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Linna
topic
03:33:58 AM Jun 22nd 2013
Why is there no WMG?
SeptimusHeap
08:20:07 AM Nov 16th 2013
Because nobody made one: WMG.Fifty Shades Of Grey.
SMARTALIENQT
topic
08:34:34 PM Jan 5th 2013
For Amicable Exes, which doesn't have any context, can someone put, "Christian is good friends with his ex-domme. Subverted in that she started a relationship with him at age fifteen, it's implied that his methods of domming come from her, and he sees nothing wrong with what she did." in?
Willbyr
moderator
topic
11:18:17 AM Dec 3rd 2012
edited by Willbyr
Per the cleanup effort for Zero Context Examples, What Do You Mean It's Not Heinous? has been removed from the page pending it being written into an actual example that connects to the books. Once this is done, please post the suggested rewrite to that thread so it can be evaluated for re-addition to the page.
Alva
12:31:13 PM Dec 3rd 2012
edited by Alva
Rape is heinous. It doesn't matter that Ana orgasms, because it's vile. The entire plot revolves around the idea that rape is okay if you enjoyed it.

Also, the writing is awful, but I hardly think that qualifies under this trope.
MichaelKatsuro
topic
08:45:40 AM Nov 18th 2012
Could someone please remove the You Keep Using That Word entry? Seems like it was added by somebody who don't understand that the trope is about misusing words, not overusing them.
Telcontar
moderator
09:09:59 AM Nov 18th 2012
Go here for edit requests. I've asked for you.
InTheEther
topic
09:12:15 PM Aug 9th 2012
edited by InTheEther
Firstly, I'm going to admit that I haven't sat down and read it all. But, with there being talk shows devoting episodes to the books and such, I decided to download an excerpt, which ended up being the first twenty pages or so. I've also come across plenty of short excerpts.

And I would like to say, My God the writing is horrible. Seriously, it's nearly painful to read through. As a tip to everyone out there, first person, present tense is a really difficult thing to pull off. There's a reason most books are written in the past tense. The only good example I can think of where it was pulled off was in Witches Inc., and in that the tense had a point as the POV character had amnesia.

The interest in the books seems to have more to do with them "revitalizing" people's sex lives than good writing, but what I've seen hasn't been impressive. I'm kinda wondering if the people I've seen going on about how inventive and daring it is and such have actually trolled around on the internet. Or even checked out any of a number of "erotic" publishers. If I can make a suggestion, check out the Brides of the Kindred series. Has the steamy bits but the characters are neither bland nor contemptable, the writing is good, and it has a good storyline. I don't want to get flagged, but I think everybody knows about a certain site online they could look up if they don't want to pay for an erotic story. Yes, a lot of it is just as bad as So G but some of the stories are actually very good and would remain so even if all the sex scenes were removed or handled as a descretion shot.
Nani
10:49:41 PM Aug 27th 2012
I had the misfortune of reading the first novel in its entirety, and your complaints about the writing are completely truthful. It only gets worse the further the author delves into the story, and the more Christian's true nature is revealed. I had read it hoping that there would be a "so bad it's good" sort of charm to it, but even that was not present at all. It really is just a poorly-written novel with no redeeming qualities, and to be honest, I can't see how anyone could read it and find Christian and Ana's relationship healthy, let alone desirable.
SeptimusHeap
08:55:12 AM Aug 28th 2012
Guys, this isn't the review tab. There are places for reviews.
SeptimusHeap
topic
03:18:54 PM Jun 28th 2012
Restored as per 5P
Rhysdux
09:41:17 AM Jul 26th 2012
Tropes that should be added:

Even The Guys Want Him: The trope is genderswitched in the series. EVERYONE wants Ana—Christian Grey, Paul Clayton (the Mike Newton Expy), José Rodriguez (the Jacob Black Expy), Jack Hyde and even Kate Kavanagh, Ana's housemate, can't refrain from telling Ana how gorgeous, hot and desirable she is every fifteen seconds.

Love Hungry: Ana and Grey are continually talking about how they're hungry for sex and/or each other.

More Than Mind Control: Ana states outright in Chapter 13 that Grey uses sex as a weapon to get what he wants. Not only that, he admits it.

Not Good With Rejection: Christian Grey AND Ana Steele. Grey breaks into her duplex and rapes her into submission when he receives a rejection email; when Grey refuses to kiss Ana, this is her response (which is straight out of New Moon):

Once underneath the dark, cold concrete of the garage with its bleak fluorescent light, I lean against the wall and put my head in my hands. What was I thinking? Unbidden and unwelcome tears pool in my eyes. Why am I crying? I sink to the ground, angry at myself for this senseless reaction. Drawing up my knees, I fold in on myself. I want to make myself as small as possible. Perhaps this nonsensical pain will be smaller the smaller I am.

Not If They Enjoyed It Rationalization: Ana has a number of orgasms during the rape in Chapter 12. This is presented as equaling consent. Apparently Ana's unaware that orgasm can happen during rape—or that it doesn't mean that you've consented to anything.

Obliviously Evil: Christian Grey, a classic Type 2.

Relationship Compression: Grey asks Ana to sign a nondisclosure agreement and a slave contract on their first official date.

Romanticized Abuse

Stalker With A Crush: Christian Grey.

Too Dumb to Live: At one point, Ana asks Grey how anyone can see well enough to travel at night. Apparently she is unaware of the illuminated flight panel in front of her, the lights on the helicopter and the millions of cars below her that are driving with headlights.

Unfortunate Implications: The one non-white character who is onscreen for more than two seconds exists solely to perform a G-rated sexual assault on Ana when she is drunk.

  • And Ana blames herself for his actions later, apologizing to her assailant.

  • Darfur, of all things, is dragged into the book to demonstrate just how rich and generous Christian Grey is.

Examples that should be added:

Disproportionate Retribution: In Chapter 12, when Ana sends an email to Grey saying that she doesn't want to get into BDSM and "it's been nice knowing you," Grey's immediate response is to break into her duplex apartment, tie her up—the only thing he asks permission for—and then rape her into submission. (Despite the fact that Ana has been freaking out over BDSM for several chapters, she claims that the email was a joke. Neither Ana nor her author seem to realize that this doesn't make Grey's actions one bit less horrific.)

Purple Prose: Placing my head on my knees, I let the irrational tears fall unrestrained. I am crying over the loss of something I never had. How ridiculous. Mourning something that never was – my dashed hopes, dashed dreams, and my soured expectations.

YMMV:

Accidental Nightmare Fuel: It's horrifying how many times Ana is raped (or abused without her consent)...and yet this is presented as not only romantic but the a relationship to aspire to.

SaraJaye
11:31:02 AM Aug 14th 2012
Add this one:

Beta Couple: Kate and Elliot, happy and stable and passionate compared to the constant drama between Ana and Christian.
Telcontar
moderator
01:33:21 PM Aug 14th 2012
Go here to make edit requests; they aren't usually noticed on discussion pages.
InsanityPrelude
03:09:59 PM Aug 20th 2012
While we're at it, someone (not me- haven't read the book, don't want to) needs to do something about all the zero-context-examples.
Hermiethefrog
09:36:38 AM Aug 26th 2012
Regarding the disproportionate retribution example, I've read the book and chapter twelve as well.

I don't remember that being rape. Someone else on the edit request for a locked page thread also verified that here. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=gsjp7dldjh2dwdelcha2hu17&page=143#3562

I'll agree with the trope "attempted rape", however, as Jack Hyde's confrontation with Ana where he blackmails her into having sex most likely would have led to something more than touching had Ana not kicked him in the balls.

So disproportionate retribution needs to be edited to remove that example, this bit "Grey breaks into her duplex and rapes her into submission when he receives a rejection email;" from not good with rejection needs to be removed, not if you enjoyed it rationalization needs to be edited to remove mention of the supposed rape in chapter twelve (I will agree with its use in chapter 16,) and nightmare fuel needs to be edited to remove mention of rape.

The books are awful enough as is without having to add in examples of things like rape where they don't apply.

Also, anticlimax referring to what, specifically?
Rhysdux
08:59:30 PM Aug 29th 2012
edited by Rhysdux
@Hermiethefrog: It should stand. He breaks in. He tells Ana that he has come to show her what she'll be giving up if she breaks up with him. He then asks her if he can tie her hands. That's it. That's the only kind of consent that he asks for in Chapter 12. Ana responds sexually, yes—but arousal isn't consent.

Furthermore, Grey also hits and rapes Ana after she rolls her eyes at him in Chapter 16. And Ana most assuredly does NOT consent, for she says the following lines:

My eyes spring open in response to the pain, and I try to rise, but his hand moves between my shoulder blades keeping me down.

I try and wriggle away from the blows, spurred on by adrenaline spiking and coursing through my body.

I gasp, this new assault breaking through the numbness around my brain.

NO…my traitorous body explodes in an intense, body-shattering orgasm.

Ana's verdict afterwards? "Boy...I survived." And "I can't say that I enjoyed the experience, in fact, I would still go a long way to avoid it." And perhaps most damning of all:

“Well, if you were mine you wouldn’t be able to sit down for a week after the stunt you pulled yesterday.” He said it then, and all I could concentrate on at the time was being his. All the warning signs were there, I was just too clueless and too enamored to notice.

Something similar happens in Chapter 19. Grey takes Ana out for a walk to his parents' boathouse, then picks her up and slings her over his shoulder, telling her:

“I need to be alone with you.”

“What for?”

“Because I’m going to spank and then fuck you.”

And his reasons? Because Ana saw another man socially, because she's considering visiting her her mother, and because she crossed her legs at the dining room table rather than let him finger her in front of his parents. Grey intends to hit and then have sex with a woman against her will to show her that she's his. And he says this:

''“I’m mad because you never mentioned Georgia to me. I’m mad because you went drinking with that guy who tried to seduce you when you were drunk and who left you when you were ill with an almost complete stranger. What kind of friend does that? And I’m mad and aroused because you closed your legs on me.” His eyes glitter dangerously, and he’s slowly inching up the hem of my dress.''

“I want you, and I want you now. And if you’re not going to let me spank you–which you deserve–I’m going to fuck you on the couch this minute, quickly, for my pleasure, not yours.”

Also, it's worth noting that Ana has not signed the three-month contract before or during any of these chapters. Ana is still a free agent; she does not have to do what Grey wants. This is not BDSM, which focuses on safety, sane behavior and consent of both parties. This is abuse, rape and attempted rape.

Shota
04:20:13 PM Sep 24th 2012
Why are the pages locked to begin with?
Telcontar
moderator
11:34:45 PM Sep 24th 2012
See the Content Policy. Work pages like this one are locked to keep them clean.
crazyman8472
12:29:06 PM Oct 27th 2012
edited by crazyman8472
Catch Phrase: Anastasia: "Oh, my." :)
jarxon6
10:16:14 AM Apr 23rd 2013
Also for Unfortunate Implications; the fact it's portraying BDSM as essentially, abuse, rape, and delving little on the truth of the subculture.
TwilightChronicles
12:41:03 PM Mar 21st 2014
Can somebody for the love of God please fix the description? I get that we're all upset that Twilight fan fiction got published, but that's basically all the description is. Considering that BDSM (regardless of of the inaccuracy with which it's portrayed) is a central driving plot of all of the books, there could be a little mention of the plot, rather than just "Twilight fanfic, but as a book, and also it sucks and we should all be angry about it".
SeptimusHeap
12:29:30 AM Mar 22nd 2014
Feel free to ask here.
TwilightChronicles
04:45:21 PM Apr 13th 2014
It's really not something that should have to be asked. It's a shoddily-written intro to, for better or for worse, an influential and well-known piece of pop culture. This is embarrassing.
SeptimusHeap
10:34:17 PM Apr 13th 2014
Well, yes you do have to ask, because "it shouldn't really have to be asked" does not magically allow other people to find out by themselves how it needs to be rewritten.
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