Disney Frozen Discussion

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Lancelot07
Topic
09:20:58 AM Apr 9th 2015
edited by Lancelot07
I like this film, but isn't it a bit obnoxious for all the sub-pages to say "even by the standards of Disney" ("Frozen is really funny/sad/scary" etc) That sounds like really heavy YMMV. Wouldn't it be enough to say "Frozen is really funny/sad" etc. without that first line?
ztkderp
Topic
05:20:28 PM Dec 20th 2014
I am nearly 100% sure that Elsa using her powers on Anna during their confrontation at the castle was not accidental. Elsa wanted Anna to leave and wanted her to stop telling her to fix the winter. She also explicitly stated the she can't fix the winter and refuses to try to. So her "I can't" at the end is retaliation against Anna and is out of pure anger for Anna trying to get Elsa to fix the winter. Her building the snow monster to KILL Anna also reinforces that it is intentional. And the writers originally also wanted it to be intentional as shown in "Life's Too Short."
Tuckerscreator
05:45:40 PM Dec 20th 2014
She did not build Marshmallow to kill Anna. Marshmallow initially just tossed Anna and co out of the castle, only charged at them when she attacked him, then after that just yelled at her to leave and not come back. If Elsa wanted Anna dead, she wouldn't have broken down in tears when she saw her sister's frozen corpse. As for Life's Too Short, back then Elsa was the villain and therefore would commit actions like attempted murder. Also, note their wording: they meant it then to be intentional, which therefore means it's not intentional now, in the finished draft. Elsa freezing Anna intentionally would be massively out of character in the final film, when she spent a whole decade shut in her room specifically so she would never do that.
ztkderp
08:03:03 PM Dec 20th 2014
Ok, I get what you are saying, but I still see the ice blast as something other than a pure accident. After all, Elsa was angry at Anna for bringing up the Endless Winter. Also, Elsa might have not wanted to kill her with the blast, but she may have blasted her as Big "Shut Up!", not realizing it implications. Also, couldn't she have just made an ice slide, or used an ice wall to make Anna leave instead of making an easily angered 100 foot snow monster. (Yeah, Elsa's a bit of a "Fixer Upper")
SatoshiBakura
08:30:49 PM Dec 20th 2014
Well, what's the first thing you would do when you're freaking out that you've just injured your sibling? Elsa clearly wasn't thinking clearly at the time.

Even if the ice blast wasn't an accident, it's still pretty clear that Elsa didn't mean to hit Anna. Look at the horror on her face after the Big "Shut Up!" scene.
beack7
08:42:02 PM Dec 20th 2014
To finish the up, here's how the scene is described in the screenplay: "Elsa’s fear, so strong, sucks the blizzard back into her and then it bursts out, unwittingly, like a sharp snowflake."
FairyDreamer
09:29:05 PM Feb 17th 2015
Elsa wasn't angry. She was panicking and Anna wasn't helping the matter. Having been in a similar situation (without magical ice, of course), I can tell you that the last thing someone under Elsa's state at the time needs is someone else going on and on and on about how to "help".
C105
Topic
03:41:09 PM Dec 9th 2014
Would there be a specific trope covering the bowlderisation of the painting of which Anna imitates the pose (that one - it's referenced in the main page under the Mythology Gag trope) ? The original features a man who gets a very special view of the woman on the swing, but he is absent from the painting appearing in the movie. Unless that counts as a Getting Crap Past the Radar ?
SatoshiBakura
Topic
08:43:11 AM Oct 11th 2014
Tightwire, you have got to stop screwing with these pages. I know they're a huge chunk of spoilers that you don't like, but that doesn't automatically mean that they need to be removed.
FairyDreamer
Topic
12:12:26 PM Oct 9th 2014
A couple of questions. Why was the "Awesome Music" link removed from the quote below the bottom of the main page image ("The cold never bothered me anyway") and why is it now 52nd instead of 53rd? Where's the proof for that?
Larkmarn
12:27:49 PM Oct 9th 2014
Sugar Wiki stuff doesn't get linked on the main page.
FairyDreamer
03:21:57 AM Oct 11th 2014
That answers one question.
Larkmarn
10:24:06 AM Oct 15th 2014
Wikipedia says it's 53rd. 52nd was probably just an error.
lexicon
Topic
02:56:29 PM Oct 8th 2014
Is Love at First Sight deconstructed in this or exploited? It was changed on the character page and I've already taken it to the 'is this an example' thread so please go there to add your option.
Larkmarn
12:29:35 PM Oct 9th 2014
I'd say exploited. Deconstructed would be showing issues Love at First Sight has in real life (usually in the case of being In Love with Love and becoming bored of your partner because you liked them for superficial reasons). In this case, Hans is taking advantage of the trope to his own end in a not-terribly-realistic way.
snowviolet
Topic
05:57:26 PM Jun 17th 2014
I hear some people call Elsa a Mary Sue. Big Woobie, incredible powers, lack of real negative flaws, Creator's Favorite, to name a few. Due to Elsa being pretty loved, many don't seem to think so. Would she count as any kind? A mild Sympathetic Sue?
isoycrazy
07:26:41 PM Jun 17th 2014
None to all for me. One of the key aspects of any Sue character is a lack of character flaw. Her depression and deep rooted fears of hurting others with her powers driving her to cause more internal angst is very much a character flaw. This seems more like "calling a protagonist you don't like a Mary Sue" idea.

For Creator's pet, no. She fails the criteria: Hated by fans (The Scrappy): No. Elsa is very popular with most fans. Loved (or worshipped) by the writers (Creator's Favorite): Possibly. But she is a duantologist to the story. It is as much her growth and development as it is Anna's. Put into big scenes for no reason (Character Focus): No. She has very good reasons to have her screen time. Talked up by the other characters (Character Shilling): No. Not even Anna put her on a higher pedestal.
H.TorranceGriffin
Topic
03:02:14 AM May 23rd 2014

Not pulling this yet, but... how is it particularly contrived for someone to show up planning to seduce his way to the throne? We do not see such complaints over the Duke.
SeptimusHeap
03:04:44 AM May 23rd 2014
Also, that reads like an Zero-Context Example.
Atreides
Topic
10:29:30 PM May 18th 2014
Removed this trope: "* Murder the Hypotenuse: Kristoff's family, the trolls, lightly suggest he get Anna's "fiance out of the way!" so he can make his move. ". This phrase can have many meanings, not just murdering someone, and it's very unlikely that this is what the trolls meant.
ironballs16
Topic
06:33:35 AM May 10th 2014
An odd thing I noticed but not sure where (or whether) to put it - the tune of "Do You Wanna Build A Snowman?" (at least the opening bars) is damn-near identical to Sweeney Todd's "Not While I'm Around".
TheWildWestPyro
Topic
04:41:47 AM Apr 29th 2014
Why is this suddenly called F Rozen?
Larkmarn
06:06:27 AM Apr 29th 2014
You clicked on a link where someone linked it poorly. See The Problem with Pen Island.
pittsburghmuggle
Topic
10:08:37 AM Apr 20th 2014
""Shut Up" Kiss: Anna gives Kristoff one when he starts babbling."

I don't remember that - I thought their first kiss was at the end of the movie after he says "I could kiss you".
OnThehill
Topic
09:47:30 PM Apr 9th 2014
edited by 74.77.27.153
Would it be alright to put Broken Aesop back up on the main page? Regardless of whether or not Kristoff and Anna's relationship solving everything, regardless of the fact that they don't get immediately married in the end, he's very clearly framed by the narrative as Anna's one true love and someone who probably could have saved her if the incident with Elsa hadn't happened. After two, three days of knowing each other.
lalalei2001
09:53:22 PM Apr 9th 2014
We don't know if he could have saved her or not.
OnTheHill
11:07:44 PM Apr 9th 2014
That's irrelevant. Anna and Olaf have a big, significant discussion on love, and how Kristoff loves her, and then there's the dramatic five minute race to get Anna to him so she can be saved. It's only at the last moment that Anna chooses to save Elsa, knowingly giving up her "cure" in the process.

The overall message is that yes, what this man feels for you is true love and real love and it's powerful enough to save you from turning to ice, even though you've only known each other for a grand total of two days. Hence, Broken Aesop.
Thecommander236
04:37:02 PM May 4th 2014
But Kristoff didn't realize Anna was dying. He thought Hans would save her, but saw the blizzard forming. There was no reason for him to think that Hans was a bastard, Anna was still dying, and that Elsa was about to be murdered. He was worried Elsa's storm would kill her regardless of Hans' "true love" for her. Also, they don't nearly rush their relationship as much and Kristoff is too shocked to even react when she freezes whereas Elsa, who's known her a lot longer, breaks down completely. There's no real indication that Kristoff's and Anna's love is true love yet, just Anna's naivety about love convinces her that it is true. That was the whole point of Elsa being the one to save her. That love was forged over years whereas Hans' and Anna's was days old.
scrooge20mcduck
Topic
06:52:55 AM Mar 17th 2014
How come "Accent Adaptation" was deleted?
SeptimusHeap
09:08:45 AM Mar 17th 2014
It was never listed in this page in the first place.
scrooge20mcduck
01:53:35 PM Mar 18th 2014
I'm referring to the main page.
SeptimusHeap
11:46:52 PM Mar 18th 2014
On Accent Adaptation you mean? Can't find anything there either. Also, I feel like asking why you put your question here rather than there.
BarGamer
Topic
12:11:49 AM Feb 6th 2014
During "Let It Go," would Elsa tossing her crown away be a subversion of a "Crowning Moment of Awesome" or just a really terrible pun? I can't tell, EVERYTHING'S funny at 3AM.
Tuckerscreator
12:18:10 AM Feb 6th 2014
I think you mean the opposite of Awesome Moment of Crowning.
Kimba1957DG
Topic
10:34:53 PM Feb 5th 2014
since its already mentioned in trivia about at one point in development Elsa was at one point was a all out Disney villain , That under the trope, Missing Trailer scene that the scene containing the lines Now we just have to survive this blizzard!" and Anna replying "That's no blizzard; that's my sister!" with Elsa then conjuring up a blast of snow on top of the mountain is possibly from that version of the film
EricW
Topic
02:52:53 AM Feb 2nd 2014
Ok, so since it's under the trivia section, I pose this question: Does Elsa get over her childhood fears of her powers by Epiphany Therapy. There's certainly a case to be made for it, but my question is whether putting that on the tropes page might cheapen the journey the sisters go through.
PrincessCornflower
Topic
08:13:38 PM Jan 21st 2014
This bugs me. People seem to forget about the fact that the oringally Snow Queen has a sister called the "Lady of the Summer". Gerda goes straight too the lady of summer after 'talking' to a tree in one version.
GreatWyrmGold
Topic
06:21:54 PM Jan 19th 2014
People keep saying that Anna's sacrifice cured her frozen heart, but didn't the moment she actually froze coincide with the moment she performed this sacrifice?

Am I missing something?
Telcontar
01:06:05 AM Jan 20th 2014
Hm. I saw it as Anna's sacrifice coincidentally being at the very moment she froze (which allowed her to survive), and this sacrifice cured Elsa's frozen heart which meant she was able to thaw Anna. I may also be missing something, though.
Thecommander236
04:41:17 PM May 4th 2014
I figure that the true love must be mutual. A true love's kiss is mutual, for example. Elsa didn't realize that Anna sacrifice until after she noticed her head was still attached to her shoulders. Anna and Elsa hadn't embraced in years. In fact, Elsa hasn't touch anyone else's bare flesh in years not even her parents. Breaking down to the point where she HAD to embrace Anna out of grief proved her love was true as well.
princesscornflower
Topic
12:58:20 PM Jan 18th 2014
Could someone please, please please tell me/know the names of the other paintings beside the "Swing" painting in the "For the First Time in Forever" song? It's driving me bonkers and my parents are telling me to let it go I'm getting that upset.
Thecommander236
04:50:06 PM May 4th 2014
You can probably find the song online.
Telcontar
01:11:37 AM Jan 8th 2014
Elsa was very similar to Elphaba including in her main song, which lots of people have pointed out, but I didn't notice any specific references or gags to that effect. (Then again, I watched it in German, so I might have missed something. (Interestingly, German!Elsa is sung by Willemijn Verkaik who, like Idina Menzel, played Elphaba on stage.))
PrincessCornflower
01:31:08 PM Jan 22nd 2014
Well there are similarities both of them have names that start with E and and in A. Both of them Elphba and Elsa have powers of some sort. Their power is more frightening (?) when their emotions are running high (aka are being pushed). Both of their main songs are about 'being free' not having to be the 'perfect girl' anymore. Oh and both of them are the older sibling of another character.
Thecommander236
04:52:37 PM May 4th 2014
Any way you look at it, it would all go into the trivia section.
deimos415
Topic
04:52:48 PM Jan 5th 2014
Been wondering, maybe it comes off as being pedantic, but does anyone else think that Anna and Elsa's dresses (not counting the latter's magic ice-gown) qualify mores as Simple Yet Opulent instead of Pimped-Out Dress? The rosemaling is beautiful work, but really, compared to dresses worn by their contemporaries- their dresses are more in line with Merida's turquoise presentation number and Aurora's signature princess dress (blue or pink, your call) than say, Belle's golden ball gown or Tiana's post-kiss-magic gown. ...could just be me.
DragonQuestZ
02:26:05 AM Jan 22nd 2014
Rosemailing on a dress would require lots of stitching, which would be extravagant in the past. It's not as though those could just be slapped on the dresses.
thesupremeone
Topic
10:21:32 AM Dec 29th 2013
edited by 24.54.160.182
This troper was thinking about the chandelier and Hans thing, he looks up, runs over the the mook, pulls the crossbow into his field of view, and fires, as we have all figured out. What occurred to me is if Hans is Dangerously Genera Savvy, then the related trope Reality Ensues should be pulled into play. I have seen a chandelier fall on someone before, and what happens is the chandelier hits, the glass goes flying, and you find yourself waking up with some broken ribs under a twenty pound metal frame. That in mind, Hans doesn't know that Elsa froze Anna's heart, so he would be under the impression that he still needs to marry Anna. Anna won't marry him if he lets Elsa die, and he knows Elsa won't be willingly leaving the ice palace any time soon. So the only way to not kill Elsa and get her out without remotely seeming like a jerkass would be to somehow incapacitate her without it being his fault. If he is as Dangerously Genera Savvy as we think, he would have thought about all of this on the way to the ice palace, and then it would have probably been on his mind as he ran into the room. Let no Crisis go to Waste, and ta da, problem solved through Xanatos Speed Chess, he gets Elsa easily within reach for when she needs to die, and he doesn't have any blood on his hands, he wins that round.
Thecommander236
04:49:17 PM May 4th 2014
He looks benevolent and reasonable, while still playing the crowd and the victims.
rDrewD2
Topic
07:52:58 AM Dec 19th 2013
Under the Catchphrase section, Oaken and Family's fondness of saying "Yoo-hoo!" is mentioned, but it seems that Anna's usage of "Wait, what?" is overlooked. It's subtle, but she uses the phrase many times throughout the film, with Kristoff borrowing it in the epilogue. Thoughts?
Aubri
06:46:49 AM Jan 8th 2014
edited by 12.4.27.248
I don't think "Wait, what?" or "Yoo-hoo!" count as catchphrases at all. Just because someone says something a few times doesn't make it their catchphrase — in order to be one, it has to be a defining line for the character. Something along the lines of "It's clobberin' time!" "Bazinga!" or "Holy ____, Batman!"
donaithnen
Topic
08:48:18 AM Dec 6th 2013
@Hidden Windshield, can you explain this edit please?


That's tot an example of Cradling Your Kill. The kill wasn't deliberate, and it was more of a hug than a cradle. Deleted line(s) 68 (click to see context) :
  • Cradling Your Kill: Elsa hugging Anna, who was already frozen solid after being accidentally cursed by the former.

The page in question does not seem to require that the death be intentional, in fact there are a number of examples there that are from accidental kills. Now does literally cradling seem to be a requirement. (And really, how was she supposed to cradle Anna when she was frozen stiff?) So can you think of some other reason why this doesn't fit?

Thanks!

Thecommander236
04:46:27 PM May 4th 2014
It fits the trope. I don't know why it was removed. It also falls under My God, What Have I Done?.
ztyran
Topic
03:49:50 PM Dec 4th 2013
Two things, both about Elsa. The first is that I don't think that Pimped-Out Dress is right for her dress as the Snow Queen, as it seems a bit tame compared to what her contemporaries wear. Also her song "Let it go" feels like we should add a Then Let Me Be Evil trope.
rDrewD2
08:04:37 AM Dec 19th 2013
edited by 142.105.245.127
I would say it's fair enough to put Elsa's magical ice dress under the Pimped-Out Dress trope, as while it isn't as flamboyant or extravagant as other examples, it *is* made out of magical freaking ice! Also, that split on the skirt...
Telcontar
10:30:26 AM Dec 19th 2013
I think Elsa doesn't fit under Pimped-Out Dress — basically the definition of pimping it out is having frills or flowers or whathaveyou. However, I would call it Impossibly Cool Clothes.
DragonQuestZ
02:27:40 AM Jan 22nd 2014
Check out some high resolution pictures of the dress. It's certainly loaded.
SeptimusHeap
02:37:55 AM Jan 22nd 2014
Judging by high-resolution images I can find, it seems a little ... inconspicuous to me.
DragonQuestZ
08:16:23 AM Jun 23rd 2014
edited by 71.108.75.39
Pimped Out means decorated, not "in your face" decorated. The decorations still have to be there (why a dress such as Aurora's just counts as Simple Yet Opulent), but they don't have to be immediately obvious.
xPixelxDustx
Topic
08:56:24 PM Jul 11th 2013
When can we add a Characters page...? There are new pictures!
Telcontar
01:22:30 AM Jul 12th 2013
Whenever you like! Just go to Characters.Frozen and start editing.
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