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MarqFJA
topic
07:19:41 PM Jan 18th 2014
A couple of links to the previous discussion pages, back when the article was made during the Ptitle system days: [1] [2]

Figured someone might want to check up old discussions.
Telcontar
moderator
01:09:27 AM Jan 19th 2014
I've merged them into here.
Amalia
topic
09:56:20 AM Feb 9th 2013
Excuse me, but how many episodes of Haruhi Suzumiya need a new reader need to watch before starting to read this fanfiction? Also, Higurashi, apparently?
Cestus
03:59:03 AM Jan 18th 2014
Bad News. According to the forum where he normally posts new material, Brian Randall, who is the author of Kyon: Big Damn Hero, died yesterday, 1/17/2014 after committing suicide due to depression.
MarqFJA
07:17:17 PM Jan 18th 2014
edited by 2.89.125.180
Thanks for the heads-up, even if I had already known via the forum thread. RIP, Brian.

PS: You should've gone to the bottom of the page and clicked the Add New Topic button.
Xavon
topic
06:44:28 PM Nov 17th 2012
Is the author getting ready to end this? The name of the new arc, the name of the new chapter, and the events there-in seem to imply it.
AbyssmalKismet
topic
01:07:33 PM Mar 28th 2012
edited by AbyssmalKismet
Not really sure if this belongs here or somewhere else, but am I the only one having problems getting onto the author's site? Is it a problem with the site, or is it just me?

Edit: I figured out the problem. He changed the site name, so the URL I was trying to use was incorrect.
SgtHydra
topic
10:41:37 AM Dec 24th 2011
Can we get a character page?

Seems like this fic has gotten long enough (and popular enough) to need one.
Eamil
topic
09:12:48 PM Dec 20th 2011
Since the fanfiction.net version is more or less defunct, does anyone else think it would be appropriate to edit the chapter title format to match the format used on the author's personal site? (i.e. "Chapter 30," not "Thwarted Lull chapter 2" or "Thwarted Lull Arc 2") Referring to overall chapter number seems like it would be less confusing.
OneMore
topic
02:33:39 AM Aug 25th 2011
Somewhy, I cannot find any reviews for the fic in the "reviews" link. There are none, or is it a bug?
Filraen
11:44:06 AM Aug 25th 2011
edited by Filraen
There are none. If you want something that approaches it you can see these posts in the K:BDH forum thread. Beware of spoilers though.
Filraen
topic
01:21:19 PM Aug 24th 2011
edited by Filraen
Pulled these as I don't think they are right:

  • An Aesop: During the 'Heroic Antics Begin' arc, the possibility that Kyon's example will lead to a society where everyone depends on their own strength after he goes on a violent rampage through the school helping Tsuruya break up an illicit photography ring that was taking pictures of girls changing in the locker room Kyons parents bring up the dangers of these actions as well. The Aesop seems to be that unless your in an incredibly unique set of circumstances, you should probably leave the investigative work to the authorities.

  • Author Tract: A debatable example; several times during the "Heroic Antics Begin" arc, when Kyon's 'delinquent' behavior is under review by either his parents or the student council they have a topic shift to the wider societal consequences of Kyon's Vigilantism particularly the Rule of Law. While an interesting and somewhat philosophical question to be sure, it all came out of left field and seemed to be shoehorned in just to muse on the idea and remind the reader that they should probably not try this in real life

And how the parents taking care of their children is shoehorning that idea? They don't have the perspective of us readers. (in general this is applicable to both previous tropes)

  • Dead Fic: At least as far a fanfiction.net is concerned, Durandal has decided to retire from the site with the following on his recent release
    "Apologies for the distruption; if you wish to continue following this (or any other) of my stories, I will be continuing them on my personal website.
    Not quitting ... just leaving.
    Best regards to all."
    • The link to the fanfic has been changed at the top of the page to K:BDH's section on the authors website as a result.

As long as there are still updates on Durandall's site this isn't a Dead Fic.

  • Department of Redundancy Department: Although it may have actually been an accident on the author's part, chapter 47 features a line from Tsuruya's perspective as such:
    ... hadn't Haruhi labeled her the director of ninkyou dantai operations within the brigade, hadn't she?

I don't see the redundancy of words there.

Discussion open.
GreatLimmick
topic
12:38:14 AM Jun 6th 2011
Pulled this:

  • Cardboard Prison: The SOS Brigade needs to store Achakura somewhere. Kyon considered placing her in a shoebox and weighing it down, but that wouldn't stop someone like her. In the end, Yuki gave him a modified cardboard box to store Achakura.

Although the prison is literally composed principally of cardboard, it's actually secure so far and thus not an example of the trope.
Filraen
07:01:02 AM Jun 6th 2011
Pulled this trope too, for the same reason (taking the trope name literally, not being really an example of the trope)

  • The Chessmaster: A literal example with Kyon, bonus points because he's probably unaware of this. Case in point: In Storm Begins Chapter 4, Kyon played chess against his PDA waiting for the right moment to snipe Asakura and complete the prologue's Stable Time Loop, unknown to him Achakura took control of the opposite side of the board and after three hours of playing her best result was a single stalemate. Quite an achievement, considering he was playing against an IDSE interface.
R.G.
topic
09:10:29 AM May 6th 2011
How long before we get to KYONKO: BIG DAMN HEROINE?
Straylight
02:11:42 AM May 10th 2011
I'm sensing Achakura as responsible for this. That or Kuyou is going to commit a rounding error somewhere in her antics.
Straylight
topic
09:46:54 AM Mar 24th 2011
What's with the Rumiko Takahashi reference on the Shout Outs page? How is this a shout out? Takahashi isn't an uncommon surname.
Filraen
04:29:02 PM Mar 24th 2011
I'll add the "noise" from The World Ends with You. In the section the term was introduced they were talking about other "musical" terms (chorus, song, etc.)
NineballBreaker
topic
09:13:37 PM Feb 13th 2011
Kyon's (future) children can time travel. Behold these pictures from the end of Dissapearance! Yuki even has the decency to look embarrassed about something.
Augustine
topic
05:30:03 PM Nov 5th 2010
Who is the artist that did the page image?
UncloudedTJ
06:22:45 PM Nov 5th 2010
It was posted on the forum thread here by Eserchie. Not sure if they drew them or just collected them though.
Eserchie
10:28:42 PM Nov 7th 2010
I drew them
Filraen
topic
05:39:02 AM Oct 29th 2010
No Sell: Why Koiumi using ESP outside closed space an instance of this trope? It has been explicitly said Koizumi's powers have changed. In that case it isn't that his ESP ignoring the limitation, but removing the limiter from his power.
MarqFJA
07:59:06 AM Oct 29th 2010
It's not Koizumi himself doing the No Sell, it's Haruhi using her Reality Warper powers to No Sell the "natural law" that prevents Espers from using their powers outside Closed Space. No Sell is an integral aspect of canon!Haruhi's powers, BTW; see the character sheet.
Filraen
11:17:26 AM Oct 29th 2010
I understand you are talking about Haruhi supposedly using No Sell.

But there isn't a natural law to prevent using ESP outside closed space. For example, the ESP used to see and connect with the IDSE works outside closed space (if you get crazy for using it isn't falut of the power itself).

Specifically on Koizumi, outside closed space he still has his other powers: awareness of Haruhi's mood (originally), knowledge when and where closed space has been created, enter closed space himself and grant access to others. Koizumi's "red ball" ESP was designed to fight Celestials so it works only on closed space, where Celestials appear.
MarqFJA
05:50:34 AM Oct 30th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
So we agree on "red Energy Being mode is limited to Closed Space" was a natural law of Haruhi's universe before she No Selled it as part of her Memory Gambit?
Filraen
12:21:41 PM Oct 30th 2010
That's the point, I disagree on "red Energy Being mode is limited to Closed Space" was ever a natural law instead of Haruhi's restriction on the power so they can be used only to fight Celestials.

No law, thus can't be No Selled.
MarqFJA
04:43:06 AM Oct 31st 2010
edited by MarqFJA
The way I see it, a restriction placed by a Reality Warper on how a class of superpowered beings use their superpowers (which they recieved from her) within a universe that either is under her power's complete control or has been created from scratch 3-4 years ago in The Incident essentially equates to her imposing a natural law of her own within that universe to that effect.
Filraen
12:00:24 PM Nov 10th 2010
edited by Filraen
World under her complete control? Haruhi has been powerless to it isn't correct.

World created a few years ago? Yuki confirmed the world existed before The Incident.

Finally, if Haruhi actually changed a "natural law" (whatever it is, needs definition) all of Haruhi-empowered Energy Beings espers would be able to use their ESP outside Closed Space, not only Koizumi.

As such, I stand by theory of removal of a Power Limiter instead of a No Sell.
MarqFJA
02:15:08 PM Nov 10th 2010
By "world created a few years ago", I meant "she used to live in Universe A, then her baseball match-induced Revelation happened, and she subconsciously either recreated Universe A to have 'aliens, espers, time-travellers, and sliders', or created a new Universe B that allows the aforementioned and transported the Earth's human population to it".

And given your reminder that Koizumi is the only one who can use Energy Being mode outside Closed Space, the situation becomes "Haruhi No Selled the 'natural law' that imposes a Power Limiter on Espers from applying to Koizumi".

PS: "Natural law" is the most accurate term that I can think of to describe the nature of the restriction on Esper powers in the Haruhi Suzumiya universe. It's analogous to the laws of physics, which govern all forms of "physical" entites (i.e. anything that possesses mass and/or energy).
Filraen
04:01:13 PM Nov 10th 2010
There's one point that doesn't go with your idea. If Haruhi really changed reality so Koizumi could use his powers then it's the universe who changes and not Koizumi. In that case Koizumi's ESP shouldn't have been changed, as the altered reality should accommodate to him using his powers. However, Yuki said his powers were modified.

(This thread really looks like the Organization vs. Time Travelers opinion on Haruhi's powers, right?)
MarqFJA
02:59:14 PM Nov 11th 2010
Yeah, maybe. But notice how the light novels say (paraphrasing Haruhi's No Sell entry on the canon series character sheet) that if you want to surpass the speed of light, just put Haruhi in your spaceship and she'll ignore the laws of physics that prevent physical objects from reaching light speed. She doesn't have to change the laws; she'll just stop them from applying to whatever that she wants; and of course, that includes changing whatever she wants so that whatever law that she doesn't like to apply to them won't apply to them ever again.
Filraen
05:46:24 PM Nov 11th 2010
I know Haruhi can No Sell when she has her power unrestrained.

I call Occam's Razor. Either change the whole universe so one specific character can use his abilities outside closed space (No Sell) or change the powers this one single character have, unlocking them for use outside close space (removal of Power Limiter). Which explanation is simpler?
MarqFJA
05:25:22 AM Nov 12th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
For a virtually unlimited Reality Warper who has been proven to be capable of destroying the universe without meaning to? Both would take the same amount of effort.

And I believe the light novel reference that I mentioned was talking in context of Haruhi while oblivious to The Masquerade, i.e. not actively aware or in control of her powers.
Filraen
06:47:05 PM Nov 15th 2010
My question remains unanswered. I called Occam's Razor. Either change the whole universe so one specific character can use his abilities outside closed space (No Sell) or change the powers this one single character have, unlocking them for use outside close space (removal of Power Limiter). Which explanation is simpler? (not easier, simpler)

By the way, I'd like to know if there's a counter-argument on my theory and your answer on Koizumi's change of powers as I mentioned earlier.  copy/paste from earlier post
MarqFJA
10:55:48 AM Nov 16th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
  1. The latter would be theoretically simpler (although in practice, both are equal in compelixity/simplicity to a Reality Warper of Haruhi's caliber...), and in hindsight, it would be more of an indirect No Sell - as in, she changed Koizumi's powers to become immune to the Power Limiter rule.

  2. See second part of the above.

PS: Here's the full quote from the character sheet.
... If you want to achieve faster-than-light travel, let Haruhi on your spaceship. She'll just simply ignore the theory of relativity for you.
When I mentioned this to Nagato, the reticent pseudo-alien responded with the following.
"Your belief is most likely correct."
GreatLimmick
09:19:30 PM Jun 10th 2011
edited by GreatLimmick
Do we know the other espers can't use their powers outside closed space? I don't remember reading anything that says one way or the other.

Either way, I don't think it would fall under No Sell. It's not like anyone's being attacked by the laws of physics. A better example would be right after Koizumi activates his powers and he ignores a laser the robot fires harmlessly straight through him.

(EDIT) Or when he ignores the Sumiyoshi-Rengo thugs firing their pistols through him, or when he's more inconvenienced than anything else by Fujiwara's fireball gun.
118.93.180.213
topic
03:13:56 PM Oct 28th 2010
New chapter up!
MarqFJA
04:55:39 AM Oct 29th 2010
Not to be rude, but that's old news, and the main article has already been updated accordingly.

Besides, such an announcement belongs in the forum thread, not here.
ChainsawEnthusiast
topic
10:29:39 AM Oct 19th 2010
I really think that this fanfic needs a Headscratchers page. Could someone add that? I dont know how to.
Unclouded_TJ
10:40:53 AM Oct 19th 2010
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustBugsMe/ptitle0028gzjm

Copy and paste that link then click edit and bam you have a Just Bugs Me page. I don't have any bugs so I won't create it, but give me a heads up so I can index it properly.
RainyDaze
topic
09:50:42 AM Sep 14th 2010
I really think the description needs to be rewritten from its current state of my original + whatever seemed like a good idea to be added at the time. Admittedly, two parts of that are probably my fault.

Anyway...

I know I posted it on the thread but I'm not sure where something like this is meant to go, so it's here as well.
MarqFJA
topic
02:52:58 PM Sep 13th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Okay, that's two chapters since the last time we talked about making a dedicated forum thread for this fic. (See the old discussion page.)

Now, before any of us go to create the thread, we have two issues to resolve beforehand:
  1. Where to put it: It's an anime-manga fanfic, yes, but it's still a fanfic. Do we have a precedent for threads on specific Fanfics?
  2. Spoiler statute: The tradition was first codified by wanderlustwarrior in the One Piece thread, and eventually spread to the Bleach, Naruto and Mahou Sensei Negima! ones. Now, here's my version of it for use in the K:BDH thread...
  • Whenever there's a new chapter on a trusted site (FanFiction.Net, Durandall's FF.Net account, or his own site), first poster who sees it posts it immediately.
  • NEVER post statements about the chapter in the post that you link to it in.
  • Spoiler tag for the first five posts after the link to the chapter (so that we don't see the spoilers before seeing the link itself). If the page rolls over into a new one before the five-post limit is exceeded, reset the count.
  • No need to spoiler tag after 5 posts.

How's it looking?
Unclouded_TJ
06:19:17 PM Sep 13th 2010
Probably best to put it in the New Media section. As that's where the Harry Potter fanfic threads tend to pop up. Also standing spoiler statute sounds good and should be generous assuming it gets to be a big thread.
MarqFJA
10:11:14 PM Sep 13th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
But the only fics covered by New Media in TV Tropes' terminology are online collaborative ones, like Orion's Arm.

Maybe we should ask Fast Eddie about it.

EDIT: Okay, I put the question on New Media's discussion page. In the meantime, I'll just create the thread on the New Media sub-forum, since I now notice that even Team 8 has a thread there.

EDIT#2: Thread up!
Dorkus
topic
11:15:28 PM Sep 3rd 2010
Chekov Beam, it's gotta have some sort of trope, right?
Unclouded_TJ
11:37:58 PM Sep 3rd 2010
Probably a reference to Chekhov's Skill but other than that it's too vague to really place.
MarqFJA
08:21:15 AM Sep 4th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
No, I believe it's a reference to the Chekov's Gun, which is a Ray Gun.
Unclouded_TJ
09:35:01 AM Sep 4th 2010
Possibly but then it depends on how the beam is fired. Dragon Ball style or from a gun. Either way it's a reference to that series of tropes.
MarqFJA
11:56:43 AM Sep 4th 2010
Wait, was the in-story spelling "Chekov" or "Chekhov"?
Dorkus
12:46:24 PM Sep 4th 2010
Guess I should of been more specific. It can be construed as a reference to the Mikuru Beam right (since it's Trope-tan's attack)? So having it in here is sorta like a meta shout out or something?

Or I could be completely off my rocker, but that's normal :P
Unclouded_TJ
12:56:37 PM Sep 4th 2010
It's Chekhov Beam. Chapter 15. I'm going to assume it's a reference to Chekhov's Skill or Chekhov's Gun as despite the missing h in Chekov's Gun the two are opposite in meaning.

Also Show Within a Show or Plot Parallel are about the closest I can think of to referencing the Mikuru Beam. However it's probably just a Shout-Out.
MarqFJA
08:37:52 PM Sep 4th 2010
I say it's the Show Within a Show doing a Continuity Nod to a canon part of the fic's background story.
Filraen
topic
12:23:11 AM Sep 3rd 2010
Oblivious to Love: Maybe it needs some rewrite (I can't think well how to put it into words). While he may be oblivious of his delinquent/domestic mode effect on other girls (first section of the entry) the whole "special hell" Running Gag is based on him acknowledging some sort of attraction from the girls (if the kisses weren't so blatant)
MarqFJA
03:39:27 AM Sep 3rd 2010
Well, I'd like to note that he seems to be really Oblivious to Love unless it is slammed directly into his face; when did he realize that Kanae had a crush on him again? I think it's in Thwarted Lull Arc 2, when the two went to that remote area of the beach, but I could be wrong.
Filraen
04:06:47 AM Sep 3rd 2010
Point taken for Kanae.

Still, he still feared a possible confession from Miyoko in Filler arc 3 (Please, he asked any god listening to his prayers, don't let it be a confession!).
dragonKhorse
04:35:22 AM Sep 4th 2010
He's completely oblivious to girls staring at him and stuff, but he's perfectly fine with knowing that he enjoys girls throwing themselves at him. I'd put it as a Zig Zagged Trope. As for Kanae, she did mention somewhere in the later chapters that her favorite universe was the one where she dated Kyon.
MarqFJA
topic
03:56:56 PM Aug 25th 2010
Can someone handle converting at least part of the Main/KyonBigDamnHero potholes? Here's the current list. I'm currently trying to add some trope entries that while are listed on fic's main article, are not on the relevant trope pages.
Unclouded_TJ
11:16:18 PM Aug 25th 2010
Do we want to change them all into "Fanfic/Ptitle0028gzjm"? I'll do it no problem I just want to make sure we're supposed to first.
MarqFJA
06:57:36 AM Aug 26th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Yeah, that would be preferable. And then there's also the bigger problem of the "punctuated references" (see the format in the markup help; it refuses to show up correctly here), since they do not show up on the "related to..." list at all. Not even as a redirect. I fixed a few of them, but the counters didn't change, meaning they're not considered wicks for the page.
Unclouded_TJ
10:38:23 AM Aug 26th 2010
edited by Unclouded_TJ
Ok, They're all down. Thanks for starting from the bottom.
MarqFJA
03:36:54 AM Sep 3rd 2010
You're welcome.
RainyDaze
topic
11:24:18 AM Aug 25th 2010
Neighbourhood Friendly Gangsters... not listed, unless it's been added since I last checked, but I'm curious as to whether anyone thinks it applies. Whilst we haven't seen what the yakuza in this do, there might be some hints that I've missed. However, I'm not sure.

And to take the trope name literally, Tsuruya probably counts as very friendly.
MarqFJA
03:34:24 PM Aug 25th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
From the Real Life section of Neighbourhood Friendly Gangsters' own article:

As stated, real life gangs, Mafia, Yakuza and Cartels try to keep up public relations at home ground.

The Tsuruya-affiliated yakuza definitely count, especially Daddy Tsuruya and his Yakuza Princess Ojou daughter Haruka.
Filraen
07:08:40 AM Aug 26th 2010
From what I've seen, it's the Tsuruya family who has been shown public relations. And it isn't even not so public if you consider the whole relationship of Tsuruya's father with Kyon's parents (only one isolated family): he deliberately doesn't mention the family yakuza.

Can you give an specific example about the Tsuruya family Yakuza trying to keep up good public relations at their home ground?
192.60.115.67
05:43:47 AM Sep 7th 2010
Kyon mentions that the Yamaguchi-gumi are the ones responsible for most of the relief and aid efforts after the Kobe earthquake, shortly after Tsuruya tells him that her family are ninkyo dantai.
MarqFJA
10:34:02 AM Sep 7th 2010
And then there's the matter of Tsuruya's investigation into the illegal voyeurist pornography ring as part of her yakuza "initiation ceremony".
GreatLimmick
02:33:32 AM Feb 25th 2011
That investigation was officially self-serving, since it involved a rival organization selling naked pictures of the heir of the Tsuruya branch. Yes, it helped a lot of other girls too, but that was technically just a side benefit.
MarqFJA
topic
11:25:37 AM Aug 23rd 2010
Um, can someone please cancel the Cut-List request? I'm afraid I'm the one who got confused a little. I was under the impression that namespaces were case-sensitive. I'll be putting a redirect right now.
MarqFJA
07:19:47 PM Jan 18th 2014
A couple of links to the previous discussion pages, back when the article was made during the Ptitle system days: [1] [2]

Figured someone might want to check up old discussions.
MarqFJA
topic
10:34:10 AM Aug 23rd 2010
Should we cutlist Main/Ptitle0028gzjm? Or is there another way to remove that "Main" button at the top of the page?
RainyDaze
10:37:37 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by RainyDaze
There's going to be more than a dozen redlinks if it's cut, and that's at the least.

The button sends you straight back to the new link anyway, it's not doing any harm.
MarqFJA
11:20:51 AM Aug 23rd 2010
Fixed about one-third of those links (they were 31 in all). Gonna go about the others later; you may take care of some of them if you like.
RainyDaze
11:49:41 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by RainyDaze
I would if I knew what the links were. Going through the trope list looking for something was bad enough when there were only 100 links and I was just adding examples to both pages. Searching for a link to a particular page? Not good...

Unless I'm missing a feature somewhere.

Why are removing them again?
Unclouded_TJ
12:31:51 PM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by Unclouded_TJ
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/relatedsearch.php?term=Main/KyonBigDamnHero

That's the list of the links that take it to the old location. I'm going to try fixing some of them now but for future reference.

Edit: Got it down to 90 taking a break for a while.
RainyDaze
12:58:45 PM Aug 23rd 2010
Those links don't, the redirect for that page has been pointed to here. I think it's best to leave them as they are, since it's the quickest way to create a link.

The main page, though...
Unclouded_TJ
01:02:29 PM Aug 23rd 2010
Er. Oops. Perhaps the related links is the one we're looking for?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/relatedsearch.php?term=Fanfic/Ptitle0028gzjm
RainyDaze
01:18:34 PM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by RainyDaze
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/relatedsearch.php?term=Main/ptitle0028gzjm

That one, which is the original and is only going to be linked to if you're deliberately trying. It also provides the redundant Main button.
MarqFJA
02:41:24 PM Aug 23rd 2010
Good work, guys. Mission accomplished. Uh, and I have to apologize for accidentally requesting the page to be cut-listed before I realized that namespaces aren't really case-sensitive beyond the first letter. ^^; I already made a request to cancel the cut-list.
RainyDaze
03:43:50 PM Aug 23rd 2010
What's case sensitive got to do with it? I'm confused.
MarqFJA
05:35:46 PM Aug 23rd 2010
I thought that the system considered "FanFic/" to be different from "Fanfic/", and since I saw the former first in the URL bar when I first visited the relocated page...
RainyDaze
04:24:59 AM Aug 24th 2010
edited by RainyDaze
What has the Fanfic/ namespace got to do with deleting the Main/ article?

As for capitalisation, as far as URLs are concerned it's irrelevant (I think).
MarqFJA
07:20:33 AM Aug 24th 2010
Uh, that's because when I originally went to the Main/ article, I found that you've mistyped the redirect link and... somehow (I don't quite remember now) I was redirected to Fanfic/KyonBigDamnHero. I assumed that last one was a byproduct of that mistake during the original article's creation, and then cut-listed it... before I realized via my watchlist that Fanfic/ and FanFic/ are treated exactly the same by the site's system.

Yeah, pretty convoluted, ain't it?
RainyDaze
01:59:31 PM Aug 24th 2010
Wait, you were cutlisting a completely different page? Fanfic/KyonBigDamnHero?

I give up on trying to understand that paragraph and advocate just leaving the pages as they are.
MarqFJA
02:42:49 PM Aug 24th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
As I said, it's pretty convoluted, and even I don't remember how it happened now. >_<
Unclouded_TJ
03:20:15 PM Aug 24th 2010
Final answer: Leave it as it is unless a moderator comes by and yells at us.
MarqFJA
03:22:07 PM Aug 24th 2010
Too late. They've already cut listed it. I've put the redirect back with an apology for the blunder. Let's hope that the mods/admin would let it slide by this once.

Damn, I feel stuuupiiiid. XD
RainyDaze
topic
10:15:49 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by RainyDaze
Changed the namespace, as suggested in a topic in the previous discussion.

The entire point of stating this is so that this discussion page has a button on the series' page.

Also: the main page is a redirect here, so is the previous redirect, and so is Fanfic/KyonBigDamnHero

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Main.Ptitle0028gzjm <- the URL for the previous discussion page.
MarqFJA
topic
04:03:30 PM Aug 22nd 2010
edited by MarqFJA
I can't believe I didn't notice this before... Shouldn't the main article be in the "FanFic/" namespace, as with all other Fan Fics?
Unclouded_TJ
05:07:54 PM Aug 22nd 2010
It's actually optional if you want do it that way. Some of the other fanfics that have pages aren't listed that way. It might be correct but not entirely necessary.
MarqFJA
08:08:13 PM Aug 22nd 2010
edited by MarqFJA
So I can do it without reprecussions? I've done a few namespace switches before without trouble (and left redirects behind just in case), so this should a piece of cake.
Unclouded_TJ
10:36:46 PM Aug 22nd 2010
If you want to sure go ahead. I'm just saying it's not really necessary as it's mostly a superficial thing.
RainyDaze
04:41:42 AM Aug 23rd 2010
I can't really see the point in switching the namespace. It might declare it to be a fanfic, but what's the need in that? It's in the fanfic index, listed with fanfics in the trope pages... is it really going to do anything other than have even more redirects?
MarqFJA
06:46:12 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by MarqFJA
You're acting like it has five redirects instead of just one.

In any case, the Fan Fic namespace is there for a reason, and it looks... discordant... to deviate from the rule just because it's highly unlikely that an official work will come up that uses the very same name. You don't see Shinji And Warhammer 40 K in the Main/ namespace, do you?
RainyDaze
09:08:14 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by RainyDaze
The entire reason it's in the Main/ namespace is because I made a mistake somewhere when creating the page...

Putting it in the correct namespace does make sense, though. I originally intended to do that, but didn't work out where the hell I went wrong until making the WMG page.

Hmm... don't we only need to copy and paste the contents of one page, change one redirect, add two redirects, and change one link?
MarqFJA
09:51:50 AM Aug 23rd 2010
Right on the nail.
RainyDaze
09:55:40 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by RainyDaze
I'm wondering where the WMG/Laconic page will link to after that, however.

Well, you can get to them from there. It also has a link back to the Main page.
MarqFJA
10:26:58 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by MarqFJA
I thought that was obvious. What's ironic is that in some cases, the different namespace are too indiscriminate; observe the example of The Order and The Order, which are in no way related to each other besides coincidentally sharing the same name.

BTW, should we cutlist the "Main/" article? Or is there another way to remove that "Main" button at the top of the page?
RainyDaze
10:36:26 AM Aug 23rd 2010
If we do that there's going to be fifteen redlinks at the least..
Filraen
10:52:30 AM Aug 23rd 2010
If we move it "Main/" will have to be a redirect to "FanFic/".

My opinion is that it shouldn't be moved. I don't believe there will be a name conflict.
MarqFJA
05:37:06 PM Aug 23rd 2010
I just want hte Main button to go. And we should continue this on the new discussion page.
MarqFJA
topic
11:21:59 PM Aug 21st 2010
I think this Fan Fic deserves a dedicated forum thread, but I'd like everyone else's thoughts on this instead of unilateral action.
Unclouded_TJ
12:43:09 AM Aug 22nd 2010
I'd say wait a chapter to let the remaining hostility over this chapter die, but otherwise I'd be up for it.
RainyDaze
04:30:12 AM Aug 22nd 2010
I've never intentionally ended up on the forums, so I'm not that concerned. I say yes, though.
MarqFJA
12:26:09 PM Aug 22nd 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Okay, I'll give it two chapters to ensure that everything dies down; I've got a hunch that some of the more stubborn "complainers" will blow their tops when the next chapter turns out to be even "more of a Moral Event Horizon" than Chapter 29. Really now, I'd wish they'd grow up and suck it. Don't like, don't read.

In the meantime, I'd like to work up a good "spoiler statute", similar to the ones used in some anime and manga threads. A "five-post" limit seems a bit too little considering how, generally speaking, it's easier to open/download and read an online Fan Fic chapter in comparison to obtaining a manga scanlation or a fansubbed episode.
MarqFJA
topic
10:20:03 PM Aug 19th 2010
Anyone else having a problem with editing the page?
Filraen
11:03:48 PM Aug 19th 2010
I just tried to edit and had no trouble. Maybe other person was editing it at the time?
MarqFJA
08:10:51 AM Aug 20th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
It's not that it was locked, it's that none of my recent edits are being saved.

EDIT: Nevermind; problem resolved itself.
Shouri
topic
07:40:59 PM Aug 19th 2010
edited by Shouri
I'm pretty sure this is slightly inaccurate... no?

"Holding Back The Phlebotinum: A very practical example. Haruhi puts a leash on her powers by requiring that her wishes be approved by Yuki and Kyon. "

Coulda sworn it went like so: Haruhi didn't choose to need permission from the both of them in order to use her powers. She did later on though restrain her powers in general. So the entry seems half right half wrong. Anyone with a bit better knowledge of the story care to clear this up?
Unclouded_TJ
09:40:32 PM Aug 19th 2010
It was more a trial basis from her point of view. Kyon warned her that her power was dangerous and she was going in effectively blind on what exactly her power was. She accepted his judgment because he was the only one of the group that was honest to her. It would be more accurate to say Haruhi agreed to put a leash on her powers.
24.4.217.176
topic
05:16:19 PM Aug 19th 2010
"New (possibly unintentional) trope popped up in latest chapter." for Moral Event Horizon. Yeeeeah ... this, uh, seems to be overkill. Kyon admitting his feelings from the novel to Mikuru, and that he thinks she's cute is comparable to genocide and murder?

Granted, I can see that this may cause some sort of dissonance as it's the most proactive and forward that Kyon has been so far.... But isn't that more than just a little bit much?
Filraen
05:52:42 PM Aug 19th 2010
edited by Filraen
I'm not sure if Moral Event Horizon applies or not. First my opinion: I definitely didn't like disliked that part.

If I say no, I'm letting this scene pass without second thinking.

If I say yes, I'm saying that Kyon is beyond any hope of redemption.

Edit: [thinking] It may not like it, but he doesn't do anything wrong even if he may believe it... it should not go.

Edit2: [looks down] O.O
24.4.217.176
05:55:27 PM Aug 19th 2010
edited by 24.4.217.176
And given now that the story has been revised specifically because the author was offended that a 'vocal minority' considered the MEH to be valid...?

[Edit] From cache, this is the original paragraph that was changed:

  • "I know you said we shouldn't, but I've wanted to do that for _so_ long," he confessed, slightly short of breath, looking simultaneously pleased and guilty, his eyes almost glowing in the dim evening light. "I'm sorry ... Mikuru-chan. I know we shouldn't, but you're so cute...."
Unclouded_TJ
09:25:08 PM Aug 19th 2010
edited by Unclouded_TJ
I saw nothing that he even remotely came close to crossing a Moral Event Horizon because of the spoilers. It may be uncomfortable to some but keep in mind this story is heavily leaning towards Tenchi Solution ending. It's inevitable that he's going to express (or realize) his feelings towards most of the girls in this story. Crossing a Moral Event Horizon is definitely overkill for anything Kyon has done in this story.

[Edit] Upon seeing the unrevised dialogue I still only see a teenager overcome by a date and enjoying himself. Yes it may be considered cheating but again perspectives can be different.
MarqFJA
09:43:31 PM Aug 19th 2010
Agreed. I've just sent a PM to the author as a sort of sympathy letter  *... You know, to let him know that there are other readers who think that that vocal minority are being stupid. May I suggest that each off us do something similar, as a gesture of fandom solidarity?

Oh, and thanks for getting the original passage here... Whoever you are, since you obviously weren't logged in when you posted.

... Wait, isn't the author a troper here too?
Unclouded_TJ
09:55:36 PM Aug 19th 2010
Most likely but I can't find the author's handle. Probably would like to remain relatively anonymous on the site.
MarqFJA
10:11:54 PM Aug 19th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Yeah... And that also gave me an epiphany:

When I saw the "rant" at the end of Chapter 29, I immediately went to the FF.Net version to check on the reviews for that chapter... And lo and behold, nothing. I found not a single review that complained about "Kyon bypassing the Moral Event Horizon", etc etc. Now, at the time I chucked that to said complainers resorting to the Private Messaging system to avoid having others see their complaints and giving them flak for it.

However! After I checked the fic article's history, and reading your comment, I realized that there could've been something else that actually tipped the author off on the complaints: It's not unlikely that whoever added Moral Event Horizon to the list is one of the complainers, especially since the edit has no handle associated with it, meaning it was done anonymously.
RainyDaze
05:41:40 AM Aug 20th 2010
edited by RainyDaze
I've managed to forget what the original was. How... irksome.

A kiss being a Moral Event Horizon, though? So joining the Yakuza, hanging someone out of a window, and generally getting in a light of fights because of friendship isn't a Moral Event Horizon but kissing someone when he's already kissed Yuki, Tsuruya, and Haruhi is a Moral Event Horizon?

I didn't know we had so much Fan Dumb.

Oh, right, someone copied the original ending.
Unclouded_TJ
10:10:36 AM Aug 20th 2010
The best part is due to Timey-Wimey Ball he's already kissed Mikuru, too. Plus he knows he's had a relationship with her because of her future self so he might also be worried about causing a paradox there.
RainyDaze
11:54:11 AM Aug 20th 2010
After thinking about it, Kyon's admitting that he wanted to kiss Mikuru (and possibly kissing her again, I've forgotten) seems to be the problem. So... Kyon's character development as stated by Haruhi in one chapter  * - becoming less aloof and more companionable towards... well, everyone - is apparently a bad thing because he's become more inclined to say anything about himself.
MarqFJA
01:38:32 PM Aug 20th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Which is exactly why I think those "critics"' complaints are ridiculous. If Kyon's attraction to Mikuru was completely physical and he decided to fake having actual romantic feelings for her, that could be considered a Moral Event Horizon - although it would still be a long stretch to do so.
MarqFJA
06:49:54 PM Aug 20th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Good news: The author, Durandall, has cooled off, and... well, he decided not to let the irrational complaining get to him. It's also evident that he does frequent this page  *, because some of our opinions have actually pointed out a couple of problems in Ch. 29's original epilogue (not related to the aforementioned complaining, mind you) that were completely unintentional on his part.

Oh, and Chapter 29's going to re-updated relatively soon.
RainyDaze
12:43:41 PM Aug 21st 2010
It's been re-updated.
Filraen
topic
07:56:49 AM Aug 17th 2010
edited by Filraen
Is there a trope about the changes of addressing people as a way to show a relationship upgrade? The trope with that name won't work here as this isn't romantic.

Kyon calling Tsuruya: Tsuruya-san  * -> Tsuruya-sempai -> Tsuruya-kun (and she admitted she could let Kyon go for more).

Mikuru calling Yuki: Nagato-san -> Yuki-chan

Haruhi, Mikuru calling Tsuruya: Tsuruya-san -> Tsu-chan
RainyDaze
10:29:43 AM Aug 17th 2010
edited by RainyDaze
First Name Basis?

'The sudden switch in nickname or honorific when referring to a character, usually from their family name to their given name, is frequently used to demonstrate a significant change in the relationship between two characters, the desire for one by one party, or that they are Not Themselves. Never using any formal indicators and just calling a character by their exact name is about as common to show the same thing.'
MarqFJA
10:32:17 PM Aug 18th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
But for Kyon and Tsuruya, he's still on a Last Name Basis; the difference is just in the Japanese Honorifics.

Wait, what does Canon!Kyon usually use to refer to Tsuruya? I think that should be worth noting in the above progression.
RainyDaze
04:19:32 AM Aug 19th 2010
edited by RainyDaze
The trope name's a bit misleading, but the trope itself still applies. Specifically note this part: 'sudden switch in nickname or honorific when referring to a character'.
Filraen
03:08:30 PM Aug 19th 2010
Canon!Kyon refers her as Tsuruya-san (as seen in the movie epilogue)

Now I had time to read the Trope... but RD got first here to comment.
RainyDaze
12:53:38 PM Aug 21st 2010
With the latest chapter there's Asahina-san -> Mikuru-chan. Any other name changes before we actually add this trope?
MarqFJA
11:18:50 PM Aug 21st 2010
@Filraen: Only in the movie epilogue, or also in the visual novels?
RainyDaze
04:33:43 AM Aug 22nd 2010
Light novels, not visual novels. Anyway, I checked a table I picked up somewhere on the internet at one point (it says how the majority of characters refer to/address each other in canon) and everyone originally called Tsuruya 'Tsuruya-san'.
MarqFJA
12:23:30 PM Aug 22nd 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Sorry, my mistake.

Oh, and Filraen, you've made a slight mistake: Unless I'm misunderstanding something, even from Tsuruya's POV, Kyon still called her "Tsuruya-san" before switching to "Tsuruya-sempai" after they start working together in the investigation.
RainyDaze
03:34:30 PM Aug 22nd 2010
'Kyon calling Tsuruya: Tsuruya-san * -> Tsuruya-sempai -> Tsuruya-kun (and she admitted she could let Kyon go for more).'

No they didn't.
MarqFJA
03:51:59 PM Aug 22nd 2010
edited by MarqFJA
I'm referring to the hottip: 'First, from her perspective; in the fight against the 12 Yakuza'
MarqFJA
topic
03:38:31 PM Aug 11th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
How is Kyon a Chivalrous Pervert? Wouldn't he be more of a Covert Pervert? Chivalrous Pervert is defined by having both an active interest and desire for sex and being genuinely considerate of his Love Interest's feelings and opinions. Kyon, while naturally fulfillig the second part, fails halfway in the first, as while he definitely has a sexual drive, he makes a point of keeping his dirty thoughts to himself.
RainyDaze
01:25:52 AM Aug 13th 2010
'Uncharacteristically suggestive comments and thoughts from a character usually considered pure and innocent. Sometimes this is played straight and shows that a character is mature or smart enough to notice subtle themes their friends don't. Most of the time it's a trait given to a shy character to show they're not quite as mousy and meek as we think. Usually cued by fantasy segues becoming more and more lewd.'

How would anyone consider Kyon pure and innocent?

I think the question is more along the lines of 'is Kyon a pervert at all?'
Filraen
06:54:52 AM Aug 13th 2010
edited by Filraen
Argument in favor of Chivalrous Pervert: he has kissed many times. However, he was asked (Yuki, Tsuruya) or forced into it (Haruhi, Mikuru(big)), with the only exception of the last Mikuru(big) kiss.

Argument in favor of Covert Pervert: He actually doesn't initiate romantic movements. Even when he took a bath with Tsuruya and Yuki the former noticed Kyon not trying to peek them. And it's easy to forget in the source material he may not say everything he thinks.

Between the two, I think Kyon is more of a Chivalrous Pervert. However, RainyDaze's question is valid. As for that, I'm not sure.
MarqFJA
09:57:22 PM Aug 15th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Correction: He's closer to a Chivalrous Pervert, but still fails to be one. The "active interest in sex" is a core element of the trope; it's not just "someone who has dirty thoughts/impulses about his compatriots most/all the time yet refrains from acting on said thoughts/impulses". He has to actually pursue the affections of his Love Interest(s) and/or flirt with them a lot.
RainyDaze
02:16:39 AM Aug 16th 2010
He isn't the other merely because he doesn't fit one of them, however.
Filraen
06:35:22 AM Aug 16th 2010
edited by Filraen
Nobody is refuting that RD, actually Marq and my posts agree with that.

Let's remove the Chivalrous Pervert entry. Nothing to do in the Covert Pervert entry since Kyon isn't listed as example.
MarqFJA
11:27:38 AM Aug 16th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Agreed. On that subject, AFAIK Kanae is the only true Covert Pervert in the cast (getting blushes while [day]dreaming about "Sempai", anyone? How about being a Yaoi Fangirl?). Haruhi is canonically a Good Bad Girl / Ethical Slut (Distaff Counterpart of Chivalrous Pervert), and she hasn't changed; and while Hanyuu could qualify as Covert Pervert due to her monologue before meeting Yuki face to face, both girls following Kyon into the bath doesn't qualify them for the trope, let alone getting an eyeful of him. The latter is closer to Accidental Pervert.
Filraen
05:04:37 PM Aug 16th 2010
edited by Filraen
Yuki explaining Kyon she was "enjoying the view" while in Hinamizawa puts her as Covert Pervert for me.

Note that in her conversation with Kyon about her time in Hinamizawa (Gearing Up-1) Yuki's talking about Hanyuu as her friend, something that happened as an aftermath of the bath incident.
RainyDaze
06:43:07 AM Aug 17th 2010
Hanyuu, Yuki, and Kanae definitely qualify for Covert Pervert, in my opinion.

Especially Kanae.
MarqFJA
10:35:11 PM Aug 18th 2010
I concur. So I suppose we all agree that Haruhi does not belong under Covert Pervert, and that what she did was more along the lines of an indoor version of Outdoor Bath Peeping?
RainyDaze
07:20:02 AM Aug 19th 2010
I forgot Haruhi was even listed. I suppose that works, since no-one can expect Haruhi of all people to not be perverted.
MarqFJA
11:20:06 PM Aug 21st 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Chivalrous Pervert and Haruhi's Covert Pervert entries have been removed.
RainyDaze
topic
10:28:12 AM Aug 9th 2010
Surely it would be Inspector Zenigata, not Inspector Javert? Kyon is legitimately part of the Yakuza, after all, and whatever-her-name-is has hints (and possibly direct evidence) to indicate that. After all, Kyon may be a good person but he's still broken the law quite badly.
Filraen
11:35:37 AM Aug 9th 2010
edited by Filraen
She should be closer to Inspector Zenigata, even if she doesn't know everything yet.

When I read the tropes earlier I couldn't decide for which one to use so I opted for Hero Antagonist. Maybe I can't bring myself to see Kyon as a Lovable Rogue (and he definitely isn't a Villain Protagonist), nor I can see Akasaka Momoko being played for laughs, as the trope says it's usually used. Or maybe, at least for now, she isn't trying to arrest Kyon, just trying to get the full truth.
RainyDaze
12:02:24 PM Aug 9th 2010
And as soon as she gets the full truth, the amount of people Kyon has either threatened or injured is going to become quite obvious...
Filraen
12:20:33 PM Aug 9th 2010
That leaves us with two options: change the entry to Inspector Zenigata now or delete it and wait a few more chapters and add Inspector Zenigata then.

I suppose you'd take the former. Although I'd prefer the latter.
RainyDaze
12:58:36 PM Aug 9th 2010
I'd rather wait and it at the correct time. This was not selected to randomly contradict you.
Unclouded_TJ
01:07:19 PM Aug 9th 2010
I'd say remove the Inspector Javert trope and wait and see what trope she ends up falling into. Right now it could be either Inspector or be neither trope when it comes down to what will happen. Currently she's only being set up as a Hero Antagonist.
RainyDaze
topic
03:44:25 PM Aug 7th 2010
'Contrived Coincidence: The IDSE created tools for theoretical interactions with Alternate Universes, with a dimensional anchor being between those items. The last one created dates from millions of years. It was found in Tsuruya's backyard.'

I thought that it was the thing found in... Book 7? Rereading chapter 26, that's confirmed by Kyon's wording of the request.

Now, is it still a Contrived Coincidence? I think it might be, since the fact it's a dimensional anchor was certainly fortuitous.
Filraen
09:17:30 PM Aug 7th 2010
edited by Filraen
The fact that a strange item was found at Tsuruya's can't go as Contrived Coincidence here. If it is, it belongs to the Haruhi page.

The fact that the item found at Tsuruya's was the/a dimensional anchor created millions of years ago is a Contrived Coincidence that can go in this page (that anchor could have been destroyed, broken or located anywhere else in the universe). Maybe the entry should be reworded.
RainyDaze
04:04:08 AM Aug 8th 2010
Reworded.
RainyDaze
topic
03:32:05 PM Aug 4th 2010
Phrase Catcher: Yes, people say that phrase often, but not to a single person, instead a series of pictures. Running Gag, yes, Phrase Catcher? I don't think so.

Badass Boast: Somehow, that doesn't quite come across as Badass enough. Or much of a boast. 'May' does not fit into a boast, does it?

Series Mascot: What has that explanation got to do with mascots?
Filraen
06:16:46 PM Aug 4th 2010
edited by Filraen
Phrase Catcher: I didn't realize it was about saying the phrase to a single person.  read as

Badass Boast: I was going to add it a long time ago but now with the Initial Conflict arc it may not sound Badass enough.

Series Mascot: I forgot to delete it earlier. That really doesn't have anything to do with the trope.
RainyDaze
04:15:39 AM Aug 5th 2010
'It's common enough for a character to have a catchphrase but not everyone can spend all day spouting it themselves. A Phrase Catcher usually has that certain string of words in the air whenever they're around, but they'll be hearing it and someone else will be saying it.'

Something that's said to one person all the time. By the trope's criteria, it doesn't fit.

Where in the chapter?
Filraen
05:56:19 AM Aug 5th 2010
Maybe I put it wrongly, but I was agreeing with you. Phrase Catcher doesn't go.
RainyDaze
08:56:30 AM Aug 5th 2010
Oh, right.

Still, what to do about the Badass Boast? One of the definitions in the dictionary on my desk for boast is 'Speak too proudly of one's achievements'. The others are pretty much the same.

Admittedly you can boast about what you're going to do, but Kyon hardly seems to be boasting... I think that would require a slightly more definitive stateme-

Someone removed it whilst I was typing this? o.o
Filraen
01:55:10 PM Aug 5th 2010
I did, there's no point in trying to shoehorn a trope that may or not be right. We have plenty of them that are correct.
RainyDaze
topic
01:51:48 PM Aug 3rd 2010
Err... where the hell would Shout-Out entries on here fit into that page? I haven't a clue where to look.
Filraen
08:49:46 AM Aug 4th 2010
edited by Filraen
Since I don't believe listing the whole list there is a good idea, a Fan Works folder in the main page should be enough.

[checks page]

Then again, I saw Web Original had the entries for Shinji And Warhammer 40 K, Stray, Forward and Tiberium Wars, all of them in Fan Fics, just like K:BDH. I still like a Fanworks part though.
Filraen
topic
01:56:53 PM Aug 1st 2010
edited by Filraen
Before getting into an editing war, I don't agree with the addition of some tropes. Can anyone give me a good explanation about these?

Kuudere: I can't find Kanae's "cool-by-default" side that defines one: she's prone to daydream, blush and Freudian Slip.

Ninja Maid: defined as Meido + Action Girl. The Tsuruya family maids had shown be silent-working, "almost as a Ninja". But they hadn't shown the Action Girl part so it can't be a straight example. (Discussed? Parodied? Conversational Monologual(sp?) Troping?)

Overshadowed by Awesome: Again, defined as a charater who doesn't have a chance to be badass even if it should be. Even if Haruhi and Yuki are more powerful than him Kyon has Badass moments constantly: use his trump card, all the battles in Tsuruya's trials, convincing the Yakuza boss not escalating the fight to a battle to the death, stopping the van that was going to hit Haruhi. I don't believe Kyon goes here.

RainyDaze
02:41:26 PM Aug 1st 2010
edited by RainyDaze
The depressing part about Ninja Maid being Meido + Action Girl is that ninja weren't exactly fighters, they were assassins. Yet Ninja Maid requires someone not acting like a ninja.

It is lampshaded in Kyon's thoughts that the maid seems to be a ninja, even if she isn't a Ninja Maid by the definition of the trope. I wonder what we're meant to do now?

As for the Overshadowed by Awesome, it seems more like Kyon's overshadowing the awesome than the other way around.
Filraen
03:45:01 PM Aug 2nd 2010
edited by Filraen
OK, since we agree I'm deleting the Overshadowed by Awesome entry.

About Ninja Maid, I call Shout-Out to the trope name than the trope itself. I think that the entry should be moved there.

(Presonally I think the trouble is in the Ninja Maid trope name, however its name is too cool to change— starting by myself)

Now, sorry to insist but what happened with Kanae being a Kuudere? I still don't get it.

RainyDaze
03:19:31 AM Aug 3rd 2010
I don't have a clue about that one, but you're probably right. She reminds me more of Haruhi than anyone else in the cast... except even more perverted.
RainyDaze
topic
07:38:41 AM Jul 31st 2010
In the Blessed with Suck entry, it mentions Haruhi forgetting she has godlike power... but later on she used it. I thought she forgot about changing the way her power works (well, getting rid of closed space), gaining telekinesis, and, most importantly, altering her own personality. O_o
Filraen
01:17:29 PM Aug 1st 2010
edited by Filraen
Your question? Anyway, I see that part is relevant because it is a subversion later: keep the blessing while containing the suck, which happens to appear in Playing With/Blessed With Suck.
RainyDaze
02:42:52 PM Aug 1st 2010
I dislike the inaccuracy that it states Haruhi forgot she has godlike powers when she clearly didn't forget. I'm not sure how to edit it to reflect that.
MarqFJA
12:38:19 PM Aug 2nd 2010
It's more of a Trigger Phrase-secured Neuro-Vault than Laser-Guided Amnesia, to be honest. She technically sealed her original memory of how her powers work in the Neuro-Vault, and then replaced them with new memories that she hoped would solve the problem; and beforehand, she informed Kyon that he could use his original Trust Password as a Trigger Phrase to restore her memories if an emergency situation comes about.
Filraen
03:31:37 PM Aug 2nd 2010
edited by Filraen
I agree with the rewrite of that section.

After checking Neuro-Vault and Laser-Guided Amnesia I can also agree that the former is better suited for the Memory Gambit than the latter.
MarqFJA
topic
07:14:19 PM Jul 29th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
So we have this conversation between Mikuru and Kyon from "The Filler Arc (IV) - Chapter Eight: Relationship Building" (my boldface)...

"Perhaps you're right. Um, but I remember what you said, about ... making my own impressions in the world, and I wonder if it can really be done?"

"That's absolutely already happened," he returned, grinning. "Say ... when we nailed that can to the ground?"

What can is he talking about? No matter how much I look through the chapters concerning that day, I can find any trace of the "can-nailing". And just why does he not even ponder the fact that apparently his future self had talked with her after he left her at the bench (like he usually does in every other instance involving a Stable Time Loop)? It's as if he already did the Time Travel jump to that point and say that - which does not happen until the recently uploaded Chapter 24.
24.4.217.176
07:35:48 PM Jul 29th 2010
edited by Filraen
That actually is a continuity nod; that happened in the Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru. the seventh book, The Scheme of Haruhi Suzumiya
MarqFJA
07:56:53 PM Jul 29th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
I see... It's a pity that I have zero legal access to the light novels in my locale, otherwise I wouldn't be puzzling over every semi-obscure Continuity Nod or Mythology Gag due to lack of knowledge. TT_TT

That still doesn't answer my second point, however. Or am I missing something else?

Scratch that, I forgot about his first response a few lines above:
He didn't meet her eyes. "Well, you know me," he said, shifting his shoulders. "After your dizzy spell?"

RainyDaze
topic
07:19:54 AM Jul 29th 2010
Isn't the first Fridge Brilliance topic a bit off? The timeline split because of Nagato's deletion, not because of meeting the Anti SOS Brigade. Sure, the second one makes sense - though it's more of a Brick Joke - but the first one... doesn't.
Filraen
11:24:05 AM Jul 29th 2010
I agree on deleting or moving both examples.

On the same note, is the Kanae crying on Kyon a CMoFunny? I didn't delete it only because it's subjective.
RainyDaze
01:35:46 PM Jul 29th 2010
I checked chapter 2: it explains why Mikuru wanted to go into a different cafe, so it counts, but it has nothing to do with diverging timelines.

Still think the second one's a Brick Joke.
Filraen
topic
07:52:16 AM Jul 11th 2010
Why should be Badass Bookworm and Verbal Tic on this? They are characteristics of the novels/anime so it isn't something proper of the fic.
dragonKhorse
09:58:17 PM Aug 19th 2010
Badass Bookworm is gone. Verbal Tic stays because Tsuruya's father also has it, and they lose it when they get stressed.
24.6.155.45
topic
02:19:37 AM Jul 5th 2010
Stable Time Loop: When did Future Mikuru meet anyone other than Kyon and Miyoko?
back to FanFic/KyonBigDamnHero

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