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Zekumi
topic
07:19:06 AM Sep 12th 2013
edited by 173.80.97.210
I find myself kind of bothered by the many entries on the main page for Simba's Pride that reference or cite Nuka as having been Scar's son. Was this ever confirmed anywhere as canon? Most people usually take this from Nuka's line (concerning Kovu) that "Scar wasn't even his father. He just took him in.". To me, the purpose of this dialogue wasn't to imply Nuka is Scar's son, but to clarify to the audience that Kiara and Kovu aren't cousins (and consequently aren't in an incestuous relationship). I believe Nuka's bitterness at being snubbed as a successor stems from being older and therefor presumably first in line, not because he was actually blood-related to Scar.

Also, two things: 1) After Nuka has died, we get the line from Zira: "Scar, watch over my poor Nuka." If Nuka had also been Scar's cub, Zira surely would have said "our". 2) When Nuka lists the qualities that make him more deserving as an heir ("I'm the oldest, I'm the strongest, I'm the smartest,".) he makes no reference to what would presumably be the most qualifying attribute: direct blood-relation to Scar.

So in short, if Nuka really was supposed to be a descendent of Scar's, I think the movie would have just outright said that; there's no reason to beat around the bush.

I think that if people personally want to interpret his character that way, it's completely cool (Nuka does look like Scar), but I don't think it's canon, and consequently I'm kind of iffy about the multiple entries that cite this outside of YMMV. It implies that this is established in the movie, which it isn't.
FeatherWriter
topic
11:04:31 AM May 8th 2012
I'm pretty sure those "Actor Allusion" examples should be removed. Actor Allusion is a trope that's undergone a lot of decay. Examples should be INTENTIONAL shout outs within a work to the actor playing the part. They are not simply similarities between the roles that an actor has played. None of those examples seem like they really fit.
FeatherWriter
11:11:11 AM May 8th 2012
The Audible Sharpness Entry doesn't really work either. That trope is specifically for sharp things, not an elephant's foot.
min6char
topic
12:59:03 PM Aug 23rd 2011
Ok, I'm bringing this up in the discussion page first because I expect this will be quite contentious, and I don't want to offend anyone. To me, Rafiki pretty clearly constitutes a Magical Negro. Now, I understand that in a movie primarily about animals, human racial terms are a little silly, but let's talk voices. Although the voice cast is pretty multi-ethnic, Robert Guillaume (Rafiki's voice) is the only one to put on an overtly African-sounding accent, and his character is the kooky medicine-man mentor type. Rafiki is also the only one with any Swahili lines, even if it is quasi-Swahili gibberish. Also note that Simba, voiced by white Matthew Broderick, is the lost protagonist whose redemption Rafiki causes. So I feel, if the only character who shows any real cultural signs of being African also has magical powers and helps the Anglo-sounding protagonist on his path to redemption, that's a pretty cut and dry Magical Negro.
redslurpee
01:05:15 AM Aug 6th 2014
Could you write a description how Rafiki is a magical negro on the main page? I think it needs more than just "Rafiki."
LogoP
01:17:30 AM Aug 6th 2014
I'm sorry, I can't see it. Going by that logic, Mufasa, who is voiced by James Earl Jones & has an intimidating presence, should be listed as Scary Bald Black Leader Guy. Which would be just silly.

Obviously, human racial terms don't usually apply to animal designs. And voices are just that... voices.
SeptimusHeap
01:40:52 AM Aug 6th 2014
I'll say that voice actors are not an important enough aspect of a character to justify a trope's inclusion with them.
Werebereus
topic
06:29:02 PM Jul 25th 2011
edited by Werebereus
About the Whole "Nala's father" thing: You guys are wrong. TLK lions don't act like normal lions. If they did:

  • Mufasa would have MANY more kids but Simba's comment of "Yeah right, i'm your only nephew!"
  • The Monarchy thing is no argument: Real Monarchies preferred sons over daughters, but we dont see Nala screwing around with simba(nor is it implied) for a son over Kiara. Simba's talk of Kiara "Needing to carry on in his place" means she'd have more power than the King consort(Kovu). Kopa is not canon so no mentions of him please.
  • Nala's eyes are NOT green:
  • So no mentions of that "confirming her relations to Scar"(no seriously, whoever made up that reason or uses it is na idiot. Timon and Pumbaa both have black eyes; does that mean THEY'RE related?)
  • Zazu's comment of Simba/Nala's marriage being a tradition going back generations would basically mean Sarabi/Mufasa are related Ahadi/Uru are related, ect.
Also Disney confirmed nothing. They made an ASSUMPTION and "hoped no one would notice". They were put on the spot.
EJO1
09:20:05 AM Sep 15th 2011
For the first point, just because he said that he is Scar's only nephew doesn't mean that Simba's his only nephew. I might as well point out that it could just as easily mean that there were other kids and Simba was the only male among them.
PaulA
topic
10:38:04 AM Jan 9th 2011
Does "Simba's Pride" count as a Double Meaning Title?
Werebereus
06:36:13 PM Jul 25th 2011
Why do you think it would?
Depo
11:34:22 AM Oct 17th 2011
Probably because it refers to his pride and joy (his daughter) as well to the pride of lions he leads.
Motmot
topic
11:41:53 PM Nov 19th 2010
edited by Motmot
The Woobie page says: "Please note that The Woobie is a specific type of character that is supposed to draw the audience's sympathy. If the character is the Chew Toy, Butt Monkey, or is a Jerkass he is not The Woobie."

So why, pray tell, do we have this entry under The Woobie?

"The hyenas. Exiled in a crapsack territory by Mufasa and then wounded by the king who taught Simba "to respect all the creatures" (it seems that hyenas aren't even creatures...); abused by Scar during the Be Prepared sequence and later betrayed by their leader that blamed them for all his crimes in front of Simba; killed in numbers by Simba and the lionesses during the climactic battle (and even beaten by the calm, wise Rafiki as well); finally, badly hurt by a furious Pumbaa, only because "they call me Mister Pig!". Not surprising if many fans have a soft spot for them..."

When I cleaned up the page a while back I took that down, but it was put back up. The last thing I want to do is start an edit war, but I don't think this is a proper entry for that trope. Never in all the years I've watched The Lion King did I think the hyena's roles were meant to be sympathetic, nor did I even particularly pity them. Plus, I definitely don't think we were supposed to sympathize with them in any of the scenes during the battle in the climax (Rafiki and Simba/the lionesses kind of needed to defend themselves?), and mentioning Mister Pig incident is crossing the line a bit. Unfortunately, I'm thinking this was written by a Misaimed Fan. :/

At any rate, I don't want to remove it or move it to the YMMV page without other opinions to back up that move, so does anyone else have any thoughts?
Werebereus
06:45:15 PM Jul 25th 2011
The Hyenas weren't "Exiled" where'd you hear that? And Mufasa is only talking about the creatures within their borders.

Scar's comment of "He didn't show you what's beyond the northern border" clearly indicates they don't share territory. And he attacks them because they attacked his son.

Shenzi got a few bites out of him before he pins them down too. Most of the Hyenas FLEE rather than fight in the final scene. They run away in TROVES.

The Hyenas were evil, forcing the lionesses to overhunt, overhunting in general(See "A tale of two brother's" when they were allowed to share the prey within the land.) then kicked out. they harass Timon's colony for fun, since they don't seem too downed about not having a meal. Again: Evil and nothing more.
Panthera
10:44:22 AM Nov 24th 2011
I did, in fact, pity the hyenas when I watched the film as a child and even more when I became a teenager. Their untold backstory might be very tragic.

But I agree that they're not The Woobie because they were definitely not meant to draw the audience's sympathy.
WeirdRaptor
topic
10:55:28 PM Mar 12th 2010
This Tropr votes for th removal of the It's Been Done trope on this page. It's assinine, and nothing more than a Take That against The Lion King. Of course it's been done! The filmmaker's even admit to it. This seems just to be put here for the sole purpose of cheapen the film.
MoonLoon
07:56:59 PM Mar 27th 2010
edited by MoonLoon
Agreed about the Take That but only in regard to the "Kimba" jibe. Kimba the White Lion's plot has absolutely nothing to do with the Lion King plot in any way, other than they both take place in Africa and revolve around a lion, so it doesn't even fit the trope. However, the entries about the Shakespeare inspiration are alright and do nothing to damage/insult Lion King.
Motmot
02:31:11 PM Aug 3rd 2010
Agreed, taken care of, and added an extended note on 'Follow the Leader'.

As far as I know, there's really no problem with just removing things like that should you encounter them again.
whitelion43
08:57:14 PM Sep 6th 2011
Umm I agree about the overall plot but what about these "Strange Co-incedences"?
  • Carnavores eating Bugs as meat subsitute?
  • Main Villian with same disfigurement(Scarred left eye)?
  • Both Villians have Hyenas as Minions?
  • Hero returns to homeland to claim Kingdom?

Like I said "Strange Coincedences" because Hamlet had nothing to do with eating bugs or a scarred Ruler or even Hyena styled minions. Maybe a new Trope needs to be invented to cover this sort of thing if it's not a outright Follow the Leader but too many coincedences not to be copyed from another source
MrDeath
07:29:59 AM Sep 7th 2011
"Hero returns to homeland to claim Kingdom" is pretty broad in itself.
whitelion43
12:05:32 PM Sep 8th 2011
edited by ading
True but that still doesnt explain the other three
BewareTheWorlock
03:19:33 PM Oct 19th 2012
It doesn't have to, blind anime fanboy.
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