Film The Empire Strikes Back Discussion

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07:29:33 PM Jun 23rd 2013
The David Vs Goliath entry.

The spoiler text confuses me. How, exactly, did Luke not lose against Vader? Vader mopped the floor with him in actual combat and crushed him psychologically.

I didn't want to just change it, just in case there were actual reasons for it.
09:43:47 AM May 21st 2011
  • Idiot Ball: Yeah, Ben, why didn't you tell him? Having Vader tell Luke makes bringing the kid over to the Dark Side several times more likely. Then again, Ben only was only in contact with him for a few days, before coming down with a serious case of getting cut down with a lightsabre and Ben didn't seem to really get the hang of being a Force Ghost for some time. A better question is why didn't Yoda tell him?

Putting this one up for discussion too. Obi-Wan and Yoda had good reasons for not revealing Luke's parentage. For one, they didn't feel he could handle the knowledge. For another, they didn't expect him to confront Vader and were surprised when he ran off on Dagobah. For a third, and perhaps more cynically, they wanted him to be able to kill Vader without going through moral hoops. That is probably the biggest blunder they made, because it forced Luke to doubt their motives, if briefly. It's also not very Jedi-like to conceal the truth, which is of course where we get the From a Certain Point of View trope.

In summary, it's not an Idiot Ball ("who do we need to make stupid so this episode's plot can happen") and more a case of a very questionable set of moral priorities on Yoda and Obi-Wan's part.
12:40:27 PM Dec 16th 2010
edited by Fighteer
  • Timey-Wimey Ball: How long are Leia, Han and the others on the run from Vader? Not very long, given what happens on screen. A day, or a few days, or a week if all the Cloud City events are thrown in. So how long is Luke in training with Yoda? Does time pass differently on Dagobah, or is a week all it takes to train a Jedi?

I don't want to discuss this in the main article so I moved it here. It took an unspecified amount of time for the Falcon to travel to Bespin on sublight drive, more than long enough for Luke to have undergone any conceivable amount of training. The real question is why it didn't take the Falcon years to get there, unless Bespin's in the same star system as Hoth.
01:06:53 PM Dec 16th 2010
Besides, Timey-Wimey Ball is about time travel. If anything, it'd fall under Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale.
04:33:55 PM Dec 12th 2010
Are we sure Lando started hating Han because the latter chose the Falcon instead of another starship?

If I remember right, Han invited Lando over on a con, and Han's gf stole the money and invited Han to go join the Rebellion.
12:45:40 PM Dec 16th 2010
Anything discussing Han and Lando's relationship that doesn't appear in the films is of questionable canonicity. We do know that Han won the Falcon from Lando in a Sabacc match, and that Lando resented it. Other than that, it's more of a Noodle Incident between them.
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