Idiot Plot Live Action Film Discussion

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05:51:22 PM Apr 27th 2014
Can someone re-add the Star Wars Prequels? The removal was justified by in-story theorizing.
06:41:18 PM Apr 27th 2014
Uh, yeah. Those should be added back. Some of the examples were a bit of a stretch, but by and large it's just a prequel apologist saying "well, it makes sense From a Certain Point of View!"
04:05:40 AM Apr 28th 2014
Besides, that is not a valid reason to remove stuff. Add it back, indeed.
04:38:47 AM Apr 16th 2014
Would Prisoners count? That's a five minute plot stretched to two and a half hours because Jackman's character is so convinced Paul Dano's character did it despite all clues pointing to the contrary.
08:20:02 PM Feb 26th 2014

  • The search for a completely lifeless planet to test Genesis on in the first place. There's no reason for the test to require that "not even a microbe" be on the surface before Genesis can be tested. If Genesis completely fails because of a microbe, the rest of the movie and Star Trek III can't happen (Genesis effect won't happen on a planet full of people/living things, Khan and later Kruge is wasting his time) If Genesis fails and only wipes out everything, no actual reason why they can't just use another Genesis device is given. If Genesis works only because of the one microbe, then that isn't exactly a loss - creating a world from only one microbe, as opposed to complete nothingness, isn't anything to sneeze at. If a microbe will somehow cause the effect to be perverted somehow, can't they just quarantine or just remove the microbe with a transporter, and use Genesis on everything that isn't in the quarantine - apparently they were able to do this in the cavern below the surface of Regula 1: Genesis was used on the cavern, and not the entire planet.

The reason for not using on a world with any native life is clearly a moral one. Spock says that any native life would be destroyed in favor of the "new matrix," and destroying naturally evolving life in order to test a new device that can easily be tested somewhere else (they hadn't found a good spot yet but that's no reason to think they won't in a day, a week, or a month) is obviously morally problematic.
07:19:50 PM Mar 13th 2014
  • The whole earslug thing could have (possibly) been avoided, had Chekov and Terrel just told the truth: they were looking for a planet to terraform, and were surveying the territory to investigate the possibility of indigenous life. That was the truth, and Genesis never needed to come into it. By refusing to say one word, they revealed to Khan that there was something to not say one word about in the first place.
  • Khan could have played his cards right, and had Dr. Carol Marcus give him Genesis. It seems as though most of the struggle on the space station was regarding where the location of the actual device was. Had he just had Terrel and Chekov say "you know what, we're ready to test," made up some bogus excuse about needing to inspect the Genesis device personally, and left it at that, it's quite possible that Marcus would have just said OK, and beamed him straight to the device. And Khan still could have played a gambit to get Kirk in a trap later on.
  • When the earslugs are rejected, and Kirk is in the Regula 1 cavern, Kirk and Khan have an exchange regarding whether or not Khan is going to have to come down to Regula 1 to beat Kirk. Despite what Kirk says, it's not as though it's a foregone conclusion that Khan has to "come down there" to beat Kirk. He could just have Kirk beamed to his brig, or have a photon torpedo set to 5 seconds beamed into the cavern. Either way, Khan wins.
  • When Khan was defeated in the Mutara Nebula, nobody thinks to beam him directly to the brig, and Genesis directly to the cargo bay? Instead, they ask him nicely to surrender, despite his history of becoming suicidal and trying to take everyone with him when defeated.

In order:
  • Khan probably would have used the earslugs anyway as part of his plan to get off the planet and get revenge on Kirk. He wasn't likely to just let them go on their way if they gave that explanation, and Starfleet wasn't likely to let him off the planet once they heard his story.
  • That's how Khan initially tried to get Genesis, just have Chekov ask for it. Dr. Marcus didn't buy it and demanded explanations. Besides, it wasn't Terrel or Chekov's call to decide when to test, it was hers, until Khan had them claim that Starfleet was taking control away from her team. Anyway, Khan wanted her to call Kirk to confirm, to get him involved.
  • As Khan said, "I've done far worse than kill you, Admiral. I've hurt you. And I wish to go on hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me, as you left her; marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet... buried alive!" He didn't kill or capture Kirk because he thought Kirk's current situation was a much better Fate Worse Than Death and Ironic Hell than anything he could personally do.
  • That plan requires that the Enterprise have working transporters. Transporters had been barely functional throughout the movie, they'd just gotten fixed enough to beam the group off of Regula 1, followed by the ship taking another pounding. Odds are, transporters were once again non-functioning.
09:35:57 PM Dec 7th 2013
What was Narrow Margin? I'm curious now that it's part of the trope namer