Discussion Franchise / SuperSentai

Yes, they do. What you didn't do in your long post however, is give any evidence to suggest that said universe does not also contain the shows. And it must contain the shows. In Gokaiger, all the events of the previous series still happened. What's fanon is the idea that this so-called "VS Universe" is somehow separate from the shows.

For some reason, lots of people have this insane idea that all the shows don't take place in the same universe. Despite all the movies and the ENTIRE SEASON which says otherwise. And then there's Angie Sue appearing on a poster in Kyoryuger, or To Q Ger mentioning Enetron. There is 0 evidence to suggest that this "VS Universe" exists, and a hell of a lot of evidence to suggest it doesn't.

Er... shoot. I hadn't thought of it that way. I had always assumed that the individual sentai series had been separate, but indeed, it looks like Toei has been stepping up the connections beyond just the movies. You're right, I misunderstood the argument. Nevermind. ^_^

This is a good point.

Why? This was pretty okay. Unlike Power Rangers, Super Sentai is made with children in mind so I think The Bumblebee would fit in. I mean, if they're making the show for kids, of course they're gonna make a kid-appeal character!). Here are some for examples:

• Himitsu Sentai Goranger: Kenji/Mido Ranger is normally The Smart Guy, but his claim so far was because he's the youngest of the team. Was that REALLY an instant qualification of The Smart Guy? Or was that because the other traditional positions are already taken?
• Dai Sentai Goggle Five: Kanpei/Goggle Black is mostly the Number Two and obviously The Lancer. This leaves Saburou/Goggle Blue as The Smart Guy, but... the only invention he got is the Jet Pack, only for one episode, and Kanpei is more involved in devising strategies and such and has MUCH more complex techniques. Would you STILL call Saburou The Smart Guy when Kanpei shows off his brain and strategy stuffs more. Plus if you recall, Kanpei's origins are a Chess player, which befits Smart Guy more, whereas Saburou is a hockey-player, not much places for The Smart Guy. On the other hand, we have a lot more episodes when Saburou deals with children, and combined that he's the second youngest member (and youngest male), this seems pretty fit in with The Bumblebee
• Hikari Sentai Maskman: If we go by the old position, Akira/Blue Mask would be the Smart Guy. However, he wasn't exactly the brainy guy of the team and wasn't that much calculating too. He's usually referred as 'The Smartass Kid' in the old formation... well Smartass doesn't always equal 'Smart'... does it? And he wasn't exactly onto unorthodox/surprise attacks like Chiaki Tani/Shinken Green, so his designation as The Smart Guy may be a little off.
• Dengeki Sentai Changeman: Yuuma/Change Pegasus originally held The Chick of all roles, in the original formation. Of course, having Sayaka/Change Mermaid, who's more in-control with her emotions, might make him qualify that, but... seriously, his only 'Chick' moment was his Freak Out. And giving him The Smart Guy position is a bit wrong too since like Goggle Blue, his only on-screen invention is that one ball. His fighting style is also described as 'possessing great power'. In the original Smart Guy formation, you usually fight with wits. And also add the fact that he's good with kids are also a shoe-in for Bumblebee position.
• Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger: Goushi/Mammoth Ranger is titled 'Warrior of Wisdom' and has a lot of times read up the lores of their tribes, so he would've fit in as The Smart Guy better than Boi/Tiger Ranger, the 'Warrior of Hope'. However, he's also Geki's second-in-command so it's demanded that he be The Lancer. Boi, aside of his young age, gets along well with kids better than most of the rest. So... calling him The Smart Guy when the title 'Wisdom' or 'Intelligence' isn't really granted to him seems a little off, is it?
• Ninja Sentai Kakuranger: Likewise, Saizou/Ninja Blue is referred as The Chick. He wasn't as scatterbrained as they think, just too much put in Butt-Monkey status. And he wasn't really as emotional (that was held by Tsuruhime/Ninja White). Again, once again I'd like to emphasis that Bumblebee here doesn't always mean 'the kid', 'good with children' is also a qualification. His scatterbrain disqualifies him as The Smart Guy, and he wasn't as overly emotional to be The Chick.
• Chouriki Sentai Ohranger: While I haven't really watched this, Yuuji/Oh Blue is considered The Smart Guy while most of the stuffs he had was lots of back flip style attacks. I'm starting to wonder why, when Momo/Oh Pink are known to be more 'intelligent and more prone to outwitting the enemy', something a Smart Guy would do.

I don't mean the old formation is bad. However, we need to make clear WHAT Sentai Smart Guys does, and also WHAT Sentai Big Guys does. I don't think merely being the tomboyish Action Girl would instantly qualify, or the tendency to put unfitting position just because every other position is taken. That is why I took The Bumblebee into consideration, because I've seen people put characters in the wrong position under the pretense of 'Because all other positions are already taken' (EG: Chisato/Mega Yellow being called The Big Guy while not really qualifying for any of its credentials (though now she's changed into The Heart for... er...), or jumping to Power Rangers stuffs, Lucas being considered The Chick while Jen being The Lancer, and meanwhile in Timeranger, Lucas' counterpart Ayase is The Lancer, and Jen's counterpart Yuuri is instead The Chick.

Bottom line, the Five-Man Band formation for Sentai is in need of some re-definition before we proceed. The first I can gather is that: The youngest doesn't always equal The Smart Guy! Tomboyishness also may not qualify as The Big Guy instantly! There's a lot we need to re-define.

I don't mean the youngest is the smart guy. And you are using one basic criteria to define the character as the bumblebee: they are the youngest. A bumblebee can also be seen as a weak fighter, or a clown. It can have negative connotations and undermine the character because of that. It depends how they act. What I'm suggesting is that on the main page, we list them as the smart guy in the five man band, because it's simpler and traditional, and then on the character sheets, we can refer to them as the bumblebee.

I think you're over-thinking this too much. But with regards to Yuuri being the Lancer, she's the Lancer, same with Ran not being the chick, or Tsurihime not being the chick. One thing that did get changed though is on the Flashman page, Sara is referred to as the chick. Despite the fact she shows her legs and wears skirts, she is essentially the smart guy of the team, and doesn't have that much chick qualities. However, if we have a female character as the big guy, we could change it to action girl or lady of war, just so it suits them. Action Girl does suit Chisato more.

Once again, we are over-thinking it. Let's revert it back to the original ones, and list Bumblebee on the character page. Like I said, Bumblebee can have negative connotations, and can affect the way newcomers and fans alike see a character.

You can get to the reverting to normal. But I'd like this discussion to go on. This is one thing that continually bugged me throughout how Sentai is handled in TV Tropes, yet nobody seems to care.

• Sara DOES have several things more 'Chick' though. She wasn't THAT cold, she's that warm-hearted. And she also does become emotional in the wake of being the only one to find her parents. Well, of course there's also Lou, but I rarely see her being 'exhausted' due to strength drain. However, she does have one emotional moment when she... took care of a monster.
• If Yuuri IS The Lancer, then Ayase becomes The Chick because 'the other positions are taken'. THAT is the issue, we make sure that we don't end up with 'he/she gets this position since the rest is already taken' (besides, considering Ayase's much more Fatalist attitude, he does fit more as The Lancer when Tatsuya was trying to make everyone look positive).
• Every ladies in Sentai is listed as an Action Girl anyway. Even if they're ditzy (Natsuki/Bouken Yellow) or a little shy (Kotoha/Shinken Yellow). So that qualification may be a little off.

The basic qualifications of Sentai Smart Guys and Big Guys have kind of confused me, as well as Tomboy and Girly Girl (especially the designation on Liveman, Turboranger, Dekaranger or Magiranger for example). So if you'd like to give out the qualifications, you're very much welcome. We can put that in the main page. For example, which one defines The Smart Guy: Complex thinking or simple thinking? Those two are totally different terms.

I was about to ask the same question. I added a picture for Battle Fever J that was the team in full-suit. (As it was lacking a picture.) However, I'll wait for a proper response before I continue with any image uploading.

EDIT: I have moved this discussion to Image Pickin', so please put your input there.

Allow me to point out some from what I know. Generally speaking, I think Sixth Rangers can qualify. Mind, though, that these are just pointing out likely candidates, so my range is a bit wide.

• For Go Go-V, Zylpheeza (also for the same reason as Gaiark, but far more serious) and maybe Denus. It doesn't have a lot of characters to point out, in addition to the lack of Sixth Ranger.
• GaoRanger's got Gao Silver... I think. The series' overwhelming mechas are also interesting.
• Hurricaneger has definitely Shurikenger.
• AbaRanger's AbareKiller is cool enough to qualify, and also being a villain.
• DekaRanger's Doggie Kruger. Period.
• MagiRanger's Wolzard.
• Bokenger... Well, maybe the Questers, I suppose? Or Boken Silver. Gaja is also interesting in a Narm Charm way. (But like Shinkenger, the whole cast is pretty interesting, so...)
• As for Go-onger... maybe the Gaiark Ministers (and maybe Hiramechimedes)? Probably not in the west, but their Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain status is more popular than it looks  ^*
  ^{Like the Dorombo gang from Yatterman, and Team Rocket.}
  . And Go-on Wings.
• Definitely Jii, Genta and maybe Juzo from Shinkenger. Maybe Ryunosuke too, since his theatricality stands out. (But really, pretty much the whole main cast is considered to be beloved, so...)
• Goseiger's not finished at the moment, but as things are going now, GoseiKnight is pretty cool himself.

These are my guess, for the very least. Hope it helps.

As the one who placed The Heart on Shunsuke and Isshu, my rationale was a mix of not knowing what else to put on them and some "other stuff." For Shunsuke, it was that he once befriended a Bohma monster with brother issues (with Shunsuke himself having a Dead Little Brother). Come to think of it, it was kind of a flimsy rationale.

For Isshu, it was because of the Gouraijer, he was the less "conservative" member. In episode 17, he did a Screw Destiny by refusing to kill his brother. The same brother who he idolized and whose decisions he respected. By my interpretation, he was more likely to look to the future than his brother. At least, that was my interpretation.

Mmmm, for the Gouraijer, maybe they should actually be the collective Lancers for the Hurricaneger team. Their ideals are "the Bonds of the Past," whereas the Hurricaneger represent "the bonds of the future." Isshu, like a typical Lancer, did go off on his own (the Kiraimaru episode), and has a relationship with The Chick

As for putting The Heart on Yuuma, it was a combination of his being relatable to children and animals. Perhaps his Heroic BSoD should instead count as a SUBVERSION of The Heart.

As for Junichi, perhaps it was him having Tetsuya as a surrogate Big bro that got him The Heart description. I don't know, considering I didn't put the trope on him. Perhaps he should instead get The Smart Guy position (with Megumi getting the co-position). I mean, he managed to kill Guildos not through shear firepower, but through Guild Zuno.

As for the Five-Man Band descriptions, this is the logic I had when assigning the designation of The Smart Guy:

The Smart Guy: The one involved in intellectual pursuits (I/E Goggle Blue, Go Blue) is the obvious qualifier. If that's not obvious, I think of them as the one who uses their speed or other defensive tricks to outwit foes. After all, part of The Smart Guy description does say some smart guys "will rely on stealth, guile, and cunning plans to trip up [their] enemies." They're not the strongest, or a physical combat expert, so they have to compensate somehow.

I guess the back-flipping part just comes with showing off their quickness. I wasn't thinking of back flips when I put down the Five-Man Band positions.

Okay... well that explains well about both The Smart Guy and The Heart. But there's one more trope whose usage in Super Sentai confused the hell out of me, and it's not part of Five-Man Band.

Tomboy and Girly Girl.

Sometimes, I wonder how in the hell which girl gets chosen as tomboy and which girl gets chosen as girly. The Zyuranger page explained well for its entry... but some entries like Dekaranger or Liveman confuses me. In case of Dekaranger... how is Umeko girly when she's the one who's more prone into outbursts (tomboys usually have shorter temper, especially when Umeko's compared to Jasmine who's more collected, and even Umeko looked up to her (more visibly))? And as for Liveman, even though Megumi is quite feminime, can do houseworks well, cries nearly every single episode... does her being a fighter (and shorter hair) instantly put her as a tomboy?

I'm pretty sure that there'd be more entries that confuse the hell out of me, so explanations would be much appreciated.

As this is an English language wiki, shouldn't we be using Western order throughout?

Hmm... Considering that the important thing is to keep it uniform, I'm fine either way. If most of the pages use the Western, there's not much point in isolating a few, so I'll support Western.

By the way, is this gonna apply to Kamen Rider pages as well?