think of them as, then it should be Byzantium - not Ancient Greece (Christianity and Rome both saw to the end of Greek self-identity). I know that this is probably a very minor point, but it still seems one that bears mention, since not doing research often comes up in the details.

Woops, went back to the main page, looks like Did Not Do the Research is still strong there, sorry to rant.

Actually, outside of Italy being a child it's not really worse than the Christmas Carnage. Of course Italy being a child changes things quite a bit (then again, I don't recally anybody having minded France lying naked on a bed with two almost naked boys, with all the necessary implications?) but still it's just a very crude and unfortune joke. It was a good decision to delete it, but really...

And explosive reactions or not, I wish people would just let this go. They were deleted, they're not part of canon, it's not Himaruya's fault that people go sniffing around his website looking for stuff he doesn't want them to see.

I realize Hetalia is just supposed to be silly and not 100% historically accurate, but even the serious parts can be inaccurate. America's Storage Cleaning?

Well, in the comic they actually didn't do anything to Chibitalia except touching his butt and talking dirty (at the end explicitly say they didn't do it at least) and since is Botticelli's work they are talking Chibitalia was at least 500 years old at the time (even then, somehow that doesn't stop the squick factor). Still it was deleted for obvious reasons and is not part of the canon.

Yes. Yes it does skirt the Gag Dub line. Tons of new jokes are thrown in, so much that I believe the translators also need writing credits at the end!

Too bad they didn't dub the end theme.

Not to mention the new wave of memes that are erupting even from just the previews, which will be both fun and annoying (but that's what memes tend to be, so whatever).

Eh, mixed feelings on that one, but I guess it would be nice to see an effort, even if just for fun.

At a con, I would give anything to see the VA's just dub over their own take on the ending theme! :D Even if their ad libbing sucked, it would totally we worth it.

If they did dub the ending theme, a good portion of the fanbase would be really pissed. Personally, I don't really care either way. That'd be funny at a con, though.

I'm sorry but it's you who needs to calm down. You keep deleting two lines that basically say "YMMV, not everyone thinks the dub is Woolseyism." Note that they're NOT deleting the original "Woolseyism" entry, they don't say "THE DUB FUCKING SUCKS," they're just adding a YMMV to it, something that happens everywhere in this wiki.

OK, so you like the dub, whatever, good for you. But it is controversial in the fandom and a great many of us don't consider it Woolseyism. Why is it "not fair" to have that noted in the main entry in an entirely civil style?

Also, I don't think you entirely understand what Woolseyism means. It doesn't simply mean "changes," it means "good changes." To quote from the trope page:

"Here's the thing. Woolsey's changes? They worked. Some of the lines were so well integrated into the collective consciousness of the game that they have been embraced by the fandom instead of reviled. While a good number of the script changes were probably unnecessary, many fans have come to the agreement that they don't hurt the final product; sometimes they even make it better. The script has diverted from the original — maybe wildly — and yet, it works anyway, just like a good localized translation should. ... Please note that this trope is about script changes in translation that do not change the actual story flow and only exist to ensure meaning is conveyed between cultures; the process of throwing a script out entirely and rewriting it nearly from scratch is a whole other trope and can of worms."

Again: many people don't think the dub is Woolseyism. It's not about "Opinions definitely abound as to whether or not this is a good thing or the worst thing ever." - Woolseyism is supposed to mean "good changes that work very well"!

...Oh. Sorry, then. I guess my idea of what the trope was was tainted by a YKTTW discussion that swerved into "Woolseyism is shows I like and Macekre is shows I don't - but that's wrong". Sorry.

I don't now. The Valentine's Strip did show that Germany was willing to go out whit Italy in a romantic date. And Sweden relationship with Finland is pretty obvious too. Is not just in peoples heads I would say. Should I link the strips? (Disclaimer: I don't really ship any of this parings so I'm trying to be as objective as I can)

Yeah, Germany and Italy got an entire Valentine's strip dedicated to them, they were shown as actually sleeping in the same bed, etc. Sweden obviously has a thing for Finland, was shown to be jealous once, and there was even a "you want kids? OK I'll try my best" joke with them (didn't Himaruya say Sweden is gay for Finland?). And as for America and England, I don't think the Valentine's chocolates strip, England wanting to cuddle for warmth (to which America replies "I'm not going to do anything" so he's not oblivious at all). England's bouts of tsundere/flustered behavior around America, or the implications of the "one hundred years of heartbreak" are strictly "estranged family" territory.

Of course this doesn't make any of them canon (although I'd say there's a pretty good case for Germany/Italy and Sweden->Finland is canon) but IMHO none of them are just a case of slash goggles strapped on too tight. If you think an entry claims they're canon go ahead and correct it, but personally I don't think there's a lot of things to clean up. A large percentage of this wiki is made up of fannish speculations.

And as for canon, there's Austria/Hungary who used to be married and are still on very good terms. You can't really get more canon than that...

I'm not denying that Sweden-Finland and Germany-Italy don't have jokes made about them that circle around a potential relationship, but jokes aren't the same as Ship Tease. Take note of how the punchlines in the Sweden-Finland strips is about Finland being scared of Sweden and moreso of the suggestion that he and Sweden are involved (or watch the relevant anime episode and the doomsday music as Sweden puts his arm around him). What Germany and Italy have going on is the comedy of inappropriately friendy Italian affection that confounds Germany who is up-tight and not used to dealing with others, but we have no reason to think that Italy is showing Germany any kind of love that he's not showing his other friends - he sleeps naked with Romano, too. The Valentines strip is about Germany falsely deducting from a self-help book that Italy is in love with him, but Italy's reaction to his over-the-top confession isn't exactly that of a man in love. And America and England, really: we know how England is about showing affection for anyone (o hai thar Anglo-Japanese Alliance Between Two Lonely People). We know that England has issues with any other brother figures in his life, we know that he is so used to being lonely and despised that he can hardly believe that America would agree to be his brother just like that. We know how completely crushed he was by America rejecting him as a brother. And we know, by the Cleaning of the Closet strip, that America's feelings about it circle around childhood memories. Everything about their backstory is about familiar love that ended badly, and to a casual reader who isn't looking for slash, then their present relationship would come across as a consequence of that, not as UST.

Sweden/Finland and Germany/Italy are listed as "official couples" on at least one place that I recall, and all three have it listed in various places in the character pages. Hetalia has its own Ship Tease page, but for goodness' sake: Hetalia fans on LJ will be screaming about the ship tease if two characters are standing next to each other on a poster. I'm not saying that there isn't a well of homosexuality in Hetalia; what I'm saying is that I see a lot of fans taking these things to have more meaning than they actually have, and that it shows on the pages here.

About Sweden, given Word Of God stance in the matter maybe we should change it to Single Target Sexuality for Finland. And about Italy's feelings for Germany they are ambiguous enough [1] [2] But I can't make a conclusive judgment on this... And since Italy admits his first love was a boy (the HRE) but he also hits on girls, that makes him Bi The Way anyway.

Well... for Sweden, it could be interpreted as either Single Target Sexuality or If Its You Its Okay towards Finny, so...

demivee: As for America and England, you're right, but what you say doesn't account for England wanting to cuddle (even if it's only for warmth, and that's an if there, seeing his reaction, and his other attempts to get closer to America), for the Valentine's Day event, the "hundred years heartbreak" (which is placed in a romantic context mind you) or England being dere and blushing. I'm not saying it's canon but you gotta admit the shippers are not pulling this out of thin air, there's at least the pretty high possibility of something more than "estranged family" on England's part, and America's reactions are ambiguous at times.

RE: Sweden and Finland. I read somewhere on this sight (most likely the Fridge Brilliance Anime page), that the Finns have this stereotype where they think that all Swedish men are gay. Hence Finland's comical fear and Sweden's <3 for Finland. Make of that whatever you will.

I would never deny the Ho Yay, but I do feel like a lot of the Hetalia tropers have a slight USUK bias.

Nowhere, we don't need the kind of wank and/or fan hate that this would bring.

Mmmkay. Just wondering.

This post is a joke, right?

Are you kidding? Why would I joke about how horrible this kind of trivialization is?

Over 60 million people died and several social groups had genocide committed upon them.

Yeah, and still there are many comedy series set during the same period that "trivialize" what occurred, because mentioning them would kill the fun in an instant. And never mind the fact that most of Hetalia does not even take place during WWII, or that it never once makes fun of the seriously not funny things (unless you watched the dub which is an entirely different series at this point).

Let's not get into this here, the trope discussion page is not the place for this. If you want to hate on the show do it in the forum or something.

I'd like a few names of WWII period comedies, kthnx

Hogans Heroes. Allo Allo. Dads Army. All considered classics.

TheProducers.

If this discussion was taking place anywhere else, I would call troll. So I'm calling it now. The argument you use to complain about Hetalia is just too cliche and uninformed.

So honest opinions and realistic concerns are trolling now? Having a solid reason for not liking a series is now suddenly disallowed?

NOT. HERE.

Get thee to the forums.

It says in the opening section of the show's page that it is "potentially very offensive." Those unprepared for the subject matter have been warned, and therefore, the show is given a free pass!

Hetalia's not meant for everyone and Hetalia is not the first to satirize World War II. A few who commented already mentioned some shows.

Go somewhere else.

No reason that it can't have shades of both. Although, In Vino Veritas seems to apply more to the first part of the statement, and Cant Hold His Liquor to the second.

Whatever, just don't start on it here. If you have a problem with the show (that you apparently know nothing about) go complain in the forum. I'm pretty sure there are a million anti-Hetalia threads already.

Eh, point taken. That said, I think you're overestimating the negative sentiment towards the series.

And I don't actually have that big a problem with the show, it's just that some details sort of bother me. And I think in the interest of representing the series as it is rather than looking at it through idealized fanboy goggles, that viewpoint should be represented. Which, admittedly, it already is in the opening/summary thing before the examples, so sorry about that.

But just to clarify: I like the show. I never read any of the strips, but I enjoy watching the anime and reading about the characters.

I don't think the Axis are portrayed as "heroes". None of the the characters actually do much involving WWII, and everybody gets a chance to be a main character for a story. the "axis powers" part of the title/idea is becoming obsolete, given the actual focus of the story.

I'd say no, but then I don't support this new trend. Many of them are not "YMMV" anyway.

It would be great if we have some consensus. I'm reluctant to do anything by my own in respect to this matter, honestly.

YMMV is just a page type created to avoid the natter that comes along with these kinds of tropes. It's not a judgement call about whether any particular example is legitimate, it just means those pages have the YMMV header on them. The only exceptions to moving them are when it's an in-universe reaction, like if a You Fail History Forever example talks about a character comically failing history or something. I'll move them.

I'm really not happy about that. For a comic supported mostly by its fandom, some of the so-called YMMV is actually very important.

I don't think moving it (on any page) is a very good idea. Some people might miss it.

To close the above discussion (toke from the YMMV page)

• Don't add these [examples] in the main page. Not as "played", straight or otherwise. They go on the YMMV page.

I don't think so. There's a (really good) Doctor Who fancomic that also has its own page.

And Harry Potter, and Avatar, and... actually, look for yourself and be amaze!

Artifact Title.

I don't have any problem if you want to do that. Any suggestions?

Suggestions:

• Theories on Prussia's status

• Theories on the Hetaliaverse

• Nation Genetics

• Theories on Character Genders (for characters like NZ or China)

EDIT:

• Future Nations (how could I forget this? :o)

Not necessarily worded so, of course. And I'm open to more.

What about making folders for each character (that currently have more than one WMG obviously) plus "Other Nations" and "Hetaliaverse" (nation genetics goes there)?

I think that would end up being pretty messy, considering that there are Loads And Loads Of Characters. Maybe a folder that says "Character-Specific WMG"s would do?

That could work, the last option is making one for the 8 main characters + Prussia and one more folder for "other characters" (+ the general WMG folders) (take note I'm just basing this suggestions on one WMG page I saw, the WMG/Naruto and WMG/Bleach have different ways to do it, so I can't see any reliable or standard source of parameters so feel free to go ahead and do it in any way.)

After talking it over with my sister, she suggested:

• America, England, France, Russia, China, Japan, N. Italy, Germany
• Prussia (yes, he is so awesome he gets his own folder)
• Other Characters
• Historical WM Gs (although I am at a loss as to why we need this)
• Hetaliaverse
• Future Nations

Seems to be okey!

Whoa, thanks to whoever split it. I was going to do it myself, but I got held up. So, great job. :D

No problem, the page was just getting longer and longer so I did it. I change a couple things for functionality but I think it came out pretty well overall. Be sure to correct any mistakes if you spot them!