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zerothis
topic
03:18:46 PM Mar 9th 2014
I think that Tolkien's Uruk Hai out to be mentioned here as not falling into this trope. The Uruk Hai are actually Lawful Evil. They were also invented by Tolkien specifically answering the concept of orcs are Always Chaotic Evil. Tolkien was going to describe orcs as 'unredeemable' but realized that would not be allowed in the universe he had created (His character, Eru, creator of Arda, would not allow it). Instead they were labeled 'almost unredeemable' and he invented a race of orcs with redeeming qualities, the Uruk Hai. Lawfulness, loyalty, sacrifice, empathy, dutiful, strong willfulness even a bit of honor. Some of Sauron's Uruk Hai (actually called Black Uruks, distinct from Saruman's Uruks) defected to serve Saruman. Some see this as a unredeeming action on their part. But remember that Orcs served Sauron out of fear. For the Black Uruks to defect required discernment to see Saruman as a better alternative and a bit courage to defy Sauron.
VVK
topic
11:28:38 AM May 6th 2012
edited by VVK
Found the following, which would probably be an example, but which I removed because it's missing something vital:

"vicious colonizers, they eat any sentients they come across and breed the survivors like cattleinstead of using, say, cattle, which are surely easier to control and fight back less. The game's creators wanted an enemy that was simply an enemy for emnity's sake, who could not be negotiated with or sympathized with, and against whom genocide was a sympathetic option; and they got just that in the David Weber/Steven White novels based on the game."

...I think it might be about something called Arachnids or something from a game called Star Fire (or Starfire), but I don't actually know, so I don't dare to write that in. If someone knows, please complete it and put it back.
yunatwilight
topic
06:29:01 PM Sep 27th 2011
  • From a real mouse's point of view, real rats would be Always Chaotic Evil, as they're quite happy to kill and eat mice.
    • That would make orcas Always Chaotic Evil in regards to dolphins, because they also eat them... But dolphins despite their playful friendly rep are among the biggest douchebags of the animal kingdom... Outch, my head hurts.

Predators are not evil just before they eat prey, even by the most open definition. That's plain old True Neutral. Though dolphins' rape-based, murderous culture might qualify if you think they're smart enough.
Smasher
topic
08:20:03 PM Jul 28th 2011
edited by Smasher
Are viruses an example? Both in real life and in machines, viruses do nothing but evil, but it borders on a real life example, so I'm asking if it's ok to put on the page (or if I am wrong about viruses).
VVK
11:26:32 AM May 6th 2012
They're non-sentient (aside from exotic speculations about computer programs), hence always True Neutral.
DJMarred
topic
10:03:30 PM Nov 30th 2010
edited by DJMarred
I think the "chaotic" in "Always Chaotic Evil" is unfair. You can have some very heroic Chaotic Good people, like Drizzt Do'Urdan, Han Solo and Robin Hood, and Lovable Rogue's like Jack Sparrow. It's an unfair biase to say that Chaos is worse than Law, when they are two sides of the same coin. Chaotic Evil people may be the most dangerous alignment, but they're aren't always the most evil; their evilness is often more a result of psychoticness or mental illness than actual evil. You can also have some incredibly evil Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil people.

I propose a change of the trope's name to "Always Evil" instead. Or "Always Neutral Evil", if we need a Character Alignment that badly (we don't anyway, due to the wiki's policy of no alignment examples), due to it being described as the "asshole alignment". Or we could have "Racially Always Evil", due to the trope being about a generally evil race. Check the discussion for the Always Lawful Good while you're at it, too. "Sounding cool" doesn't justify it.
PowerOfRock
01:53:50 PM Dec 17th 2010
I too think the "Chaotic" in "Always Chaotic Evil" is not only unfair, but also misleading, so much so that they made disclaimers on other pages when linking to this page. However, I do understand that the "Chaotic" is meant to make it sound more evil, a la Rule of Cool. Therefore, I propose a name change that ties this trope in with a different trope than Chaotic Evil. More specifically, Complete Monster. Something like "Complete Monster Clan" or "Complete Monster Race" sounds more appropriate, or something along those lines. After all, Complete Monster is the most evil characterization trope out there, and this is meant to be a race full of them.
Dagobitus
topic
05:16:25 PM Oct 12th 2010
I cant find tropes for Always Chotic Good = Huflepuff nor Always Lawfl Evil = Ravenclaw.
DJMarred
09:52:04 PM Nov 30th 2010
edited by DJMarred
You might wanna clean up your grammar. Besides, when you say Ravenclaw, I'm pretty sure you mean Slytherin. Ravenclaw's the smart house.
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