Discussion DethroningMoment / YugiOh

Joey's actions and remarks towards Kaiba in the episode where he arrives at Duelist Kingdom. Kaiba makes it clear that he intends on saving his brother from Pegasus after he kidnapped him and refuses to take part in the Tournament saying he'll find his way into the castle and save him. But Joey will have none of that after his remarks and claims that their problems are bigger than his. Uh Joey, your a brother right? Right, and you need the prize money to save your Sister's eyesight right? Right, so if Serenity was captured by them your going to do whatever it takes to save her from them, look at Yugi wanting to save his grandfather and yet he acted as if Kaiba had the nerve to do things his way instead of sticking to The Power of Friendship. Kaiba didn't even plan on dueling Pegasus and winning the tournament as that was a last resort, he planned on sneaking in and busting Mokuba out and gettting out of there before anyone knew he was there. It wasn't until Pegasus pulled a Sadistic Choice on him that that happened. And heck, Kaiba was actually being civil towards them even thanking Yugi for saving his Deck until Joey opened his mouth and talked smack about him. Kinda made me glad when they dueled it was a Curb-Stomp Battle.

Hid this entry because it didn't happen exactly as such originally. It was a result of stuff being lost in translation via both early series and dub.

On top of merely being an addition to another entry, it's not focusing on a single moment. I'll put it up in the discussion tab so the original writer can fix it when they please.

• Ciel12: Absolutely agree, with the following additions: 1) The writers had put Yami into an unworkable corner just to make him play the seal. However, the ante wasn't defined- what did Raphael have to gain if he had won? 2) Does feel very much like badly done Aesop Amnesia. In DM it's implied he only does what he does because he's afraid of losing the chance to save Grandpa- in other words, there were actual stakes, and in the manga, Pegasus forced him to duel Kaiba, as only one of them could enter the castle. And Yami grew out of it, promising not to disregard Yugi's wishes. If it had been Takashi, I doubt he would have Yami trying to win if it puts the world at stake- Yami feels he has to win all the time partially because he is under pressure to protect everyone. There's no way he would put them in danger like that. 3) Even with that, it's bad enough, but then the dub makes it worse. The Japanese at least gives Yami's behaviour a plausible reason- that he puts his honour and refusal to give up before anything else. But the dub calls it 'anger'. Anger over what, exactly? Losing? They never explain! 4) THEN we get the whole false 'you were evil/ruthless despot' scenario delivered to Yami by practically every villain. And no-one points out that the Egyptians wouldn't commemorate him as a great Pharaoh after his death if they didn't really think so. Also had a case of plot wastage in that it could have been pointed out that while Yami's powers were dark, he used them to protect and not resurrect homicidal space lizards. And poor Yami has to endure multiple breaking speeches over this point. The Japanese is more mature, but in the English everyone starts calling the Pharaoh 'evil' over one stupid mistake. That's jumping the gun just to create conflict- why does Mai, who totally turns on the heroes, not get nearly the same treatment? The Pharaoh only has maybe three moments in the anime when he goes too far. 5) The English dragged out the resolution of his 'anger' past the point it had already been resolved- during the duel with Dartz. In the dub, he then mentions it when taking on the magic attack of the Great Beast itself, thus robbing us of one of the most badass lines, where he tells the beast to 'let the world's darkness rest on my shoulders!!' 6) Dartz never apologises for any of the stress he put everyone through. Similarly, Rebecca and the Pharaoh never resolve their differences. 7) Also, they screwed with the canon. 8) ...And then the English dub cuts out some call backs to the Doma arc in the next season, such as the Pharaoh still having guilt over what happened to Yugi, or Joey wondering if Mai is okay. It's as though the writers were trying to pretend it never happened... So, yeah. I'm going back to the manga-verse now.