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Fighteer
moderator
topic
07:10:13 AM Jan 8th 2013
I trimmed down this entry from What We Now Know to Be True:
  • The Galactics have nothing but contempt for the Earthling concept of the mathematical continuum, and thus for any science not based on discrete mathematics. This may be justified, since even some real life Earthlings regard the continuum as a useful shortcut that we can forget about once we have sufficient computing power.
    • Note that humanity were the only ones who predicted the 4th galaxy coming unattached from the hyperspace network, because of our mathematics. Some galactics were suitably impressed.

Besides being written as natter, it also has a Justifying Edit referring to Real Life, which is unnecessary, and it contains a spoilered sub-bullet that doesn't explain why it has anything to do with the trope.
cyyoung
topic
03:13:24 PM Oct 23rd 2012
Re: Uthacalthing as a Manipulative Bastard. Um, I'm old so I don't quite understand the editing/discussion/wikiness, process, but I do have the following comment.Uthacalthing isn't a manipulative Bastard. He is a brilliant ally of the humans.He's not a sort of benign guy who does bad things. He's a brilliant guy who is saving the Earthclan.

He kidnaps Kault and sets him up to "find" a fake up-liftable species, and learns to respect Kault's true dedication to uplift. By having Kault discover the "Garthlings", who are gorillas he: 1) Protects the Earthclan from charges of illegally uplifting the gorillas without permission. Sort of a "gosh, where did these guys come from. Well, too late to ask that question because we Thennanin are now their patrons" There are terrible consequences if you illegally uplift folk (although I forget why it was bad…but it was terribly terribly bad.) 2) Gains Earth a powerful ally. Once the Thennanin become patrons to the gorillas they are then friends and allies of Earthclan, become supporters of Earthclan, and enemies to the Gubru. The Gubru loathe the Earthclan, as does everybody else except for the Tymbrimi, who rather like them because they are interesting and have good senses of humor. Now Earthclan is supported by the Thennanin as well, who are very powerful folk.

So, as meta-process, do I clean this rebuttal up and cut the original paragraph out and substitute mine, or is there some kind of discussion/acceptance thing before my comment goes into the article?
Xtifr
06:53:10 PM Oct 23rd 2012
edited by Xtifr
The example doesn't seem to be saying that Uthacalthing is a bastard overall; merely that his treatment of Kault pushes him into this territory. Which I think is a reasonable observation. Kault may be an enemy of Earthclan, but he's also a sincere and honorable, um, being.

From the description of Manipulative Bastard:

"While this character type seems inherently villainous, many of them are at least nominally on the heroes' side. A cunning branch of the Anti-Hero family sports this trope; many Tricksters overlap into Manipulative Bastard territory as well."

If it weren't for his treatment of Kault, I'd probably agree with you, but as it is, I can definitely see the argument that the trope applies. Uthacalthing is a trickster on the side of the heroes, but that doesn't mean he's not a Manipulative Bastard in this case.

In general, though, to answer your meta-question, you should follow Repair, Don't Reply if an entry is incorrect. But it's good to discuss it first—you did exactly the right thing here. And you're welcome to offer more counter-arguments if you'd like.
Fighteer
moderator
04:11:18 PM Nov 10th 2012
Even Uthacalthing was dismayed by the things he had to do in the course of his trick on Kault. He seemed to regret it at various points and at the end it worked out even better than he had imagined. So I don't see the "bastard" part there.
Xtifr
06:30:19 PM Nov 10th 2012
edited by Xtifr
I'm not sure a few moments of regret after being forced to spend extra time with your victim really makes you not a bastard. And the way it played out was not at all what was planned. Uthacalthing had no idea there were gorillas around to fill the role of the mysterious "Garthlings", so that was no part of his plot. But I admit that even if you take Tropes Are Flexible into account, this is really borderline, so I won't object if the trope is removed. (But if it's wrong, it should be removed, not edited to argue with itself.)

(There's also the pranks that Uthacalthing set up around the branch library which even had Fiben cursing him at one point.)
ArcadesSabboth
topic
12:07:00 PM Mar 24th 2012
I'm not sure The Unreveal really applies to the Uplift Storm trilogy. In Startide Rising it's already clear that the fanatics believe the Progenitors have returned to the galaxies, and that whoever gets to meet them first will be elevated above the other clans.
Bugsydor
topic
02:22:06 PM Sep 3rd 2011
I think that David Brin's Uplift novels need more love, so I'll probably be giving the novels their own individual trope pages.

My current plan is to create the pages under main with a link back to the main Uplift article in each one. Feel free to tell me if I'm doing it wrong.
ArcadesSabboth
04:49:39 PM Dec 15th 2011
edited by ArcadesSabboth
Go for it! To split off a work page from the series page, start a new article in the Literature namespace (e.g. Literature.Startide Rising), link to it on the main Uplift page, and move all the content specific to that book off of the main Uplift series page. You might want to keep the Uplift Storm trilogy on a single work page, though. I imagine most of the tropes from those books are found in all three.
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