Film X-Men Discussion

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04:06:47 AM Jul 25th 2011
edited by gerjan
X-Men: First Class - "Casting Gag" I don't recall Fassbender ever stating that he is Jewish or anything else 'interesting', in fact I think he's just Irish-German and raised Catholic to boot. Didn't want to start messing with the page in case am wrong but could someone help me out? What have you heard?
12:14:08 PM Jun 7th 2011
"Ho Yay: Charles and Erik. James Mc Avoy wasn't kidding when he called it a love story. More subtly, Darwin and Havok."

Charles and Erik, I buy- pretty much Word of God (or at least, of actor). But Darwin and Havok. They have all of three scenes together. In one (the "code-names" scene) they have no more interaction than any of the other students. Then they're seen playing pinball, Darwin complaining that Havok's kicking his ass at it, Havok saying it's because he has a lot of free time. Then the attack sequence, where the only significant interaction is where Darwin turns to Havok, and sets up the plan.(I won't say what plan, for those who haven't seen it yet- stop reading this page and see the movie!)

Male friendship is NOT Ho Yay.

I would like to delete this, but I'll give it a couple of days to see if anyone can make a real case for it.
07:22:54 AM Jun 11th 2011
Not the troper who added that to Ho Yay, but I genuinely thought Darwin and Havok were meant to be a couple (from the somewhat random bit when they're playing pinball and Havok puts his hand on Darwin's stomach, and the angsty look between them when Darwin dies). I've seen a lot of people mention it online, too.
10:44:47 AM Jun 12th 2011
I really think this is people seeing what they want to see. The "angsty look"? Well, first of all, Darwin's looking back at the whole "first class", not just Havok, and they all have pretty "angsty" looks. Plus, it's Havok's energy that killed Darwin- of course he feels particularly bad.

I'll admit I din't notice the stomach touch, although as I remember the scene, Havok's playing the game- I'm pretty certain any "touch" was a quick pat of some sort- you don't take your hands away from the flipper buttons if you're a good player.

I really think this is something that people are seeing because they want to see it- not because it's there.
04:14:07 PM Jun 12th 2011
edited by doyle
I got the pinball thing the wrong way round, it's Darwin touching Havok. Sounds like you blinked and missed it, but that's where people are getting the Ho Yay from (and why I had to look up when I got home whether they were a couple in the comics). Here's a thread talking about it on Gamefaqs

If it was only people seeing what they wanted to, there'd be a plethora of other couples (besides Xavier/Magneto) listed under Ho Yay (it's not like this is a movie short on a whole variety of attractive men interacting with each other...)

None of which is to say that the writers intended there to be Ho Yay, or that you/anyone else has to agree it was there - but a lot of people did see it, and for that reason I don't think it should be removed.
12:10:45 AM Nov 23rd 2011
edited by delspencerdeltorro
I think the touch alone would qualify as Ho Yay between Havok and Darwin. During Darwin's death scene, the way they look at each other, and the way Darwin reaches out for Havok like he wants to say something seems like they were more than friends.
10:56:34 AM Nov 23rd 2011
Doesnt Ho Yay belong on YMMV anyways?
07:14:09 PM Feb 10th 2011
Some timeline issues, which I know are due to lack of involvement later on from Bryan Singer, but which I just wanted to clarify.

Also, I haven't seen Wolverine Origins so I don't know whether there is any definitive time period in which it is supposed to be set.

The X-Men films are set in the "near future". Let's assume that that just means a couple of years into the future to make this less difficult.

Stryker makes a crack to fake!Senator Kelly early on in X2 to the effect of "I was in Vietnam when you were sucking on your mama's tit at Woodstock". Disregarding the fact that the two men don't actually look far apart enough in age for that to be accurate, that still puts Stryker in at least his early-mid sixties. That makes Wolverine Origins almost twenty years prior. However, we also see a younger Scott Summers in Origins, a Scott clearly in his late teens. But Scott as played by James Marsden in X2 is surely not in his mid-late thirties.

My point: what is the trope for this?
08:21:05 AM Feb 11th 2011
I believe Wolverine was supposed to take place 15 years prior to the first X-Men film, which was made in 2001, and was probably supposed to take place within a year or so of that.

As for Scott's age, I think we're just meant to assume the character was older than the actor in the first movies.
06:47:57 PM Oct 28th 2010
edited by DarkNemesis
Can someone link the Headscratchers entry for the film series to this page? It's located at but right now, the JBM link is going to the entry in the comics page.
08:42:01 AM Oct 28th 2010
edited by
Yeah, this bit...
  • Wall Banger: Storm's preaching to Rogue on how seeking a cure would be denying herself and turning her back on mutantkind, etc.
    • Humans who are not allowed to touch other humans go insane, by the way. It's not like this isn't affecting Rogue mentally. When you have a condition that is causing you to spiral toward depression and insanity, you go get it fixed if you can.
      • More to the point, Storm was essentially demanding that Rogue not make her own choices in order to remain herself. That's slightly contradictory....
      • Hank lampshades the hypocrisy by pointing out that Storm still looks like a normal human being. She's not covered in blue fur, or unable to touch the person she loves.

I'm not seeing as how this is a wallbanger. At all. As a minority the idea of a cure for mutants, and Storm's hostility to it, struck a very real cord (and evidenced IRL in things as dramatic as curing homosexuality and mundane as hair relaxing). While there are some valid points made in all the natter, wallbanger is not at all appropriate for Storm's feelings, which I (and many share). The very idea of a cure for mutancy implies that there's something wrong with mutants. And for someone to take said cure feels alot like they're endorsing the bigots and turning their backs on you.

Irrational? Perhaps. Insane Troll Logic? Not even close.
08:58:33 AM Oct 28th 2010
edited by MrDeath
The reason it was listed as a wallbanger isn't because of Storm's justifiable feelings, but because she immediately shouted down Rogue, whose power is dangerous, uncontrollable, and leaves her unable to experience the most basic of human interactions.

The problem is that, unlike the real-life issues it's meant to be a metaphor for, all mutants are not created equal; by contrast, homosexuals, for example, more or less share the same difference from what's considered "normal"; i.e. they want to schtupp a different set of people from what society says they should; and the difference is benign and not innately dangerous. The same can't be said for Mutants, whose powers range from healing, immortality, enhanced senses, cool claws and the ability to be dozens of places at the same time to sucking the life out of any living thing you touch without being able to stop yourself.

In Storm's case, yes, it's analogous to things like curing homosexuality, in that it implies that there's something innately wrong with it, because her powers—and control over them—are a bonus; she still looks normal, feels normal, and can be normal if she wants.

Rogue's situation is considerably different—her powers are a curse; she can't touch anyone without seriously harming or killing them, and thus she's denied the most basic form of human contact, and cannot have a normal life because of it. For Rogue, it's like someone paralyzed from the waist down being yelled at for having the gall to look into getting a wheelchair.

This is exactly what Beast's line is about. An alternate interpretation could see Storm basically acting like some groups of African Americans that accuse others of their ethnicity of "selling out" or "acting White" because they try to be successful in business and education. She is basically telling Rogue that she'd be betraying her people by making a choice that could significantly improve her quality of life, and that it's more important that she remain a mutant than be happy.
05:16:26 PM Oct 30th 2010
That makes sense, but I still wouldn't call it a wallbanger. As you and others describe it, it's honour before reason.

The honour of remaining true to the group, trumps the reason of Rogue having a normal quality of life.
09:44:26 AM Nov 1st 2010
Neither would I. I was just pointing out why others would.

To me, what saves it from being a Wall Banger is Beast's line, where he points out Storm's skewed perspective, and the fact that Rogue does take the cure without showing some arbitrary negative consequences to imply Storm was right. A Wall Banger would have been the movie agreeing with Storm, rather than Storm just saying it.
10:26:14 AM Nov 1st 2010
Out of curiosity, why'd you remove the whole bit? Why not just delete the part that says "Wall Banger".

IMHO, it would be a Dethroning Moment of Suck for the movie, whereas a Wall Banger is when the entire plot or a piece of dialogue that the plot hinges on is bad, whereas this was just a conversation that left a bad taste in people's mouths for the aformentioned reasons.

This is exactly what Beast's line is about. An alternate interpretation could see Storm basically acting like some groups of African Americans that accuse others of their ethnicity of "selling out" or "acting White" because they try to be successful in business and education.

I saw it as more of an analogy to Deaf people who ostracize deaf people who get cochlear implants. People hide their race/ethnicity because of its perceived hindrance in the professional/social world; the mutant analog would be a normal-looking mutant like Storm not using her powers and letting people think she's a human. With the cure, Rogue was actually changing herself into a human, which is a more fundamental change and would be a lot more controversial than just passing, even if it's her personal choice and made perfect sense in the long run.
08:54:20 AM Nov 2nd 2010
Well, in either case, neither Wall Banger nor Dethroning Moment of Suck are supposed to be listed on main pages anymore.
08:02:33 PM Nov 5th 2010
For some reason I though that was cut from the Headscratchers page, not the main page.
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