Franchise Naruto Discussion

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11:12:12 PM Jun 21st 2017
So I'm late to the bandwagon and finally decided to check out this series.... It utterly BOGGLES my mind why Izanami is considered an Ass Pull technique. ANYONE with a basic knowledge of traditional Shinto should have seen it coming a mile away. Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, and Susano'o are the deities of the sun, moon, and storms, respectively. They were all fathered by Izanagi, one of the two gods who created the Japanese islands. And Izanami is the wife of Izanagi whom eventually ended up as an afterlife goddess after giving birth to Fire. Thus, if Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, Susano'o, and Izanagi all exist in the Naruto-verse as various jutsu, you should be expecting a counterpart of Izanagi to pop up sooner or later. And you should be expecting that it will be called Izanami. And if Izanagi has the power of a Game-Breaker, then Izanami should be equally powerful when it's finally revealed.

Am I really the only one who saw Izanami coming as soon as I knew there was a jutsu called Izanagi??
05:42:45 AM Jun 22nd 2017
The first and perhaps most important reason that Izanami (and Izanagi, for that matter) are considered AssPulls is that there's little to no foreshadowing about them. Not even a throwaway line, like: "The Mangekyo Sharingan offers the power to reshape reality", or something like that. Even Kaguya, who was a Giant Space Flea from Nowhere, got just enough foreshadowing to make you go "oh!" when you reread the War arc.

Your counter-argument to the above point is that anyone familiar with traditional Shinto should have seen it coming. The thing is, however, that not every viewer/reader of the series is familiar with traditional Shinto. If the author had explained some of the basic concepts / deities of Shinto (which, again, counts as Foreshadowing), then people would have connected the dots. Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, Susano'o, Izanami, Izanagi.... Without context, they are just cool-sounding names.

P.S. Hope the Archive Panic doesn't scare you off.
03:21:55 PM Jun 22nd 2017
The argument could be made that since the author was writing primarily for a Japanese audience, the going assumption would be that the majority of the people in the target audience would be familiar enough with Shinto to not need things spelled out for them or explained.
04:15:11 PM Jun 22nd 2017
edited by pave17
You're right; a Japanese audience would have some rudimentary, at the very least, knowledge of Shinto and therefore wouldn't be surprised by the revelation of a new jutsu named Izanami. It isn't the name that's an Ass Pull, it's the jutsu's function.

Before Tobi used Izanagi, there was nothing even hinting at such a jutsu's existence, but that could be handwaved as something the Big Bad would keep as a last resort. Izanami, on the other hand, which was designed for the sole purpose of countering Izanagi, is never mentioned —not even as Izanagi's only weakness.

Edit: After all, Game-Breaker doesn't equal Izanagi-counter-jutsu. Izanami could have been literally anything.
06:25:41 AM Apr 24th 2015
The Naruto Gaiden The Seventh Hokage series is out. May need to prepare a new subpage for it.
11:44:04 AM Sep 18th 2012
This debate was in the Conflicting Loyalty page. Could people check what's left is close to accurate, and if not, correct it without Thread Mode or ludicrous spoilers?

  • Naruto. Itachi, anyone? I mean, the guy killed his family to protect his village, despite the fact they were being accused of trying to destroy the village without any proof other than some not-so-long-dead leader of the clan could do it (the same not-so-long-dead leader who actually HELPS HIM KILL THEM ALL). Someone here really has screwed up loyalties.]]
    • There was proof. Itachi had no choice but to execute the clan after the negotiations with the Third Hokage failed. Only Madara-the Complete Monster Big Bad claims the Uchiha were oppressed.]]
    • Actually this was affirmed by Danzo, who tried to Hannibal Lecture Sasuke for "wasting" Itachi sacrifice, from being a failure as a Ninja (who are selfless, replaceable tools) and declaring that without the Uchiha genocide there would have been a 4th Ninja war. It didn't stick and that the Nidaime Hokage did snub the Uchiha Clan because Senju prejudice. The entire Complete Monster, Villany of the Uchiha is in fact Fanon from haters of the Uchihas (especially Sasuke). This show also in Sasuke, who had the loyalty of his brother wishes against his Clan desire. He chose the latter.
    • It most likely comes from how two Uchihas have attempted to destroy the Village. Not to mention Madara is a liar who lies a lot and isn't even the real Madara, who was the one who attacked the village with the Nine Tails, which resulted in the Elders and Danzo to persecute the Uchihas to the point that they planned a coup in the first place. Itachi's friend Shisui Uchiha who was ordered to watch him in case he attempted to betray the Uchihas for the Village actually sides with the Village and tells his friend Itachi to protect it even at the cost of the clan. Itachi has also shown that he choose to kill the Uchihas of his own free will because he valued peace and the village over the Uchiha clan and was willing to use Shisui's eye that was in the crow Naruto was forced into swallowing to brainwash Sasuke into protecting the village for the rest of life while leaving Sasuke subconsciously aware of everything going on around him.]] The village as a whole did not persecute the Uchihas and the Third Hokage even attempted to get peace between both sides which failed.
12:27:37 PM Oct 17th 2014
Should we create a Masashi Kishimoto page ?
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