Franchise Blaz Blue Discussion

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ChrisX
Topic
02:09:46 AM Sep 29th 2016
edited by ChrisX
Why hasn't this page redirected to the Franchise namespace, again? This thing has been more than Video Game, considering we have Alter Memory (Anime), Stage Play and some... 'spin offs'...
Getta
05:08:57 AM Sep 29th 2016
Because nobody asked yet. :P
angelthread1w9
Topic
07:37:00 PM Jun 28th 2014
What's the theme that plays for some scenes for Ragna's story mode in the second and third game, if the whole soundtrack is listed in the Awesome Music section?

Is it the one called "this track from Continuum Shift"? Because it doesn't work anymore because youtube is freaking gay. T_T

I'm glad I at least know the name of the music box one though, Stardust Memory. :) The battle music is good of course, but the serenity of the cutscene music is good too.

Just like Touhou, eh? ;)
angelthread1w9
07:48:26 PM Jun 28th 2014
Finally found it! <3 It's Hollow. :) That one is really good. ^_^
ChrisX
Topic
07:57:12 PM Aug 28th 2012
Hey, with Chrono Phantasma announced... we should try on rearranging the Spoiler Policy for this series again. So what are the terms no longer deserve to be called spoilers, and what still deserves? Thanks.
ChrisX
Topic
01:31:00 AM Mar 2nd 2012
Too many... overly hype... things in this site about BlazBlue... this series could really use some trimming down on the hyperbole.

Starting from many many overhype on Hazama and Makoto.
danceljoy
Topic
09:47:21 PM Jun 24th 2011
edited by danceljoy
I demand a revision or complete deletion of the trope Darker and Edgier compared to Guilty Gear. The statement below is a pure example of Did Not Do The Research:

In Guilty Gear, good guys shall always be good guys, and even bad guys (like Testament or Baldhead/Faust) may turn good in future installments. Irredeemable characters at least have an excuse for their actions (Justice to preserve the Gear, I-No being loyal to That Man), or have something that makes you pity him (Eddie may be a malevolent shadow, but his end at Millia's hand can be rather touching), and people usually lived their lives quite normally and happy. Good factions remain good (Jellyfish Pirates, the Police/Holy Order), and it's very clear that only the PWAB/That Man's faction can be considered bad, and even their goals are shady between good and evil at best.

SPOILERS and important points ignored:
  • Justice did not make the lives of Gears better, she just forcefully switched their allegiance to her and enslaved them for her own sense of justice. Just look how the Gears in Ganymede live, non of them is loyal to Justice and she is even referred as the "Herald of Destruction."
  • I-No is loyal to That Man in a twisted way. She makes a mess of everything and even ruins his own plans, just because she believes that she's doing good. And it was never to make That Man happy, it was all for herself.
  • Yes Eddie has an excuse, but Zato doesn't have an excuse for coercing and manipulating Millia and Venom into assassinating people. Millia accepted a Forbidden Beast and lost something because of this. And they kill anyone, they make no distinction between innocent or guilty. They just do the job. He is also creepily obssessed with Millia and he treats her like a most prized sex toy/weapon while Venom silently accepts that Zato will never love him back. What is the reason for Zato's jerk-ness? He wants to climb up to being leader of the Guild, that's all.
    • And also, Milia never forgave herself from her guilt of killing people and she never recovered from Zato's treatment as she deliberately isolates herself from people. She is also being constantly attacked by assassins who branded her as a traitor.
  • The Police is corrupt too. In the Drama CD, a police officer tries to murder Ky by shooting at him. Note that guns are illegal, and the officer wants to kill Ky to clear any evidence of his corruption.
  • And if you think that the Holy Knights/Catholic Church is pure good, remember that a similar kindhearted ex-knight priest tried to trap Dizzy inside a burning house and orders people to kill her just because she's a Gear.
  • The PWAB converted Testament into a Gear that causes him to lose his mind and kill people. The PWAB also experiments on Japanese people and collects Gears. Note that they don't even considered Gears as creatures and they are called just "weapons." And the reason for this? Just for science perhaps.
  • Axl is optimistic but he gets transported to ANY time period randomly and often. What kind of life is that?
  • Baiken never moved on from the death of her parents, and she may even get worse in the next installment.
  • Testament sentenced himself into solitude inside a forest. Considering that Gears are immortal and Dizzy lives a different life, he may live alone forever.
  • Likewise, this is what happened to Sol. He has been living only for revenge for a hundred years or more and is VERY unsuccessful getting it.
  • That Man never did anything good, just try to cite anything in the story mode that will make him seem like a good guy. All he does is offer mysterious, cryptic words to the cast that still doesn't tell us about his real plan.
  • Valentine is born all for the purpose executing a plan. When she begins to have emotions, all the memories of Aria inside her confused her. This turned to rage and she gained enough autonomy to rebel against her "mother." Now we don't know if she has her own identity, or if she's Aria reincarnated or just a doll. As of the end of GG 2, millions of her are being born into the world.

Given these FACTS, where did the line "people live their lives quite normally and happy" come from? Are you kidding me!?Also, That Man and PWAB's actions are shady between good and evil? Where did you get that?

My objection to the Darker and Edgier comparison clearly show that there is a dispute over it. And please take this seriously because this troper hates it when GG is described in a way that is misleading.
ChrisX
10:38:44 PM Jun 24th 2011
edited by ChrisX
Interesting... However:
  • Justice: No comment.
  • Even if I-No was doing it for herself, That Man would come and stop her plans, at least shifting the world to a lighter shade. Not Hazama, though. Imperator lets Hazama run wild like crazy, causing despair here and there and probably got a seal of approval, rather than "That's not what I wanted! Punishment time, Hazama!", basically shifting the world to a darker shade.
  • Zato is dead, though. Author Existence Failure aside, he got his comeuppance. The reason why Millia quit the Guild was because her conscience got the better of her. And even if she was being hunted, she's been one of the proofs that even bad guys can redeem themselves due to conscience.
  • As corrupt as it is, the Police isn't the world-class dictatorship ruler like NOL, thus its corruption aren't that widespread.
  • All right, PWAB can be considered pure evil. But... That Man? He's just straddling, if his treatment to I-No. While he may be cryptic, he's less subtle than Saya who made it clear that their planned World of Death is to ensure that they have the grip on the world in their dictatorship, and Hazama made it clear that he wants people to despair for his amusement. That Man may end up eviler than NOL, but for the moment, he might've been on a higher morality scale.
  • Despite all those, Axl really never lose his optimism.
  • If you remember the first GG, even if he's manipulated, Testament pretty much wanted humanity be destroyed. In any cases of bad ends, he goes to that goal. But canon stuffs state that he wants to atone for his sins rather than going back to the bad way.
  • Any events in which Baiken snaps to the good guy is usually casted into the bad ends (sad music). In any event where she shows her Ax-Crazy credentials? Directed to someone like I-No. She hasn't really snapped on someone close to her, like, say, Anji.

Maybe I was wrong about people living quite normally and happily, but tell me one thing that can make BlazBlue look LIGHTER than Guilty Gear, where NOL don't pull their punches in being dicks, allow two Complete Monster like Hazama and Relius to roam free with full approval, Kokonoe losing it, those that are of pure good are either taken like a joke (Tao and Bang), or too naive to the world to make a difference (Noel), while the one who's good and taken seriously (Litchi) pulls a Face–Heel Turn and became antagonistic, thus signifying that 'Good is Ineffectual/Dead', the hero (Ragna) approves mass murder at times and wasn't even as 'Marty Stu-ish' as Sol in terms of power (so he may end up being Hazama's whipping boy or continue to unable to stop his gambits, which he provided daily unlike That Man who's only in for one gambit, while on the other hand, Sol usually trounces I-No). And... the rival (Jin)... was just as bad, or even worse (even if he's being directed by Jubei) when compared to Ky.

Well, can you REALLY explain that things are lighter than Guilty Gear in BlazBlue?
danceljoy
01:42:19 AM Jun 25th 2011
edited by danceljoy
Where is the line where I said that BB is lighter than GG? I don't think I said something like that. I myself accept the fact that BB is dark and never light. And I demanded deletion OR revision.

And in terms of comparison, one should realize that GG and BB has different types of darkness in them. GG mirrors real-world more than BB that is more fantasy. We can both agree to the amount of suffering BB characters have, and there's also hopelessness and desperation in situations. However, GG has more political, racial and historical emphasis. What happened to Africa? South-East Asia? Why is the USA gone and why is it being ruled by assassins in the shadows?

If BB bad guys are motivated by evil, the bad factions in GG are motivated by greed and lust for power. BB world is crazy, but it is blatantly unrealistic, while lots of story elements in GG minus the Gears and magic are outright realistic.

Oh another interesting thing about the IPF is that they arrest anybody who does some sort of science in their standards. Axl is arrested when he just mentioned Einstein's formula. This kinda reminds me of Galileo times.

Oh Sol being Marty-Stuish in power? Hmmm... despite that it took him 50 years to create the Out Rage, a hundred years to defeat Justice, while Ky is considered the savior of mankind in his teens. Also, Sol in his 100% full Gear form was defeated by That Man soooo easily :3

Oh and bad characters got redeemed? No comment for that now, but I'm working an analysis of it. And Baiken snapping to a good guy? Ky Kiske *cough* *cough* Even if she kicks I-No,an acceptable target, she wasn't content and continued being Ax-Crazy, that's why she's being arrested. I forgot to say that Venom is so pure-hearted and unfit to be an assassin that he was almost disposed by the Guild then Zato saved him. Venom's love and loyalty to Zato caused him to do everything for his sake, despite Zato never loving him in return. Venom never does anything for himself. Zato being dead does not make the series lighter since the impact of his treatment is still there.

And about Ky, yeah he's good and noble and heroic, but one of these days I'll write an analysis about him, I'm not going to write anything about him now.

Again, I don't want to prove that BB is lighter or GG is darker, I just find the description of GG disputable, and I have no complaints of your description of BB. So hearing these, I hope you revise the Darker and Edgier entry, (though I really wish that it should be removed.)

  • New Edit *
I forgot that some evil villains in GG are dead, unknown to most fans or makes little impact to the storyline, but they're still evil. In Lt A Novel, the Blackard Company is selling a "miracle drug" which are actually Gear cells. People who drank it gets eaten alive by their Gear parts when Solaria sings. He created Solaria to take control of Gears and everybody who went to the hospital in that village never comes out. Raymond in GG Judgment turned all the inhabitants of a whole island into horrible Eldritch Abomination, and the player has to hack them on the way to him. Ky actually regretfully mercy-killed a woman with tentacles.
ChrisX
05:21:26 AM Jun 25th 2011
edited by ChrisX
If you want to remove it, go ahead. You do make good points... although one thing still stands between making the world of BB look Darker and Edgier: How much of a Crapsack World it is compared to Guilty Gear? As far as I know, while Justice decimated the majority of Japan, I thought she was prevented to do more harm to others, whereas Black Beast decimated nearly the whole world. Perhaps it's still Darker and Edgier, but just slightly... what do you think?

But debating like this is fun.

BB villains seem to be motivated with also lust for power. The NOL already got the grip on world order, no way in hell they're gonna let that go.

... When was it mentioned that Axl was arrested?

Well Baiken REALLY did snap at Ky, but was it to the point of mutilating him? And was it counted as her good end? I finished Baiken's good end where she reunited with Anji and not go into rampage (while he annulled his Face–Heel Turn), and the good ending music plays. So I think the producers are trying to get Baiken not flip off completely.

Well, even if Ky was a prime target of manipulation for the PWAB and member of the 'corrupt' Police Force, he remains to be what makes the world of Guilty Gear much lighter than you think: As much as the world is in chaos, there's always one heroic good guys you can always trust (and take seriously): Ky, one that wasn't so naive or at least working on to stop being naive. In BlazBlue? As said above, the one nearly qualifying that was Litchi, but that was completely destroyed the moment she pulled a Face–Heel Turn and the facts given that she wasn't as noble or selfless as compared to Ky. In fact, her Face–Heel Turn was the last straw for me to include all those Darker and Edgier, because it signifies in the world of BlazBlue that 'Goodness is Dead', when the one closest to The Messiah, Purity Personified and such was even on the enemy side.

.... Yes, I just admitted that I was the one who put that in the first place. But was all that wrong? (AKA needs to be included in the further revision)
danceljoy
07:04:02 AM Jun 25th 2011
edited by danceljoy
EDITED

Yeah, debating is fun especially if it makes sense, and we are making a lots and lots of sense. This thread is pretty educational. I deleted the trope with your permission but we can always bring it back once we reach the common ground. Your entry about BB is NOT wrong, but the GG one is just too optimistic considering all the points I pointed out. BB being a Black and Grey Morality is a valid point, but one should NEVER miss all the metaphysical concepts in GG.

If we compared the two universes, I personally think that GG is darker, but if we compare the characters, BB characters have more woobieness.

Anyway, about the Justice thingy. She targeted and decimated Japan first because they have a huge potential to be her enemies due to their magical affinity because of their spiritual lifestyle. Considering that China and Korea have similarities in Japan, those two countries may have been the next target. The series offers us little detail on what happened to other countries but keep in mind that Africa, the Middle East or SE Asia is never mentioned at all. And the very powerful USA is now just "A Country." Prior to Justice's rebellion, people are already using Gears for warfare anyway. And also, most characters came from Europe and Ky's story says that it became a melting pot for different religions and races so Europe may have been the most decent place to live in during that time.

It's actually hard to compare GG with the BB world because GG mirrors real life issues. In GG, there is prostitution, banditry(Jellyfish pirates), poverty and practically any illegal activity we have in society today plus everybody is recovering from a hundred year war. And to boot, one big corrupt body is the only force to take care of all of these: the IPF. BB is more of a fantasy Crapsack World with crazy villains while GG is more of a Crapsack World with heavy realistic undertones.

Axl is almost arrested in the Drama CD, luckily he was able to escape, I have to clarify that. He was drunk and mentioned Einstein's formula. The Baiken thing is pretty minor, I just pointed it out to show that GG character's aren't living happily.

About BB, from the start Litchi is different than Ky in a sense that she's a good doctor rather than a hero. Litchi siding up with NOL proves that she's more realistic than idealistic, since she'll take the most effective method. I'm not an expert in BB, but this is how I see it. Nobody take Bang seriously, but he is still serious and is still determined.

Ky on the other hand, embodies the Knight in Shining Armor type but in Overture, he lost his freedom to pursue justice. His situation changed from keeping peace within the populace into making peace with Gears, though I'm not sure if anybody would support him. And yes he is a genuinely good guy and all but he's pretty much a puppet to make people happy when the government is doing dirty work in secret. Ky is more an example of a noble guy who just cannot have a break with a really sad, crazy, and complicated love-life, and a hero that defeated destructive monsters, but is pretty powerless against scheming humans.

In a way, there's hope in BB considering that Ragna and other characters are clearly against NOL. Though the process is bloody and massacre is involved, there can be a clear winner. One side can win, and when the NOL dies, you pull up the biggest thorn. This is what happened during the Crusades in GG, where the humans won and the Gears are defeated. But in GG, the aftermath makes things more complicated for naive Ky since he realized that the war just solves the survival problem and there are tons more. How can people rebel against the IPF or UN? They can't because those two, though corrupt, are necessary for political stability. Even if you destroy the Guild or the PWAB(which is impossible for now), it will take a miracle to weed out corrupt government officials with a corrupt police force.

Again, I'm sorry I cannot provide a clear answer on what world is more crapsack but I can say that GG is surprisingly realistic. I'll update my analysis in the GG page one of these days, though I doubt it is soon. But I will include lots of dark stuff there next time.

ChrisX
08:21:15 AM Jun 25th 2011
Same way you wouldn't really put Chipp in seriousness due to his zany Engrish attitude, even though Master Tsuyoshi really taught him to be good and he even became a Zepp officer (and even got a drama CD when he did good things). As much as he can be considered one of the whitest morality character (probably not, though, due to his history as a drug addict), you wouldn't count on him seriously to whiten the GG world, thus even if Bang has the Phoenix Rettenjou, you WOULDN'T count on him seriously to whiten the BB world (that falls to Ragna). Thus Bang still falls squarely on 'genuine good guys taken like a joke'.

Justice may want to go for the rest, but the main point was, before she could, she was stopped dead on track. Black Beast wasn't like that, it wasn't until that nearly all the world have been decimated that it's stopped. So maybe you could say something along the line of 'Black Beast has more success than Justice'.

Even if Litchi didn't start out a hero like Ky, you have to admit that in the middle of the crazies happening in CT, she stands out as one of the only genuinely good character, and probably the only good character who was taken seriously. Now that she pulled a Face–Heel Turn, it darkened the world of BlazBlue, in a sense that "If you wanna be taken seriously, you cannot be pure good." or like I said, "Goodness is dead." At least even if Ky was manipulated and such, he still did his best to do good in whatever capabilities he can. It was his core and obviously stated. Litchi's core has grayed out due to her action: Was her core being the genuinely good woman who cared for everyone or the only one she cared about was Arakune, the rest can go to hell for all she cares? Her actions seemed to speak as if "I don't care about the rest, I must save him at all cost, even if I become a Complete Monster!". The selfless kind Litchi seemed to die and never come back with that action, and replaced with selfish, obsessed Litchi, thus darkening the world of BB if the near-saint can turn out like that

Hell, I think I left this be, but this very wiki has been taking potshots of Litchi due to her new Heel status, every description of people related to her always mention that "They don't know she betrayed them" (except Linhua, because I fixed it), and praising Makoto as the next 'only genuinely good person', never mind that she may be too lulzy to be taken seriously or her act, even if it's for protecting Noel, was blatant treason (oh, and praising her as the next Queen of Ms. Fanservice, surpassing Litchi because she stays Face all the time!).

I'm sorry that I put in a lot about Litchi, but I must apologize for it. I let my madness run wild and considered BlazBlue pretty dark just because of that one event (the realistic route, I thought, was 'Listen to others and stay put, don't dirty her reputation as a good person')
danceljoy
11:48:02 PM Jun 25th 2011
edited by danceljoy
I can understand your passion for Litchi's case, in the same way that I'm obsessed with Ky's love story. But I don't believe that her character pushes the whole plot into a dark pit. Also, you seem to forget about Jubei, Rachel and Noel, they're totally not sinister.

First is that people have diverse views on Litchi from the start. Other sees her purely as a boob goddess, while some like you see her as a conflicted character. Second, one can also argue that Litchi is not Pureness Personified, but rather she just uses it as a mask to hide her obsession of saving Arakune, or as a form of atonement for her wrongdoings. This brings me to my third point, I'm pretty sure that Litchi was doing something with Sector Seven prior to the events of CT, though I'm not really sure what it is.

Also, Justice and the Black Beast are different. BB(Black Beast) is practically mindless, has no agenda, alone and is a pure calamity. Justice, however, is man-made and is created that way by humans. BB gives us no message, while the Crusades in GG is an allusion to religion versus science. I can compare the BB to an unexpected comet hitting earth, almost killing everyone in a few years, while Justice is a science project went wrong that resulted in a World War that lasted for 100 years. A short war can cause great horror, but it is just experienced by one generation compared to long wars.

And the amount of destruction is not what accounts alone for darkness. In I Am Legend, most people are dead or zombies, and it is in fact, dark. But Berserk is around 10 times darker because of its horror themes, despite it having a lot of living people.

Because I don't want to plagiarize others' analysis, here's some good threads: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11949-Analysis-Commentary-Review-Discussion-of-GG-s-story&p=1061981

And here: http://comments.deviantart.com/5/41609387/2059998176

Check the people who posted, they aren't just average fans.

ChrisX
08:08:58 AM Jun 26th 2011
edited by ChrisX
The reason why I think Litchi's defection was one of the points to the show becoming dark was that she was at first presented as your sanctuary for sanity, she even got picked for the 'Teach Me' segment. And now? Bet to you that if the next BB comes out, Litchi won't even teach you again, because, "I am too busy saving Arakune. Screw you."

Me...? Actually see her conflicted? You probably misunderstood me. I've always hated how the conflict turned her to a Heel and would like nothing more than her returning into a Face like she was in CT and staying that way, opposing bad guys rather than supporting them. Even if it means her losing Arakune the hard way, she had to move on and return to her status quo of being a good, caring Face. So probably, you would consider me seeing her as the 'boob goddess' and wants her to return to that state. Yes, I just admitted how petty I got.

Though I do admit that if her conflict didn't make her do a Face–Heel Turn, I would've been more accepting. It was her status as Heel that aggravated me to no end.

The one thing she did in Sector Seven was actually a research about manipulating seithr. Kokonoe noted that the process looked like how to create a Nox Nyctores. However, Litchi never published it for some reason, though Relius already caught wind of it (thus explaining how Hazama knows). This is detailed in the EX Story 2 in the PSP release of Continuum Shift II. But atone? What atone? Sector Seven wasn't exactly good personified, it's done some bad things. But it's seen as a lesser evil than NOL... so why did you think she did something wrong? The one thing that can be called 'wrong' in her mind is probably only 'not preventing Lotte becoming Arakune'. Which brought me to this point: You think she's conflicted, but Mori has been pushing it that her life revolve around Lotte only, thus giving people vibes and fears that she think the world revolve around Lotte only, and if she has to destroy it for him... she would, because only Lotte matters.... Okay I think I'm gonna stop here if you know my credentials.

Jubei was unplayable for the most time, but he probably has other plans. Rachel, even if she's working for the greater good, is snarky as hell and probably would drive you insane with her antics, or she got too bored with you and fell asleep while you sought for sanity. And as I said with Noel, she's... way too naive to change the world or be a pillar of sanity. Then again, considering her allusions and comparison with Dizzy, and the rumors about her being Mori Toshimichi's favorite character, I probably wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to kick Litchi off her throne and replace it with Noel.

In comparison, I do believe that in the world of GG, even if things got really dark as you say, you can always visit Ky to seek sanctuary and sanity. He may be naive and a puppet ruler, but he works on to protect other people as much as he can and gives care about them greatly. Litchi USED to be that in CT, only that her range was about Orient Town and Kaka Village, but by CS, her range became narrow, only involving Arakune... at least probably Ky still put protection and care to the people of Illurya despite finding a way to free Dizzy from the sealing rather than abandoning them. What she acted right now was like if Ky joins the Assassins or PWAB because they know how to unfreeze Dizzy and make her not vanish due to Valentine's presence. Ky would absolutely refuse, I'm sure, thus ensuring that there is a figure of goodness in the world of GG... as compared to BB where the figure of goodness is treated as an enemy and a Heel. And that is why I still think that Guilty Gear is still lighter, albeit thanks to your stuffs, I do know that it's only slightly rather than way more.

Also... that Deviantart comment? The other guy gave out the scales of 'Light' 'Dark' and 'Neutral', but... what was his requirements over it? Why did he put Litchi in Dark? Because she's now a Heel? Hell, why was Tager also listed as 'Dark'? I thought he's something of a textbook Lawful Neutral, so he would've been in Neutral... People do have a different criteria for light and dark so perhaps you'd like to enlighten us for it.

We do apologize for this.
danceljoy
08:57:45 AM Jun 26th 2011
edited by danceljoy
Hooray for Tropers who loves walls of text!!! (Us LOL)

Conflicted character= character with (internal) conflict, that's how I meant it. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. By atonement, it is exactly what I meant, Litchi MAY be helping others to atone for her guilt of letting that happen to squiggly. And honestly, when I played CT I already had the feeling that she'll do something nasty out of desperation on saving Arakune. That's how I see it. And it's no issue to me if you see her as a boob goddess, I deeply love Dizzy even if 70% of her fans are perverted fanboys.

And if you want to discuss matters with Darkside Ky in deviantart, I suggest you PM him or post in my thread in dustloop, he visits that thread. You may also join the discussion, though I would like to keep the thread GG oriented. He knows a lot more than me and he might give you better arguments than what I can present.

About Ky, him being a sanctuary makes things even sadder. He doesn't get protected in return, he is always "the shield for the innocent" (Holy Knight oath) and is never shielded. Also, to be clear about Ky, his short story tells us that he outright refused the position as king knowing their agenda, but accepted it because the government officials told him that they know about his "pretty wife." Though this might not be a heel turn, this qualifies as a painful submission to the government. Yes, he's a hero to the core but we don't know if one day he'll just snap because of all the pressure. (Actually, he might have snapped at Sol many times to release his stress.)

Also, keep in my that Ky is able to do his heroic work because of I-No's time trolling. He's supposed to die a early, painful and pointless death. That Man never commanded I-No to save Ky, I-No just saved Ky because of pure intuition.

EDIT In terms of sanity, I must admit that BB has less of it. But that's exactly the point, you can relate more to GG characters than BB characters. You can hardly find BB characters that can be found in our human population. You know that there are Kys in society now(me), Millias, Venoms, Johnnys and Testaments etc etc. Being more unrealistic does not equate to a darker atmosphere. In BB you just have to think about the story and the characters, GG makes you think of real life. I know because my country has a really corrupt government and I'm currently studying theology and ethics. /EDIT

We see things differently in a sense that I don't see Litchi as Ky's equivalent. And even if Ky being alive prevented the GG-verse from total doom, he's just part of a huge plan that only That Man knows. And GG 2 Overture has a new set of enemies that Ky is lalmost powerless against. And though Ky is inspiring and very Christian, the line where he would "surely change his views when he meets That Man" by Justice scares me. And also, I don't believe that the Black and Grey Morality component is enough reason for darken a world. Gankutsuou is a Black and White Morality anime, but I find it darker than BB.

ChrisX
03:24:16 PM Jun 26th 2011
What do you suppose to be GG's morality stance then? Grey vs Grey?

And when I meant 'boob goddess', it just means 'Good, motherly, pure, caring, Face woman who got big boobs'. The thing about conflict and desperation, however, is that I always believed that Litchi HAS a common sense of good and evil, but turns out she either didn't or tosses it away.

Early, painful, pointless death. Is that how you also see Litchi's death if she ever refuses to become Heel? I've always believed that clean death are always better than a life where you become a mockery of your image (In Litchi's case, it's her goodness). Did I go wrong?

This was all probably because I became completely butthurt that Litchi becomes a Heel. If Ky was to ever become a Heel, I really wouldn't know what to do. But alignments became something of a Serious Business to me, I don't want Litchi to show shades of True Neutral and only give out the vibes of Neutral Good. I believe that her Face–Heel Turn causes her to lose fans as well as it being declared as a Wall Banger or Dethroning Moment of Suck. It all casts doubts in her true self... was it obsession, or her caring attitude? I would act accordingly depending on which one, but this one seemed so blurry. What was her image in your opinion? Goodness incarnate (kinda like Ky)?

So with those comments, am I supposed to thank I-No? Complete Monster like her deserve none, I think.
danceljoy
05:57:39 PM Jun 26th 2011
About GG's morality stance, I doubt that there's a definite moral conflict anyway between characters. It's more of a conflict between different entities and perspectives. I don't want to put a specific alignment to GG for now, I have yet to analyze it. Try to read That Man's story, he dubbed something as an "Apocalypse," a third party involved between "God" and evolution, and in Overture, he says it is happening. And That Man's agenda is still too unknown to give him an alignment.

What I meant about early, painful and pointless death is different from what could happen to Litchi. When Ky died, he was just 13 and it is because he believed that he was saving I-No, who is actually watching him die. If Litchi dies, it's different. She's an adult, knows definitely what she is doing, and knows the consequences of her past actions, whether she deserves them or not.

About I-No, I really don't know. We all know that if Ky is dead, the GG-verse is as good as hell. This is one of the reason's why I think GG is really dark, I mean, if the time-trolling Manipulative Bitch leads Ky to his death, everybody will be miserable. But when she decided to let the boy live out of amusement, everybody lives in a relatively better life. Ky believes that God led him to his path, and ironically, I-No fits that criteria.

About what I think of Litchi, actually I haven't played CS but I have read what happened to the characters. I have always seen Litchi as a compassionate motherly woman but from the start but I really think that her desperation in saving squiggly runs deeper than her good persona. In short, I think she is really good person but very emotionally weak. If she hadn't been so weak, she would have continued being a Face. This is how I see her.

Ky is strong because he strongly believes in God, Litchi doesn't have a God. But like what I said, either I-No screw's God's plan or her playing of god resulted into a better future.

Can we transfer discussion to the GG discussion page? You can start a new topic there. That page is so lonely it needs some love :( And also, if you haven't read my Analysis on GG yet, you can check it out.

ChrisX
06:29:39 PM Jun 26th 2011
You can go ahead and make the page. Unfortunately, I'm pretty much your reverse, being more into BB and GG. Not to say that I disrespect GG, in fact I like'em very much. I'm not sure what I can give out in that, but... I probably would start sending PM to you, so we can discuss stuffs more private and about my feelings rather than BB in general (this is restricting me).

In the meantime, I do made up some analysis about Litchi and how she acted. A knowledgable person like you, even if you concentrate on GG more, can find something off there and give fix or replies.
SomeNewGuy
Topic
11:02:58 AM Jan 20th 2011
Chris X, I think you may be starting to get a tad obsessive over Litchi's actions in Continium Shift.
ChrisX
02:55:13 PM Jan 20th 2011
edited by ChrisX
In... what way? Denouncing them as actions of Scrappydom and DMOS? I'm only putting what's on the audience's minds... as far as the stuffs I saw. I mean, look at some fandom like Game FAQS (PS3 Board CS)... come back and tell me if Litchi wasn't considered a stupid idiot Scrappy there.

Just the facts, pal.
ChrisX
Topic
11:10:58 PM Jan 1st 2011
I'm starting to think that Hazama is leering to the status of Villain Sue... do you think this has been true?
MightyKombat
08:40:25 AM Jan 4th 2011
Well to be fair, we're only two games in thus far. Probably give it til the third game to see if Haza Terumi will be a legitimately interesting master planner villain we can all love or a successor to Aizen in pure "lol planned for that".

Plus he's a troll so
ChrisX
03:18:31 PM Jan 4th 2011
The next novel is Terumi with focus, while the other Heroes are Zoidbergs. How... do you think he's not suetiful yet or rather a very liked author pet? "Mori's pet characters are Noel, Carl and Hakumen" MY ASS. Hazama is included over there.
MightyKombat
01:47:58 PM Jan 7th 2011
There's a novel about him now? Honestly I didn't know that.

I'm probably gonna give one last chance. At least until the inevitable third game where you beat him only it pulls a Budokai Tenkaichi 2 with LOL YOU'RE DEAD ANYWAY HE WINS AND SAID PLAN YOU FOILED ONLY SERVED ONE OF HIS OWN LOLOLOLOL.
SeraphimSwordmaster
05:35:37 PM Apr 16th 2011
While I agree that Hazama is in danger of Villain Sue territory, I think he has a long way to go before he reaches Aizen's level. Terumi, for one, can be legitimately defeated. Hakumen, Rachel and Unlimited!Ragna have all handed his ass to him, and even if a Xanatos Gambit did figure into it, a loss is still a loss. Aizen, on the other hand never loses. What happened in Deicide was more of a "loss by default" since the Hogyoku took away his powers. While Terumi would also be much easier to deal with in the event that all of his toys were taken away, it's still possible to defeat him even when he does have them.

In my book, the one to blame for this is Rachel. The one person whom Terumi has admitted could beat him never goes all out. We have never seen Rachel fight with all of her power, and it's because she insists on standing back and letting Ragna do all the work that things have gotten so far out of hand. If Rachel would actually get off her fat, bloodsucking ass and do something more than snark at him, preferably something involving lightning, the heroes might have an easier job, but nope. This is something Ragna's got to do himself. What the hell, Rachel?

On a side note, I think that 100% Hakumen would be stronger than old Haz. He's only at about 20% of his current power level, and yet he was capable of wounding Terumi to the degree that Relius needed to step in with Kusanagi to give his buddy a hand.
Hodou
09:57:41 PM Nov 10th 2011
Rachel can't interfere because she's just an Observer. If she began to play a more significant part in the story, I guess they said she would disappear. In the opening, you can tell that even though she's still indignant about it, she's definitely genuinely afraid of Takamagahara. Of course, now that they've been put out of commission, maybe Rachel will be able to let loose a little in BlazBlue 3.

Speaking of Terumi, my ideal situation in the story would be to see Terumi defeated at the end of the third game, and then have a benevolent, recovering Kazuma playable in the fourth with a "cleaned-up" version of Hazama's fighting style.

(And, of course, Jubei and Nine. Because yeah, everyone wants them.)
Xien
Topic
03:40:35 PM Dec 12th 2010
Should there be a separate character sheet for Phase 0 characters?
AMNK
01:46:30 PM Dec 23rd 2010
What about adding them to Characters/BlazBlue?
SomeGuy
08:11:59 PM Dec 23rd 2010
If you split off a Phase 0 page you can have a Phase 0 character sheet. Otherwise, yeah, they just go in BlazBlue.
mega-dark
Topic
06:51:10 PM Dec 9th 2010
While going threw and playing both CT and CS I noticed a trope but wasn't sure if it was one. During the "True Ending" of both games, after the credits and the plot twist, there is always a message at the end of the game. I noticed in the background with those messages, there were emblems and normally those emblems end up belonging to the new characters in the next game. So does this count as a Freeze-Frame Bonus?
ChrisX
Topic
04:14:38 PM Dec 8th 2010
edited by ChrisX
Last time, we've got editors who're all crazy about Mu when announced. And now, the same thing seems to be applied to Makoto. Perhaps my fanboyism just reacts too negatively, but being a fan of Litchi, I find the whole BlazBlue articles in TV Tropes PAINFUL to read (or hell, it extends to other articles). Since Makoto makes an appearance, she pretty much stole every of Litchi's thunders. Fanservice? Makoto got a more Stripperiffic stuff. Kind hearted? Ever since Litchi did her Face–Heel Turn, Makoto has been hailed as 'the only genuinely good person', a position formerly held by Litchi, as in if she did a Face–Heel Turn, she stops being sympathetic and kind. So what thunder from Litchi that Makoto hasn't stolen?

I mean I know Makoto is a nice character and all, but her overhyping gets a bit ridiculous just like Mu and it seems to be at cost of Litchi, being ridiculed for losing her thunder as if a punishment for her Face–Heel Turn... Come on...

To this point, this might also extend to Tsubaki, since her decision to stick with NOL is considered EVIL and thus she gets unnecessary tropes like Evil Redheads.... Let's not run into Protagonist-Centered Morality while writing about BlazBlue here, guys. Those who are not evil at heart and serving NOL, ridiculed because they're in opposition of Ragna, our protagonist (and since Makoto isn't opposed to him, she gets overpraised). This is sickeningly sad.

Anyone gets a free cookie if they can paint Makoto black.
90.156.6.145
Topic
09:51:26 PM Nov 13th 2010
edited by 90.156.6.145
This: "ABSOLUTELY NOBODY ever beats Hazama in CS except in the True Ending. You may have just killed him with an Astral during the match, but afterward your character is tired and trying to catch their breath while Hazama just got a nice warm-up exercise." is not true. All Arcade Mode endings play out like this, but in Story Mode Hazama is beaten up pretty badly by the most powerful characters, even going as far as complaining to Relius Clover why he didn't help him sooner. Of course, he's back to perfect health whenever it's time for another fight thus never beaten for real, but this applies to the True Ending as well, and probably derives from the fact he's a ghost and the P Cs' hate only makes him stronger.
Bakazuki
Topic
05:16:27 PM Aug 4th 2010
Alright...so, a few editors might of noticed; I'm trying to do a little revamping on the BlazBlue page. I'll be placing a few notes on things I might want to do over the next few days, for my own reference. Any other editor with spare time is free to help, though.

  • Divide tropes into two sections: gameplay tropes and story tropes.
  • Rearrange tropes that don't belong, such as character-specific tropes in the main page and vice versa.
  • Maybe create its own shout out page if it gets large enough. Given that its spiritual predecessor also has its own page, its probably unexpected that the need will come up eventually. (and on the same vein, there's not enough C Mo H and C Mo A to warrant their own pages).
AMNK
06:27:38 AM Dec 2nd 2010
What about splitting the main page into three different pages? One for the series in general, (including the non-game installments such as books and the like) another for Calamity Trigger and the third one for Continuum Shift.
Bakazuki
08:15:32 PM Dec 12th 2010
I don't think BlazBlue has enough major installments to warrant that. Once it hits three or four, maybe.
AMNK
01:45:54 PM Dec 23rd 2010
There's Calamity Trigger, Continuum Shift, Phase 0 and The Wheel Of Fortune. Two videogames and two books. I think it's enough, at least for the videogames. I mean, many pages have only two installments and put the general universe tropes in the main page, and each game's tropes in the respective pages.

I think the games, at least, need their own pages.
Lilinka
Topic
08:18:07 AM Jul 31st 2010
edited by Lilinka
The Murakumo Units are listed as being of an unknown bloodtype, but we know Noel is Type A — shouldn't the other Murakumo units be the same?
Hodou
10:13:51 PM Nov 10th 2011
edited by Hodou
Maybe hers is... fabricated? IDK, I kinda figure that the Murakumo units should probably have known blood types anyway, given that they're all Saya, they all have blood, and they've been researched by the NOL... Hell, come to think of it, it actually makes way less sense that anyone knows the blood type of non-NOL characters like Ragna or Taokaka...
SomeNewGuy
Topic
04:11:07 PM Jul 29th 2010
I'm curious, is Tao's joke ending in Calamity Trigger the one where she joins Bang's dojo or the one where she accidentally causes tons of food to rain down on the Kaka village?
SeraphimSwordmaster
05:36:27 PM Apr 16th 2011
The former, I believe.
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