Kick The Dog Anime And Manga Discussion

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NNinja
Topic
07:42:41 AM Feb 16th 2017
  • Despite being a hero (well, Anti-Hero), Lelouch from Code Geass gets a definite Kick the Dog moment when he orders the slaughter of anyone connected with the Geass as part of a Roaring Rampage of Revenge for his close friend Shirley's murder. Since a Geass user killed her, his anger is somewhat justified, but taking it out on civilians and children is the point where it crosses into this or the other trope. Yes, it IS true that the scientists were hardly innocent, but the kids were both Child Soldiers and victims of said scientists's experiments (which made them into Child Soldiers in the first place).
    • It's meant to show that Lelouch was definitely losing it. On the other hand, considering that one of the Geass Users, given the chance, quickly steals one soldier's body and uses him to kill his team-mate, and shows no reaction for doing so it clearly drives home the point Cornelia gave in the previous episode: you never, ever, give Geass Users an opportunity. Just take a step back and think about it - Lelouch kills three or four dozen heavily armed soldiers over the course of the series using the same method simply because they give him the few seconds needed to make eye contact, and can create a small army with a half-hours work. Lelouch knows just how stupid it would be to take chances. They're not even victims: they're fully trained child assassins, armed with the most powerful of personal weapons - mind control - possess absolute loyalty to the master that's fed and trained them for as long as they remember, and have no morals or compassion for human life. They're dangerous. So, this is more of a "Shoot the Cerberus" moment, because he can't win with any other method, and he can't run, because they'll attack him, and he can't defeat them if they have the advantage of surprise, and he's only avoided them because they don't realise he knows about them.
    • Charles did this to Lelouch as well on a couple of crucial occasions as well (like saying "old news, what about it?" when young Leluch called him out on his indifference towards Marianne's murder).
    • Schneizel manipulating an already unstable Teen Genius into creating a Sphere of Destruction for him — and telling her repeteadly that, by joining him and doing his bidding, she'd be fulfilling the wish of the person she was in love with. Said person? His own dead sister Euphemia. He also sabotages the reconciliation between Lelouch and Suzaku by arresting the former, and sets up the betrayal from the Black Knights with a Quote Mine from said meeting. The bastard doesn't stop there, though. After Lelouch has decided on his ZeroApproval Thanatos Gambit after also believing Nunnally to be lost as well thanks to the FLEIJA destruction Schneizel caused, Schneizel sets up Nunnally, who has been hidden away by him, as his enemy.
Charles seem like legit example but Lelouch and Schneisel are clearly not. What Zero did to Geass research facility was rather queastionable to put it mildly, but Examples Are Not Arguable. And the reason he did it(aside from being pissed) was that these kids were really f-ing dangerous. He had experience what happens when geass kid is left without control when he faced Mao. Leaving them in Brittania's hands would be very risky, and by destroying the facility he denied his enemy a huge advantage.

As for Schneisel convincing Nina to make a nuke... well there is obvious gain to it. She made him a nuke. Which he could use to blow up Black Knights. Lelouch was his primary enemy so any action he took against him is disqualified. taking care of enemy is taking care of enemy, one side has to lose, and you don't want to be the one.
azul120
11:59:14 PM Mar 16th 2017
Schneizel used two emotionally fragile girls. One of them he convinced to build a friggin' nuke by invoking the memory of the now deceased princess she loved dearly, even though said princess was an absolute pacifist. The other girl was Lelouch's own sister Nunnally, who still loved and missed him dearly, and who Lelouch had fought for, and Schneizel managed to manipulate and turn her against him.
MagBas
03:28:11 AM Mar 17th 2017
Well, the description of Kick the Dog really uses the expression "for no apparent gain".
Orihime
Topic
11:18:24 AM Jun 7th 2011
Hm. I see that several examples here are less about Kick the Dog and more about straight-up character bashing. Haruhi kicked the puppy, yeah, but she does get better and shows more empathy like when she stays by Kyon's bedside for days straight in Disappearance and takes care of Yuki when she's sick, and her bashers deliberately 'ignore it. And then there's the really pathetic device of using filler material to bash the shit out of Sakura (and stuff that is more often than not Played for Laughs) and show her as a bitchcuntwhore. While digging much LESS on the Naruto males who have done far worse stuff than she does)

So yeah, I'm not 100% impressed. Can we do something to separate genuine puppykicking from rabid and frothing character hate?
NNinja
07:27:55 AM Feb 16th 2017
The case is simple: If a character is doing something evil for no real reason it's the trope. When he has a reason for it(reason can be anything ranging from nessecity, through needing to accomplish something, to being reasonably pissed at the "dog") it doesn't count.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=KickTheDog.AnimeAndManga