|
Main A Song Of Ice And Fire Discussion
Reverting the Half Human Hybrid and Offstage Villainy examples. The former because no reason was given for its deletion, and the latter because the stated reason does not appear to be valid. Yes, the Bolton's aren't particularly worse than some of the other houses, but this example was not about House Bolton in general, it was about Ramsey Bolton in particular. And it's a valid example because, so far, most of his villainy has been off stage. Hence his inclusion in the example. I did rewrite it slightly, though.
GRRM recently wrote the following for the Suvudu Cage Match between Rand and Jamie.
""No one is ta'veren in Westeros," said Tyrion. "Our gods are fickler than yours. They have no favorites." Though there a few they like to piss on, now that I reflect on it.""
He later said ""We have our own Creator here... a crueler one than yours, I fear. In his domain the only pattern is the one men make themselves, There are no ta'veren. No man is ever safe.""
I feel like we should somehow include these quotes (or parts of these quotes) on the page, but I don't know how.
Thanks!
DV
Took these out for further discussion:
- Five Bad Band / Five Man Band (Depending on your point of view): Tyrion's posse in Thrones and Kings:
- The Big Bad / The Hero — Tyrion
- The Dragon / The Lancer — Bronn
- The Evil Genius / The Smart Guy — Timmet
- The Brute / The Big Guy — Shagga
- The Dark Chick / The Chick — Chella & Shae
- Tag Along Kid — Pod
- Another Five Bad Band is the Lannister family:
- The Big Bad — Tywin
- The Dragon — Jaime
- The Evil Genius — Tyrion
- The Brute — Daven
- The Dark Chick — Cersei
Does my Abusive Precursors example fit?
- Precursors: Valyria.
- Apparently Abusive Precursors as well (though not as abusive as most examples of this trope). The "Free Cities" are called "Free" because they're no longer under the heel of Old Valyria. The city of Braavos was founded as a secret haven for refugees from Valyrian domination.
I removed these:
- Idiot Ball: Various character do dumb things, often for character reasons:
- In that case we should really mention her husband too: goes to the queen thinking that she will accept his gift of mercy when she has all the power of the court behind her, knowing what she is capable of as a mother as well as a Lannister. Of course there is also her son: crowns himself king in the north against the powers of the most seasoned general and ruthless politician in Westeros, Tywin Lannister, sends Theon Greyjoy to Pyke to treat with his father and thus gives up the power of hostage over the Iron Islands, marries Jeyne Westerling and thus throws away his alliance with the notoriously unforgiving Walder Frey, kills Rickard Karstark instead of imprisoning him and thus alienates the support of his family at a crucial time in the war.
Shouldn't A Game Of Thrones redirect to Game Of Thrones? People are going to be using it to refer to the series as soon as it starts.
Removed:
- Alternative Character Interpretation: A large number of characters, specifically Catelyn, Stannis and Daenerys. Also applies in-world for obvious reasons: Daenerys and Viserys see Stark as a villainous usurper, while he sees himself as honorable and loyal. Stark sees Jaime as a villainous Kinslayer, while Jaime sees himself as someone who simply did what had to be done. Several characters are convinced Tyrion is a Complete Monster, while he is merely trying to stay alive and safe (from his own relatives, no less!). Cersei sees Tywin as a great father, but to Tyrion... yeah, you get the idea.
- Catelyn had became quite a Base Breaker considering how she treated Jon, and is in many ways still treated badly in fanfiction. Sometimes as bad as Cersei! Both Catelyn and Cersei started off as two sides of the same coin-vindictive women who would protect their children at all costs. However, Catelyn became increasingly more sympathetic (...well until she Came Back Wrong after the Red Wedding), Cersei became increasingly more vile until she had became a Complete Monster.
Regarding the recent mass movement of things to YMMV - I would say things like Ensemble Darkhorse is not a matter of opinion - those characters are genuinely popular. There is no subjectivity there. Same for things like fan nicknames and so on.
Out of curiosity: does anyone know—has it even been established?—how Littlefinger got his nickname? I mean, it's not like he has a Right Red... little finger or something.
How about locking the page from any new edits for a week or so? The new book just came out and doing so would hold off on unmarked spoilers flooding in.
Added a Did Not Do The Research entry regarding the eating of snow/ice as means to drink water. This is a very bad idea if you want to preserve your body heat; the solution for this is putting snow/ice in a sack and warming it beneath your clothes.
The characters - Bran & Co. - certainly had the means to do this since they knew where they were going and a simple sack for carrying water is one of the first things you need in these circumstances. One would imagine people from the north would know this.
IMO it was an oversight on G. Martin's part, yet still an example of the trope. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Out of curiosity, do you think it might be time to split the individual books into their own pages, like with the Harry Potter books? I ask this as someone who's relatively new to the series and am trying not get spoiled for the later books (am in the middle of A Co K now). I don't think I'm the only new fan brought in by the TV show who is also an avid troper. Besides, I think each book could support plenty of its own tropes.
Shifting Too Dumb To Live to the YMMV page, since there are opinions there I disagree with and I'm sure others might.
Fibrodisplasia Ossificans Progressiva (FOP) is a genetic disease and the calcification of the fibrous tissue is internal, meaning that while the deformities caused by the disease are visible, the skin remains unaffected.
Leprosy and Smallpox cause serious skin lesions that can leave the skin looking as if petrified, are lethal if untreated, and contagious, meaning it fits Greyscale much better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprosy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprosy
I wanted to contest the removal of these examples:
I think it's appropriate to list Bloodraven as possibly a Heroic Albino. I haven't read the prequels, so I'm not sure how well he comes off there, but doesn't he seem potentially good at least in his appearance in ADWD? I get the impression he's based on Elric Of Melinbone, another character hard to classify as Evil Albino or Heroic Albino.
Also, I think the Kingswood Brotherhood should be listed under Just Like Robin Hood- They basically sound like the Merry Men of earlier stories (before the "rob from the rich and the give to the poor" came in- they just did the first part).