Franchise Ace Attorney Discussion

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Synchronicity
Topic
06:37:36 PM Jun 28th 2017
Pulling:

  • Tangled Family Tree: Initiated in Apollo Justice and it basically doubles in size in Spirit of Justice. Let's talk about Phoenix's family.
    • As a reference, let's start with the fact that Phoenix, Maya, and Pearl are forged into True Companions over the course of the original trilogy.
    • In Apollo Justice, Phoenix has an adopted daughter, Trucy. Trucy comes from the magician clan of Grammarye, and was mothered by a woman named Thalassa Gammarye, who bore a son by another husband, by the name of Apollo. Yes, that Apollo.
    • Spirit of Justice introduces the royal family of Khura'in. Apollo is the adoptive brother of Nahyuta, begotten son of Dhurke and Queen Amara (and therefore Apollo is also an adopted brother of Princess Rayfa), and Queen Amara is a direct descendant of the Holy Mother... as is the ancestral line of Kurain Village, which emigrated from Khura'in, and which, amusingly, means Phoenix is now distantly related to Maya and Pearls through adoption.

This is really stretching it. True Companions =/= blood relations, the Fey clan is so far removed from the current royal family that they might as well not be related, adoption =/= blood relation either.
NNinja
03:19:18 AM Jul 4th 2017
Yep, shoehorn.
Synchronicity
05:24:44 AM Oct 31st 2017
Pulling again:

What's "tangled" here isn't the tree itself (the parent-child relationships are very clear, no time-travel, no cloning, etc.) but rather the amounts of Contrived Coincidence required for everyone to be involved in the story. Still a shoehorn.
NNinja
Topic
09:51:04 AM Jun 2nd 2017
  • The entire original trilogy is centered on Phoenix's and Maya's relationship. Even though things never get explicitly romantic between them, there's a bevy of moments attesting to their mutual devotion.
As you said they never got romantic between them.
  • In case 1-5, Maya's been gone for two months and Phoenix has lost all zest for life, to the point he's turning down cases. He picks up Ema Skye's case because of how she reminds him of Maya.
He felt lonely, true. I don't really see how exacly does it translate into romantic atraction though.
  • Everything Pearl, their Shipper on Deck, right down to the necessary implications of how she even got the idea that Phoenix was "Mystic Maya's Special Someone".
Phoenix esplicitly states that Pearl is wrong about them.
  • Maya's favorite show is "Steel Samurai", which Nick doesn't think all that much of. Nonetheless, he uses the show's theme song for his ring tone. He's still using it as his ringtone as of Spirit of Justice.
Okay so they have simmilar taste in music. How exacly is that supposed to be shipping fodder?
  • Case 2-5 establishes that Phoenix and Maya are so inseparable that when Maya is kidnapped Phoenix actually blacks out, and he's willing to give Shelly de Killer any sum of money he can — and this is poverty-ridden Phoenix we're talking about, here — to get her back. He explicitly declares her to be the most important person in his life later in the same case (in front of Pearl, no less). There's also Maya writing Phoenix encouraging notes and her little doodle of Nick while she'd been kidnapped.
Case doesn't exist, JFA had only four cases.
  • The third game comes the closest to brushing the subject of actual romance. Maya and Phoenix are openly teasing one another, Maya "pretends" to get worked up about Phoenix and Adrian (show her Adrian's picture and she'll insist on looking up the original case),
Whoever wrote this is apparently unaware that Maya is Cloudcuckoolander, and being overly dramatic for no particular reason is entirely in-character for her. By comparison when she sees Phoenix and Iris together, and she actually thinks that that there is something between them she openly ships them.
  • Phoenix's attempt to talk with Maya about Pearl's assumptions obviously hurts Maya's feelings (and she evades the conversation Phoenix wants to have by justifying Pearl's).
It did NOT hurt her feelings, it brought up painfull memories. And Maya's attempts at "justifying Pearl's" is exacly what Phoenix was asking about, so i don't see how is that supposed to be "evading conversation".
  • On Phoenix's end, Maya's brief stint as a waitress shocks him into realizing how cute she and her voice are. Guy actually flirts with her and suggests she quit the spirit medium business.
Ok, to give credit where it's due that's actually legitimate example.
  • The third game introduces the fact that Phoenix did, in fact, have a love life once. ...And then it deliberately draws parallels between his old relationship and his relationship with Maya. On the one hand, Phoenix has only ever physically lashed out at someone twice in his life — the first was when he was a sappy college student and someone insulted his girlfriend; the second was when a witness was talking smack about Maya, which also doubles as a case of Would Hit a Girl, no less. On the other, Phoenix literally crosses a burning bridge in an attempt to save Maya; the last time he was Too Dumb to Live he swallowed a necklace whole because "he was madly in love". There's also the fact that a certain witness openly speculates that Mystic Maya is his girlfriend in court.
The game itself didn't draw any paralels, it was FANS who compared one with another. The witness in question: a) Was biggest, vilest bitch since Milady Winter and probably didn't think a guy can care about a girl he doesn't want to screw and b) Had absolutely no idea how relationship between them actually looks like.
  • Even outside the original trilogy, there's still a few hints that Phoenix and Maya are immensely important to one another. Phoenix somehow amasses quite the collection of Steel Samurai memorabilia in his hospital room in Apollo Justice, for example.
Yes they are immensly important to one another. Everyone knows this. And everyone who isn't Pearl or Dahlia knows that there is nothing romantic between them.
Larkmarn
10:24:40 AM Jun 2nd 2017
It would help a lot if you let us know what trope this is cut from.
NNinja
11:14:47 AM Jun 2nd 2017
Right, my bad. It was from Ship Tease
Larkmarn
11:32:09 AM Jun 2nd 2017
No worries. And yeah, definitely seems like Shipping Goggles-influenced shoehorns.
angelthread1w9
Topic
09:30:14 PM Jun 9th 2014
Okay, I think I noticed a possible contradiction with the major villains for Ace Attorney Investigations 2 when it comes to their sense of morality compared to everyone else. :p

Since there's major spoilers involved though, I'll put in spoiler tags down below. Unless one of you guys know the whole story of AAI 2, I'd suggest you not read this. :( If you'll have, then please read and respond. Arigatou. :3

If Bansai Ichiyanagi is considered more amoral than Manfred and Sota is considered Eviler Than Thou in a spoiler for a trope related to him yet he's somewhat of a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds albeit a despicable one, should either one of them count as a Complete Monster too? Well, okay, I guess the Amoral Attorney thing means amoral and not immoral, but seriously, Bansai is a dick. :p I can actually slightly forgive Sota, but Bansai... I'm not sure how far his evil goes compared to the other villains but I'd say he could count as one. Either way, both of them should definitely have tropes making them on the Least Sympathetic list of the Villain Vileness thing. :p Well, Sota might be Moderately Sympathetic, but even with his backstory I'm not sure if he would be Most Sympathetic because he's a god damn troll. :p Anyways, I just seeing something like Bansai being more amoral than Manfred and Sota being Eviler Than Thou than him would make them even bigger Complete Monsters and they should be listed on that page but I'm not sure if that's quite right or not...
Ces250
02:24:21 PM Aug 22nd 2014
edited by 186.1.75.197
I don't think Souta(Simon) counts as a complete monster,if they have a Freudian Excuse then they can'count...also I think they ARE the most sympathetic Big Bad since all the other ones committed crimes for much more evil reasons (even if both Von Karma and Dahlia wanted revenge their motives were much more irrational) About Bansai(Blaise) I think they certainly qualify,they are such an abusive Jerk Ass towards their son,and they didn't care about the lives they ruined(Ok,neither did Souta,but he still has more of an excuse.)So yeah,I think Bansai qualifies,though I would like to hear what more people thinks before adding them to the "/monster" page.
Ledinax
Topic
01:26:55 PM Jan 15th 2014
edited by 84.121.203.23
Why do we have both a Franchise and a Visual Novel tab for the videogames? I personally find that very confusing. Specially since both tabs seem to describe the same tropes. I'd propose to delete one of them - probably the Visual Novel one-.
SeptimusHeap
12:41:55 AM Jan 16th 2014
I think that someone just used the same example section for both pages. The Franchise/ page should only list franchise-wide examples, methinks.
Ledinax
06:45:31 AM Jan 16th 2014
Perhaps the Franchise page could be only gameplay related examples?
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Franchise.AceAttorney