Looking at the edit history, it looks like the same person used aliases to make three different entries. The entries are "No Second Prances", "Parental Glideance", and "Honest Apple."
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I am admittedly guilty of making a similar entry. I'll tone mine down, now...
Should the "No Second Prances", "Parental Glideance", and "Honest Apple" entries be removed?
I noticed there were two entries for Parental Glideance; it's hard to tell with the whole thing being a dang essay, but there were two.
Someone With a Computer
This is something I personally need to find out for myself; does the "one entry per work" rule apply to the show in general, or to each different season? No reason; just curious.
Edited by SenorCornholio Hide / Show Replies
About this entry:
- Princess Spike
- CrazyLuigi: Well I was trying to wait for someone else to go and say something here, but since no one else is going to, I will. In fact, I'm actually going to replace my previous moment here (which was Dragon Quest) with this particularly painful episode. Seriously, I felt pain through watching it, and I don't say that lightly. With my previous example from Dragon Quest, I had talked about how it made a story that had great potential and ruined all together (or at least, it did until the Gauntlet of Fire restored some faith in that regard). However, this story actually revealed a kind of story I actually hate more than wasted potential after all; that type of story is having something that'd normally be considered boring or uninteresting and insulting one's intelligence in the most asinine of ways possible. But I'm getting too ahead of myself there. It should actually be noted that I knew I was getting into something bad the moment Spike made his introduction to the delegates at the conference at hand (especially considering the response immediately afterwards), but I didn't realize how awful it'd really get until further on down the line. Long story short, Twilight Sparkle needs some rest because she had been working on setting up the Grand Equestrian Pony Summit for three days straight, Spike goes from trying to make sure Princess Twilight gets her rest she needs to eventually being the decision maker, shit goes down badly for Spike, and he then has to apologize for the things he did wrong. Now that may not sound like much, and the plot may be similar to what you could find from other shows that did this kind of thing like Codename: Kids Next Door, but trust me, the execution of the story will explain everything here. With this story, pretty much everyone involved here held the Idiot Ball at one point or another in the worst ways they could have for this episode. While this technically started out with Spike trying to go for his speech to display his importance, it really began with all the princesses since it episode didn't display any of the other princesses involved with anything else during the summit, and instead, showcased that just about everything needed Princess Twilight Sparkle's approval, which would be rather stupid considering the same princesses were still out at the event (or at least Princess Cadence). He then takes care of some of the things that would wake Twilight up, such as birds, a polo game, construction for a broken water valve, and cutting down... the fucking Dragon Sneeze Trees. Ignoring that fucking eyesore of a problem for one minute, we then have the delegates that came to see Twilight Sparkle. That mess all began with two delegate ponies arguing about... who deserves to speak first at their event. Never mind the fact that one pony already stated that they had first dibs and we don't really know what the economies of either city are like for each delegate speaking. While Spike tries to get the best decision on his own due to the princess needing her rest, the end result there wound up with a complete shitstorm going on with many delegates complaining that Spike's decision he made (as "approval" by Princess Twilight) due to an overcrowded hall, delegates shouting over each other, and a pony having a seat taken by a (former) friend of his. Did I also mention the same pony had quite the rude mouth over Spike, saying he doesn't need advice from a random dragon? Anyways, Spike appears to solve the problems of every delegate that came to see Princess Twilight, but between the former blunder and a later fact that Fancy Pants was supposed to have had special treatment as host delegate (from a later mention from Twilight Sparkle), it doesn't leave enough time for Spike's first problem to be brushed away and implies that he might have made things worse for the summit (which he did, but for different reasons that'll be talked about real soon). After his first decisions named "for Princess Twilight" were done, he tries to do more things for the summit (one of which includes talking with the guy that was supposed to have fixed up the broken water valve), only to finally have a princess show up in Princess Cadence. Even though we don't see her doing much of anything herself throughout the event, she does "warn" Spike not to enjoying his actions for his own gain. So what does Spike do? Take a wild guess. Yet that's not the "best part" of all this. After going on with his decisions and saying that none of them so far caused any harm, we then see just about every one of Spike's first problems for waking Twilight Sparkle roll itself up altogether to create a flood in the main hall... with the flowers from the Dragon Sneeze Trees being a part of the flooding. Seriously, I have to say that these Dragon Sneeze Trees are the worst catalyst for a story I've seen in this show, especially since the problem could have easily been replaced smoothly by having something else that grew on trees that Spike was allergic to! Also, water valves only work for floods when they're on, not off. Anyways, after Princess Cadence solves the valve problem in what's admittedly one of the only rare moments that was cool (the flood problem was solved due to Fancy Pants opening the door after Spike was too stupid to not evaporate the water with his fire breath), we then see Spike sneeze because of the Dragon Sneeze Tree's flowers being all over him, thus wrecking the statue that showcased unity for the event there. Not long after, the rest of the delegates (minus the other princesses) come to see the ruined hall, wondering why it came to happen in the first place, and then form an angry mob against Twilight Sparkle for Spike's decision making. Of course, the moment Spike does come to her rescue, the princess suddenly decides to wake up at "the perfect time" (even after Spike made one last yell to the delegates that she's sleeping), which results in Spike almost jumping off the tall building from Twilight's bedroom. Granted, he didn't do that, but after all that happened, it feels rather excessive over what happened, especially considering the problem only happened due to Spike's first decisions to help Twilight Sparkle sleep, not any other decision that happened after that. So now Spike apologizes to the delegates about how his decisions that made himself feel good ruined the event (even though it wasn't really the case), and the guy tries (and fails) on his own to fix the event's statue. Luckily, the delegates do help out the little guy in the end, and if that were it, I would have just found it to be another Trade Ya! with how a sweet little moment barely (but not really) saved the episode from complete turmoil. Unfortunately, that sadly is not the case; the episode ends with Spike being handed a bouquet of flowers from the Dragon Sneeze Trees, which results in Spike sneezing at the recently repaired statue (under a Fade to Black screen) just to end the episode on a stupid joke that didn't need a joke like that in the first place. That, to me, was the biggest "Fuck You" moment that made this episode become my newest, least favorite episode of the entire series, especially since another moral that could be interpreted from that is "no matter what you do as a team, it can all be fucked over in an instant." It also really hammered home the notion that Spike is nothing more than a pure Megward The Wizard to this series now, which especially sucked considering how well done Spike's episodes from both Seasons 4 & 6 were, yet Season 5 just made him feel like nothing more than a joke. I apologize for making my entry so long, but honestly, there was no way I could have given my newest entry justice without explaining in precise detail as to why this episode completely pisses me off in ways not even promising episodes like both Putting Your Hoof Down and Dragon Quest did. This is officially my newest, most hated episode from the show, and while I do wish we haven't had more episodes with boring/non-entertaining stories around for Season 6 (and maybe even longer than that), I'm at least thankful that none of them are as downright awful as this one was.
Several blatant errors were in Aquamarine Gavial's moment for "Magic Duel":
Trixie's "redemption" during the last few seconds of the episode officially marked, for me, where Pandering to the Base not only interfered with the writing and subsequent quality of an episode, but made me dislike the "redemption of bad guys" thing that became prominent in this season (Babs Seed and Discord being other offenders). The ending is so blatantly pandering towards Trixie-fans that it's painful to watch.
There is zero credible evidence that the decision was based on pandering of any kind. A story where a simple prideful jerk from a past episode goes in over her head and gets corrupted would pretty naturally lead to a redemption and humbling at the end, especially on this kind of show.
This episode turned her from a discredited fraud into a revenge-seeking mini-tyrant and then said "Not really; it was the amulet all along! She's actually a good guy."
The amulet being responsible for her becoming a tyrant was very obvious from literally the beginning, and the info that it was responsible came toward the middle of the episode, not at the very end. The entry acts as if this was a plot twist when it was not.
And then we're supposed to consider it consistent that five seconds of the character acting like an innocent bystander victim full of bluster would fit with one episode of her being a Miles Gloriosus Alpha Bitch who suddenly fled town when it became obvious she was a Small Name, Big Ego, and a second episode where she seeks revenge (for an upstaging she herself set up) in the face of warnings with an amulet that - for all the fuss over its More than Mind Control properties - essentially did what she wanted it to do to begin with.
Trixie did not at all act like an "innocent bystander victim", she admitted it was her fault for taking the amulet and asked for forgiveness. And how was Trixie ever an Alpha Bitch? I do not think that trope means what this entry thinks it means.
Heck, she was still a sadist even after it was removed and the mind-control eyes went out, by attacking Rainbow Dash with a (weak) Agony Beam.
The amulet's effects had to take a while after removal to fade, just as they gradually grew worse while it was on. "Sadist" means taking pleasure in pain, Trixie was just angry when shooting at Rainbow Dash with no hint of enjoyment. And Agony Beam? Really?
The overall effect is of the writers trying to eat their cake and have it at the same time, and it's both transparent and insultingly stupid. That's not the only case of Bad Writing in the show, but it's one of the worst.
Oh no, a show called "Friendship is Magic" dares to have antagonists become repentant and be forgiven by the protagonists! Horrible writing! Beyond the factual errors, this blatant denial of what the show is solidifies why this entry makes no sense being on here.
Edited by Isaac_Heller Hide / Show Replies
"There is zero credible evidence that the decision was based on pandering of any kind."
A former jerkass and one of the most popular antagonistic characters of the earlier episodes returns and is written to be a good guy at the very end. They do the exact same thing with Discord five episodes later. Not knock-down proof, of course, but given its last-minute nature and limited narrative purpose (see below), it's suggestive at the very least.
"A story where a simple prideful jerk"
A "simple prideful jerk" makes it sound like she was merely brusque and inconsiderate, or even as endearingly boastful as Rainbow Dash. Considering the "simple prideful jerk" spread blatantly outrageous lies about her prowess and then goaded and physically humiliated anyone who disagreed - including Twilight*, who had avoided any kind of confrontation with her the first time around - that's a rather understated description, to put it politely.
- Goaded, that is, not physically humiliated.
"from a past episode goes in over her head and gets corrupted would pretty naturally lead to a redemption and humbling at the end, especially on this kind of show."
My point wasn't that she was redeemed at all, but that the actual redemption was rushed and served little purpose but to whitewash a character who'd done little to nothing to earn said whitewash beforehand.
"The amulet being responsible for her becoming a tyrant was very obvious from literally the beginning, and the info that it was responsible came toward the middle of the episode, not at the very end. The entry acts as if this was a plot twist when it was not."
Actually, nothing prior to the revelation in the middle suggested she was being corrupted. Trixie wanted revenge and the power-giving amulet enabled her to get it. She's already been established as having no qualms about hurting others for her own ends. The episode could proceed more or less intact with the "corruption" and "redemption" pieces removed.
"Trixie did not at all act like an "innocent bystander victim", she admitted it was her fault for taking the amulet and asked for forgiveness."
The idea behind the scene was that Trixie was a decent pony who made a bad decision. At no point prior to this scene has she done anything decent to back that up. "Innocent bystander victim" was the wrong way to phrase it, granted, but the fact remains - and hopefully this was obvious from the rest of my sentence there - that Trixie was depicted as being more innocent than prior depictions of her character can justify.
"And how was Trixie ever an Alpha Bitch? I do not think that trope means what this entry thinks it means."
In the loose sense of trying to be Number One - the Alpha - and being a jerk - the Bitch. I was used to seeing the trope used loosely at the time, but if it has a stricter meaning, then I'll retract that part.
"The amulet's effects had to take a while after removal to fade, just as they gradually grew worse while it was on."
Ignoring the fact that this is your speculation, the red magic is shown to switch off seconds after she takes the amulet off but before the attack on Rainbow Dash.
""Sadist" means taking pleasure in pain, Trixie was just angry when shooting at Rainbow Dash with no hint of enjoyment."
Loose language on my part, granted, but the point remains that Trixie was still vicious and brutal without the amulet, which makes the redemption scene seem even more tacked on.
"And Agony Beam? Really?"
She says it was supposed to make Rainbow Dash writhe in agony. Did you watch the actual episode?
"Oh no, a show called "Friendship is Magic" dares to have antagonists become repentant and be forgiven by the protagonists! Horrible writing!"
I'm going to ignore the pointlessly malicious sarcasm and focus on the main point, which, in your haste to show how monstrously out-of-touch I am with the concept of friendship, you completely missed.
I didn't and don't have a problem with the general idea of villain-redemption. My issue was with the extremely clumsy way this particular one was executed. Having an antagonist behave with few if any redeeming features, and make no genuine amends beyond an easy last-minute apology, is not my idea of a good way to depict forgiveness. The fact remains that Trixie, even without the corrupting amulet, is still a self-centred bully, and she did nothing to actually make amends. She literally just asks for forgiveness, and that's it. That's cheap words, and not a good example of redemption at all.
If your opinion compels you to disagree, fine, but citing "does not understand the show because disagrees with execution of moral" as an excuse to remove a dissenting opinion is a pretty self-righteous thing to do (not to mention most fan disagreements are about the executions of certain morals, so I'm hardly unique in this respect).
"Beyond the factual errors, this blatant denial of what the show is solidifies why this entry makes no sense being on here."
The reasons you've given single out sloppy language at best, which I admit was a problem that needs addressing, and I'll happily add caveats that this is my opinion of that episode. But so much of your justification rests on presenting subjective opinion and disagreement as literal factual error that I consider it pretty meagre, especially when it's capped with such a preposterous (and vaguely fanboyish) accusation. Therefore, I'm returning my entry with a few tweaks.
Basically canon
Removed an unsigned entry.
- I agree completely and what's even worse to me is that I've seen this reformation done in a much better episode. The Gravity Falls episode Northwest Mansion Mystery where it involves a much more tolerable mean girl, her abuse much more subtle and foreshadowed in a previous episode, the abused wasn't solved in the end like Diamond Tiara's mother just back off because... she weak when her stands up to her? NO! Diamond Tiara has been nothing but a brat for five seasons and, as you said, it was all of her own volition. While Gravity Falls has only had two season and thus has the benefit of not having had Pacifica to be at Diamond Tiara's level of insufferableness. In the end, Pacifica's parents don't change their ways and most likely will go back to trying to train the daughter like what they want her to be, but with her at least trying to become a better person. Also, we've met Diamond Tiara's father and during the song where she's running back to the school it makes it seem like he was also in on the abuse as well as her mom. Once again, NO! We've met him in Family Appreciation Day and he's a pretty nice guy who seems to hold the Apple family, or at least Granny Smith, to high regard and respect for their Zap Apple Jam. At the end of that episode he actually punish Diamond Tiara by making her take part in the bunny hop when making the jam. That wasn't abuse or hurting her, that was him making Diamond Tiara apologize for making fun Granny Smith.
- Angel2002: And what does that tell does kids who have no self-esteem? Doesn't need to be spelled out.
Yes it need to be spelled out because otherwise, it's a Zero Context Example and violates the "Explain why it's a DMOS" rule.
- Arachnos: The whole movie was kind of a confused mess with plot lines that were built up and went nowhere, a Satellite Love Interest for no reason other than being obligatory, and an unthreatening walking Cliché Storm of a villain. It's quite frankly amazing how much Rainbow Rocks managed to improve on the first movie.
not a specific moment
- Fairfield: There is also the issue that her family, the original limits of the competition terms, really didn't win. Only by having her pals join the workforce did Applejack get ahead, and while Flim and Flam were stupid to let Applejack change the terms, Applejack didn't appear much better; the whole thing just seemed selfish of her. At the very least, this episode could have ended with the rather mature Aesop that business competition is good for everyone because it prompts all competitors to try harder, but with Flim and Flam leaving and the Apple Family's monopoly maintained, they will not have such an incentive to overproduce next season and likely be faced with the same shortages. Finally, why are you vilifying industrial consumerist capitalism in a show that wouldn't have existed without it?
I really fail to see how this is all a bad thing.
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To me this rant implies to me that when you make your show you are never allowed to merely question capitalism. It's like you're always supposed to agree to it and everything it does...
That shouldn't even be a rule. It's just whining about something not conforming to the social norms or something... Sure, the episode handled it really clumsily in my tastes, but good god, with people like these...
- "Over A Barrel"
- fierystage: The utterly blatant Politically Correct History, in allegorical form, of the entire episode. Depicting something that in reality was a millions-killing genocide as a simple misunderstanding that could have been reconciled with proper communication (not to mention that infamous pie fight!) is not just inaccurate, it's downright insulting and offensive. Not to mention the numerous Unfortunate Implications of depicting the buffalo as hostile and the settler ponies as wholesome and innocuous up until the end.
I removed this because it contains a real life example.
Edited by Ferigeras
I removed because it's unsigned.
"Do not remove an entry from the page nor create a Justifying Edit to defend a moment — it's an opinion."
Somehow I doubt randomly removing entries and ranting about them is a good idea given the recent edit history. I could be wrong though.
Edited by 70.54.89.57 Hide / Show Replies
Aye, I don't know why ading has been removing the entries.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Did so already.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The reason I felt I was justified in removing the two entries I did was that I felt both did not give any valid reasoning. In Griffon the Brush Off, the troper complained that Gilda was a complete jerk instead of a complete jerk, which doesn't make any sense to me. In the case of Luna Eclipsed, the troper gave no reason, except that they were "not ready" for Luna's characterization, but didn't give any reason why it was bad.
If these are not valid reasons for deletion, then I'm fine if someone re-adds them.
I'm a Troper!!!
We've a policy called Zero-Context Example that can be cited in such instances. The way you wrote the edit reason it suggested "I am removing this because I disagree with it" instead.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
This is ridiculous. Its basically whining due to taking the comedy WAY too seriously. I mean, really? The Lesson Zero section alone is basically petulant fan hating.
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Agreed. And aren't Dethroning Moment of Suck pages reserved for shows that have jumped the shark?
The subject of whether a show has jumped the shark is itself a subjective topic, so I wouldn't say that's 100% true.
Are you fucking serious? People got so pissed off over the littlest of things that this page was created? Seriously? Most of the complaints reach me as overreacting, I mean really, this isn't family guy or the simpsons ya'know.
No, you'll get banned for that. Take this matter to the Wiki Talk subforum instead.
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
marston says "Most of the complaints reach me as overreacting"
Does that mean you find some of the complaints fair or legitimate?
This page needs a purge and possibly a lock. No blanking, tough. Also, mind that Dethroning Moment of Suck is not about Jump the Shark, but about single problems.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
^^I kinda think that the complaints about the first two season-two episodes seem fair {This is coming from someone who likes those episodes BTW}, such as the ending being anti-climatic, or that it was diffrent from the other episodes, stuff like that. But every thing else seems to be overreacting, especially the Lesson zero entry, which from what I've seen, consit's of "Oh noes! the show is getting manly now! RUNIED FOREVER!".Not likeing an episode is one thing, bitching about it over dumb reasons is another. And that's not even getting into the mare do well entry.....
To be honest, I'm surprised that no one started whineing about both the dave polsky episodes {Feeling pinkie keen and over a barrel} on this page yet.
At the very least, the last 2 entries should be cut. the first is just petty complaining about an episode not meeting expectations, and the second one is blatant fanwankery to make an episode dark and offensive when it really isn't.
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
"^^I kinda think that the complaints about the first two season-two episodes seem fair {This is coming from someone who likes those episodes BTW}, such as the ending being anti-climatic, or that it was diffrent from the other episodes, stuff like that."
Okay, the anti-climatic ending, I can understand. But the complaint of the genre shift being fair? You serious? That was how season 1 started. I don't see what's so wrong with the creators wanting to do it again for season 2.
Edited by Rahkshi500
I mean, the complaints about the climax of Return of Harmony being rushed and the complaints about TMMDW are legitimate, but the rest strike me as whining.
I'm not saying that I agree with the return of harmony complaints. Just saying that some of them seem fair. Although now that I think about, the genre shift complaint is pretty stupid.
Can we PLEASE do something about the Heart Warming Eve entry?! Its petty complaining over ridiculously trivial things, and the poster deflects all criticisms with 'its just you WM Ging' and refusing to discuss it.
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
Oh, and his complaint about the princesses abscence makes no sense as the freaking episode description says the founding was before they were even born.
Can I please get some helo convincing fluffything the entry needs to go? He's spoiling what is supposed to be a happy christmas episode edit: Oh, its already gone. Thanks. =)
Edited by SomeNewGuy Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
We might consider sandboxing it so that it can be locked - no need for more negative examples.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
How the heck is complaining about a Genre Shift "pretty stupid?" The show consistently established itself as a mostly slice-of-life series with minor adventure elements, and all the sudden we have an episode where they're chosen ones fighting a mad god. Am I not allowed to be jarred by that?
Honestly this whole discussion basically amounts to "complaining is bad. People shouldn't be allowed to criticize what I like." Asking for a lock in this case is self-centered, childish and petty.
Edited by MoeDantes visit my blog!
Because that's how the entire series started, with the characters trying to stop a mad god as well. Faust herself stated that Luna was corrupted by a dark force, meaning that there are more villainous forces out there in Equestria. It's not jarring if the creators want to introduce another villain.
So what I'm hearing is that for some reason, because the pilot episode of FIM had magical girls and chaotic gods, its perfectly okay to bring them back whenever you want even when its clear the writers have spent a whole season abandoning that concept.
Pilot episodes often introduce stuff that is abandoned later in the series. The first draft of the Hobbit mentioned Fairies and China (the country), so by your logic if Tolkien's son wrote a sequel that had fairies and went to China it would be perfectly okay even though we've had a whole trilogy (and a rewrite of the original book) establishing that such things are no longer canon.
Yes the Elements of Harmony and the girls-battling-evil was the pilot, but by the end of the first season it had clearly been abandoned, and in fact had been contradicted up the rear end several times. For example, how can anyone still believe that Pinkie, Fluttershy and Rarity even belong on a force that fights evil gods? One's a divorced-from-reality space case, one's an abject coward with no strength to speak of, and one's got OCD and faulted priorities. Each time they succeeded in subdoing much of anyone, it was only because that someone was particularly vulnerable to whatever they had. In a more general situation, they'd be useless.
The whole "they represent the elements" thing is simply no longer true by the end of the first season either. By then, each Element is either so vague as to have lost meaning (how exactly is Fluttershy kinder than any other pony?) or else we've seen that the ponies attached don't quite live up to their element (Rarity has been shown to have a self-centered and jealous streak. She's generous to her best friends, but again that's normal for most of these characters), and in any case how the heck are they "Harmonious" when a lot of the episodes revolve around them having interpersonal conflict? You can't do this, then in the next episode say "Oh hey they're the Elements of Harmony!" That would be like having Sonic say chili dogs are his favorite food in one ep, then later on saying that he's allergic to them. Writers call this "an inconsistency."
Granted, now that season two has come and gone and the Elements are clearly here to stay this is all a moot point, but the point is that at the time the Return of Harmony was credibly jarring. And even if it wasn't a genre-shift, it was still simply a bad story, for reasons I've stated elsewhere.
Edited by MoeDantes visit my blog!
Only Three of these Dethroning are even legitimate complaints. Honestly it seems like Most people are completely freaking out over minor occurrences, over thinking every little plot point, and basically; just not having a sense of humor.
This isn't Family Guy, where they make fun of religion and insult people just because they can. These are barely opinions these are just rants disguised as entries. These people need to be slapped.
But Please, PLEASE. Delete this page, it's just more Brony Hate than actual complaints.
We have genuine grievances here. And yes, a lot of these are legit complaints.
Trekkie, Brony, Warsie, Whovian and many more.
I dunno, the complaints for Luna Eclipsed, at least, seem more like knee jerk interpretations of the episode rather than legit complaints. And then there's Novus Wolf's prententious inflammatory entry for Lesson Zero.
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
I feel for Luna Eclipsed at least, those interpretations are valid. Luna's initial arrival in the pilot and her redemption there were forgotten. Pinkie did act like a flankhole to her. The very existence of the holiday makes little sense to me...
Trekkie, Brony, Warsie, Whovian and many more.
This is a page built on personal opinion. Everything is valid if the person saying it says so (that is, unless they get objective facts wrong regarding the subject matter, and that's particularly easy to address).
You DO Realize that people spout invalid bullshit all the time, right?
Yes. And all of it has either been weeded out or fixed.
Now leave us alone. If you aren't going to contribute anything meaningful, then why are you even here?
I can say the same of everyone that has added to this section. According to you lot, most of Season 2 sucked and you're already picking on the third season. If this show enrages you all so much, then stop watching it. Honestly. It's a kid's show. An above average kid's show, but still a kid's show. Stop flying off the handle over every little lapse in logic and declaring it Ruined Forever every time something happens that you don't like.
Dude, we don't hate it.
If we hated it, we wouldn't care enough to post here.
I don't speak for everyone, but I certainly don't think the show was Ruined Forever, and I most certainly do not agree with everyone who has ever posted a thing.
Nobody here speaks for everybody here. That's sort of the point.
Oh, don't give me that line. If you didn't hate it, the vast majority of all the episodes wouldn't be posted here. You may as well make an entry for each and every episode and just declare the whole show sucks at this rate. If you guys here really liked this show, you'd be enjoying the show for what it is instead of obsessing over bits that you didn't like. Every entry into this horrible, wretched section is just brimming with bitterness. Everything in this page is either an overreaction to comedy or whining for the sake of whining.
"No one here speaks for everyone" might not be the point, but this page is ridiculous and the freedom to whine about whatever you don't like has been abused straight to hell. It's not the first time a page has been misused as such. I have yet to see any other work have such a high percentage of entries into this category. Hell, most of these are minor things, too. Just because you can complain doesn't always mean you should.
EDIT: Just counted. There is an entry for 26 episode episodes out of the current 54. Seriously, people? Seriously?
Edited by BewareTheWorlock
Why do I even bother with you?
Just because none of us think the show is above criticism, doesn't mean we're all one part of a massive, Yahtzee-shaped jigsaw puzzle made of happy horse hatred.
We each like the show. So do you.
We each have a part that we like less than the rest of the show. You don't, apparently.
That is where it stands. And if all you're going to do is give us grief for not adhering to the "true scotsman" fallacy, then I don't see any point in you being here.
I never said the show was above criticism, but I find it very, very, VERY difficult to believe that half the show warrants an entry in IT SUCKS. Really, if you're not as rage-filled towards certain aspects you as claim, then 26 out of 54 episodes have LOOONG, WHINING entries proclaiming them the Satan of cartoons?
No. I don't believe anyone who contributes to this page likes the show. In fact, the bronies over at the TV Tropes forums actively disown you all.
How does "having parts you like less than others" equate to half the show sucking?
I'll do my thing when this page is cleaned up and only legit criticisms remain. Allowing a shrill, whining page like this remain as it is reflects badly on bronies at large. If this page to be believed, then you're not grateful for most of the efforts the creators put into this show. There is no way that half the episodes in this show suck. It's just piles and piles of moaning and bitching over little things.
EDIT: Also, "We are also not a wiki for bashing things. Once again, we're about celebrating fiction, not showing off how snide and sarcastic we can be." Well, what this page is doing is going completely against TV Tropes's own mission statement and relentlessly bashing every imperfect aspect of the show.
Edited by BewareTheWorlock
We don't all think that "half the show" sucks.
Each of us thinks 1/54 of the show isn't as good as the other 98%.
And each of us is willing to respect that, even if we don't share one another's views.
And good luck getting yourself the position of judge—you just tore down an entire episode's worth of entries because the posters were "whiners."
What's with this "we" and "we're"? Am I to believe that you people just sit here all day long discussing how these episodes suck?
It doesn't matter if the entries are written by different people. The fact remains that this entire page is a huge wall of hate aimed at this series, collectively adding up to half of it! HALF OF IT! That's nuts! This page needs a trimming. None debatable.
Well, they were whiners! They were complaining about a very minor detail in a very good set of episodes!
And again, the bronies elsewhere on this very site ACTIVELY DISOWN YOU ALL. What have you to say to that. They treat this page as a place where all the rubbish goes off to "keep the forums clean" (their words, not mine).
Edited by BewareTheWorlock
You're not going to convince us (by which I mean the individuals who wrote the entries, myself included) you're in the right, because none of us have done anything wrong. We put our criticisms in a single place. A place specifically created to contain them.
Meanwhile, you've actively vandalized the page in protest of the ideas it expresses, which is quite clearly against the rules.
People in the wrong often don't recognize that they are, so that's no skin off my back.
Yawn. And meanwhile, you people have actively hated and bashed this show relentlessly over minor things (which, by the way, goes against what TV Tropes stands for). So again, it all comes back around to you guys.
I can see why the forum users want nothing to do with any of you. Also, why do you hang around here protecting your "precious" endless trashing of this show?
Edited by BewareTheWorlock
Because people like you have no qualms towards telling us we're wrong for not agreeing with you.
You're wrong becasue 26 out of 54 episodes have no business being listed here. Have you even read the shit on this page?
The fact that you stand guard over blatant hatred is a very sad statement about you.
Edited by BewareTheWorlock
Yes. They have their qualms, and they have their explanations.
Much like an AP lit test, the only wrong answers are the ones that aren't backed up, and I don't see any of that on the page.
And no, this isn't "blatant hatred," this is just a bunch of least favorites. Certainly nothing to go on a mighty crusade over.
I'd have to agree with Worlock here. It is a just blatant hating and I'm glad the admins finally locked it. It'd have gotten to the point where single episode was on here if they hadn't.
They locked it because people were breaking the rules regarding DMOS, not because they had any moral objection to this page.
These are explicitly stated to be opinions. The only wrong answers are ones that break the rules. You have to provide your answers, you have to sign your entries, you have pick ONE per series, and you have to describe an event in the series. Beyond that, you can do what you want.
I think that if this page will stay locked, we should just cut this page out with a spoon. It's a magnet for anti-brony Hate Dumb, so it's not a good idea to keep this around.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
That means they'd only take up space on DethroningMoment.Western Animation.
Wer're not haters, we're just individuals with a least favorite episode.
No. They're haters. Pure and simple.
Oh please. With the show having its own section, any entries on Western Animation will just get removed.
"No. They're haters. Pure and simple."
No, we just have complaints about some episodes of a show we enjoy. Picking out what we think is bad writing doesn't mean we hate the show: it simply means we don't agree with or like how a certain episode was written, either as a whole, or in certain places.
It's fine if you disagree with us, but frankly, your attempt to paint us as just bitching for the sake of bitching is insulting and a spit in the face.
No, you're just haters. Also "Bad Writing=/=Dethroning Moment of Suck". There should be a much tighter criteria on whether or not anything should be allowed on these pages, given the severity of the title "Dethroning Moment". A moment you simply don't like shouldn't warrant an entry. It shouls have to REALLY be something bad, and so far I haven't seen a single episode do anything that warrants this kind of bitching. Ever think you were the ones taking the show far too seriously? If you want to talk about bad writing, you can do that on the forums. That said, Beware The Worlock was right. Most of the show has no business being on here. Had you people been allowed to, every single episode would have been put on here.
YOU ARE just bitching for the sake of bitching! If you view my telling you that as a spit in the face, then so be it.
Also, it doesn't matter anymore. The page is locked. Everyone who hobbied against this waste of a page just got what they wished for.
Edited by Suland
<Mod Hat>
Enough.
You all have better and more productive things to do with your lives and time on this wiki than arguing over a kids' cartoon. I locked this page because it's one of the silliest things I've ever seen, and causes the most ridiculous wars. Stop arguing and calling each other names. If you're so unhappy, Take It To The Forums. Stop clattering the discussion pages.
</Mod Hat>
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
"*** Not to mention we're shown the bats pretty much completely kill any tree they feed off of, and can wipe out (at least) a dozen trees in a single night. Giving them an acre placates them for maybe a few days before they kill off all the trees in their 'part' of the orchard and return to attacking the rest of the orchard. So really, Fluttershy's plan does nothing to fix the problem and pretty much ensures Applejack's ruination."
Removed because the entry isn't signed.
- Spaghetti Boy: When you see Pinkie Pie rapping, and you're not viewing it in a fan made video, then you know that the Jaws theme is playing - and there are only a few ways the show can go.
Spaghetti Boy already wrote an entry for Magical Mystery Cure.
I take it from the vast majority of all the episodes being on here that you guys think that the vast majority of the whole show sucks, then.
Hide / Show Replies
Nope. It means that some tropers (well, nearly 100, on a quick count) have made entries. There is, or should be, only one entry per troper; each troper considers only part of the show to suck. That between them they've covered about 30 episodes doesn't matter and should not be taken to mean that the whole site somehow hates the whole show.
This is the avenue for complaining. The majority of pages about MLP:FIM are neutral in tone (as required for the main wiki) or positive. Some examples of the gushy ones are Awesome, Awesome Music, Funny, and Fandom Rejoicing. The Awesome page alone is much larger than this one; applying your logic, us guys surely therefore think the vast majority of the whole show rocks.
So it cuts both ways, and generalisations aren't appropriate.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
Fair enough. I was just reading through this page and couldn't help but find it odd that most of the show is on here. Something about that just doesn't ring right, but whatever.
It only proves that people are just really passionate about their ponies.
Oh God...not again. Other pages have shitloads of complaints, like Spongebob, Family Guy, Pokemon.....why do people always target this show to harp on?? Just because this show is popular, doesn't mean all episodes are gonna be perfect, and it definitely doesn't mean the show sucks. I really don't want this page locked again, just don't.
Edited by 216.99.32.45
MsCC93: Hey, it's fine; nothing has spilled over onto the main page and this discussion is not heated.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
I will say this...don't, some of these seem a little overreactionary? I think this page needs a good trimming and that there needs to be a higher standard of what should go on here, especially now that FIM has a Wall Banger page.
I don't agree. It's their opinion. If this page has to require higher standards, the other pages should too. Fans are acting way to oversensitive and can't handle other people's opinions. Nothing is wrong with this page (anymore, that is).
The show isn't perfect or Golden-Globe-worthy. It's a decent normal cartoon with no more or less faults than any other good ones out there.
Edited by 107.200.114.216
These moments got cut because of the "one moment per troper" rule:
- RHJunior: The misandry of Snips and Snails. The first two prominent male characters we're introduced to... and they're ugly, stupid, and have annoying voices. Their names are even a metaphor for what they're supposed to represent— they could've been named "Boys are stupid" and "Throw rocks at them" and it would have been about as subtle.
- RHJunior There's also the gender bias. Spike is casually mocked by his (all female) friends for his stereotypically feminine actions (tea set, frilly apron) and basically verbally emasculated. He goes to find his "inner dragon" (his masculinity) and hang out with a group of male teenage dragons, and engaging in all stereotypically male behavior (loud, rude, violent, crass and smelly.) He then learns his lesson— that his "proper place" is back with the girly pastel ponies. Because girls good, boys evil. Having just ONE female dragon in the group of juvenile delinquents would have avoided this....
Adding
- Iliketurtles: Pinkie Pie in "Filli Vanilli." In what was otherwise a great episode, Pinkie is flanderized at her absolute worst! She bullies Fluttershy about her insecurities enough to make her cry, and then acts like she didn't know better. She also beat Big Mac at the turkey calling contest and rubs it in his face when he can't sing because of it. The worst part was, she gets away with all this without so much as an apology to Fluttershy! I've hated some episodes of MLP, but this is the first time I was on the verge of quitting the fandom. No other show except for Spongebob has ever brought me to hate a character I used to like so much.
This is iliketurtles, and I want to ask: Can I delete my entry on Rainbow Falls, since I'd rather have this review posted than the other? Also, sorry for breaking the "one post per troper" rule. I forgot the rule existed.
Yes, that's fine. You can delete your own entries at any time.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
MsCC, I think you might want to remove the comment about Discord being "shoehorned in", since he's only been in two episodes thus far in season 4.
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes. Hide / Show Replies
Fine, I'll get to it later, but it's only in this particular episode that I felt he was unnecessary.
Knows-Many-Things
This section really screams to me that people get a little too passionate about this show. Hell, a lot of these complaints are built off pure exaggeration.
Find the Light in the Dark Hide / Show Replies
Contesting entries:
- "Magic Duel"
- Shmelluloid Studios: Something about this episode just didn't sit well with me. Not the episode as a whole mind you, I liked the idea of Trixie coming back and being a legit threat. But what ended up bothering me, was the ending, Twilight's solution to the whole problem. She's angry at Trixie for cheating, wants to defeat her in the name of honor and decency, and what does she do? She cheats to defeat her, using smoke and mirrors, special makeup effects and help from all her friends. And Trixie just suddenly decides to be good because Twilight cheated. Um... hooray?
It's not so much cheating as it's meant to provide some sort of irony. The last time Twilight beat Trixie, it was her own unicorn magic which was superior to Trixie's stage magic. Here, Twilight beat Trixie using well-planned stage magic because as long as Trixie had the amulet, her unicorn magic was superior to Twilight's, which is a stab at the fact that neither Twilight nor Trixie can really do those spells. Twilight even learned from Zecora about the right times to use her own magic, which was actually useless in this case, so Twilight knew that it'd take a different kind of magic to best Trixie which was of course friendship. In light of all this, Twilight really had no other alternative, considering how much evil the amulet had made Trixie out to be, so when you think about it, the method pulled by Twilight and her friends to get Trixie to come to her senses is actually justified.
- bregalad: I was really pissed off about how this episode treated Fluttershy. First, she's seen panicking when Twilight performs her magic trick, in spite of all the critters enjoying themselves - even though it's her special talent to be in tune with them. Then, she's completely ignored by her friends, showing absolutely no signs of assertivity. And when she's sent to the Everfree Forest, she behaves like a spineless coward, instead of being, y'know, shy. It feels that the writers sacrificed her entire character for some cheap laughs.
To be fair, Fluttershy really didn't even try to get her friends to listen to her, so it's more or less her own fault. Plus, when you think about it, Fluttershy is the least likely to get caught by Trixie, considering how Fluttershy is the quietest of the Mane 6.
Edited by 216.99.32.43
In uffish thought
Pulled:
- animefanboy67: stop blaming pinkie Rainbow was being just as bad as everyone was during this episode. So stop targetting poor innocent pinkie she didn't do anything it was mostly Rainbow dash and everyone else who mistreated Luna not pinkie. How can anyone forget that and hate on one character for it and not hate everyone else for being jerks. If I remember Twilight and Pinkie were the only ones trying to help Luna so you got it backwards everyone else mistreated Luna while only two of the mane six were nice to her.
No contesting entries or complaining about people not liking bits that you liked. If you wish to rewrite this into a proper moment, do so, without attacking other entries.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going. Hide / Show Replies
Well I would respect you better if you didn't attack characters who don't deserve it. I am just pointing out that everyone was being mean to poor little Luna. Not just pinkie who you wrongfully despise.
I can care less about people's feelings towards the characters. I just hate when others are attacked for voicing their opinions. =/...I thought I already discussed this.
In the Ponyville Confidential episode, I'd contest slightly how the town was ignoring how DT blackmailing them into doing the photos, because I'm pretty sure most, if not all the other ponies were ignorant of this detail.
Hide / Show Replies
To me, that fact makes the whole "town shunning the CMC" segment even more heartbreaking.
Should we add a rule that says "if you think the entire episode is DMOS, it doesn't really qualify as a DMOS... You can, however write a review about it"?
Hide / Show Replies
You're not going to convince us to rewrite the rules, especially given your stance on the page as a whole.
Actually, Psyga is right. Dethroning moments are just that...a moment, not an entire episode.
Well, to be fair, little moments go on the Wall Bangers page, while complaints about the plot goes here.
Edited by 216.99.32.45
- MetallicMaxilla: I admit that I kind-of-liked this episode the first time I saw it, but I did acknowledge the flaws. Unfortunately, it gets worse the more I think about it and it's by far the weakest season finale to date. My problems mostly lie with how it should have been a two-parter; there are ideas and concepts that I found interesting, but they simply weren't fleshed out enough for me to truly care. Even though I liked the musical format and the songs, they ate away too much of the episode and ultimately it came across as a predictable string of events that I feel were done far better in The Return of Harmony, Part 2. As for Twicorn... I don't really have a problem with a mid-series power-up, but my real problem is the fact that she's both an Alicorn and a princess. Just that point alone opens up so many questions. They already had Princess Cadance to cater to the toy-company-mandated "princess" crowd - couldn't they have let her have a stake in the events and give her the character development she desperately needs? My overall opinion on the episode is simply that it's a mediocre disappointment, with lots of missed opportunities and a plot that doesn't hold up what should be a massive status-quo-changer. It could have worked as a stand-alone episode without the Twicorn stuff at the end, but as it stands this is not a good introduction and it casts a shadow over the next season. I'm curious to see the upcoming two-part follow-up to this episode - my hopes aren't exactly high, but there is always a small chance that the problems of this episode will be addressed and might even improve it retroactively.
You only get one per work, and it's policy to remove the most recent.
Ok, lord knows I am not a fan of this page, but requesting a cut is pretty much a textbook overreaction.
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes. Hide / Show Replies
you saw it to, huh? I don't really get the whole "Most likely pushing some bronies away from the show." and how its meat be a good reason to cut this.
Its not immune just because it has a big fanbase otherwise we'd be purging all the Sonic and Fallout examples too.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
This is ridiculous. Those aren't good reasons to cut this page. There are legitimate grievances here. This show is not above criticism, nor should it be!
Trekkie, Brony, Warsie, Whovian and many more.
Well, there aren't. And those listed aren't either.
Trekkie, Brony, Warsie, Whovian and many more.
Hell if huge fanbases and such were a good reason to cut pages like this we'd nuke the entire frigging D Mo S page set.
I still don't get what makes this such a show where people run out of the woodwork and scream their head off just because we said something about a show that wasn't 100% praise and tribute. I mean I don't mind it but times liek this sour my opinion.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
C'mon, I like pages like this because they remind people that nothing in life is perfect. Now I admit its weird of me to be like that when I have a problem with fanboys going nuts over pages lik this but I wouldn't wanna see it gone or block it.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
What? I am a fan of this series and love this page. :/
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
Ah, sorry about that. Was a bit short sighted of me.
come to think I can admire people like Roy here. I like Tales Of The Abyss, I think its a great game. Do I have problems with it that I just don't like or can't justify? Oh hell yeah, same with King of Fighters or other things I like.
Edited by MightyKombat I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
"Then give me one good reason to cut this page."
Just a hint, by saying that you're saying your rationale for wanting it cut was not a good one. I also fail to understand your logic in calling for a cut.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
I don't know about you, but I may have come to the conclusion that they who post on the DMOS page for MLP: FIM are not backing up their claims too well.
One thing I always wanted to know was how people expected Don't Like? Don't Read! to be a valid reaction to criticism as it assumes the critic in question has some form of psychic ability like precognition and can tell in advance its gonna suck. Seriously, that is pretty damn short sighted.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
@Deadbeatloser22 Nevermind. Anyhow, I just wish MLP: FIM could just be immune to DMOS.
"Ah, sorry about that. Was a bit short sighted of me."
Oh no, I wasn't pointing at you (although I can't blame you), it was just speaking my opinion towards this "Most likely pushing some bronies away from the show." bit.
Then again, although I like this series, I hate when someone call me a brony, so...
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
Well, I've contributed to this page and love the show. I don't see how it's driving away fans. If that's the case, then delete all dethroning moment pages.
Trekkie, Brony, Warsie, Whovian and many more.
Oh okay. Sorry about that, Roy.
^ Exactly.
^^^ And exactly what do you mean by that?
Edited by MightyKombat I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
" Anyhow, I just wish MLP: FIM could just be immune to DMOS. "
No work is truly above reproach.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
"Anyhow, I just wish MLP: FIM could just be immune to DMOS."
Yeah, keep on wishing.
Hmm, I should take a time to make an entry here one of these days.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
@Deadbeatloser22 I don't think it's the DMOS entries I've de-debunked before, but rather the ones that I've done recently:
http://rkerekes13.deviantart.com/#/d5tqueh
http://rkerekes13.deviantart.com/#/d5tquxb
http://rkerekes13.deviantart.com/#/d5tqvcu
For the third one, I really fail to see how that episode takes away Spike's character development.
I wasn't aware telling someone to "get a grip" and yelling "SHUT UP!!!" at them consituted debunking.
Just sayin'.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
ICEBURN.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
What about "Get a life"?
Apparently we don't have lives if we write about moments we don't like from things but taking the time to "debunk" them is justified and necessary and not lacking a life.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
I guess I usually say those things out of anger or annoyance.
Again, I really don't see how Spike's so-called "character development" got destroyed.
that's a recurring thing I've seen these days where people do silly things and then say they were in a bad mood or were angry. Sometimes its understandable but other times people just use it as an excuse to get off lightly. Sorry if I seem a bit dickish here. Don't we have a trope for that?
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
That I can't really answer. I'll admit the guy who wrote that could elaborate.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
Well, thinking back, I really don't think Spike's character development was really destroyed in this season, considering that nopony has treated him like a sidekick much lately. Ever consider that?
I'm been looking over the page, and most of what I see are legit complaints I've seen from plenty of other people in other places, Mare Do Well for example. As much as I love the show, I can't deny that mistakes have been made on it, usually small mistakes, but mistakes none-the-less.
I swear does this page need to be locked again, or does this page need a lot of cleanup, because the majority of the fans just complain about characters doing menial deeds and not getting punished for it. Half of the deeds they do aren't even intentional, mean, or evil...now I see why the mods feel that Karma Houdini is misused.
Edited by MsCC93 Hide / Show Replies
I agree...I don't want this page to vanish, but watching these tropers argue over moments that conflict with their opinions get hella annoying.
Could we make the Wall Banger link more prominent to discourage minor moments? Thankfully there aren't currently (that I've seen) any justifying edits on the main page, but I'm afraid that to get actual moments which are technically properly explained off the page again would require a lot of PMs to convince the tropers who wrote them that they don't qualify.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
^^^^^^ I agree we should make it prominent.I think the problem is that the rules aren't enforced that much, because even after the page says "no justifying edits" or "don't remove an entry if you disagree," some tropes do it anyway...both the wall banger page & this one need to be carefully watched.
Was deleted, saving. While the part about Twilight screwing up the lives of her friends is overstated since she had no idea what the spell did, arguments about how it felt rushed can be acknowledged.
- "[1]"
- flufything: This episode is flawed in so many ways. Too many songs (At least "A Canterlot Wedding" had time to set up plot between songs), too rushed, no real conflict (Not only does Twilight instantly realize she is the one who caused the problems, but she manages to fix it within mere minutes with no effort). It really would've benefited from being a two-part season finale. However, that's not my main issue with it. No, the main problem I have with this episode is that Twilight Sparkle gets no commupance for her actions. Nothing. Twilight literally screwed-up the lives of her best friends by switching their cutie marks and made them miserable (and, in the case of Rainbow Dash, nearly got them killed), and she gets no punishment for it. Instead, she's made into a princess. Let me just say that I have no problem with Princess Twilight in general. It's a silly idea, yes, but it works in its own way. But, this? This is how they decide to turn her into an Alicorn? Yes, it was an accident. Yes, she did make things right in the end. But not once is she called out for her actions. Not once is she repriminded for using her magic so recklessly.
Really? She's calling out Twilight for it? Celestia was the one who sent her the destiny spell in the first place... Buuuut nah.
I'm putting it back up. It doesn't bear any of the obvious red flags, such as objectively incorrect details, and nothing i've heard in defense of this seems to completely invalidate it.
Well at the very least delete the whole "WHY WASN'T TWILIGHT PUNISHED" thing. She was acting under official orders from Celestia to research that spell, so she didn't "use her magic recklessly".
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
Yah. If anyone was being irresponsible here, it was Celestia, for putting everybody at risk with her exam instructions.
Yah. If anyone was being irresponsible here, it was Celestia, for putting everybody at risk with her exam instructions.
I will ask this: Would it be better if Celestia punished Twilight (with Alicorn powers, just to justify the reason why we need Alicorn) for what she did, despite her being the one that ordered it?
Y'know what, I'm just going to look the episode over and edit it when i'm done. I get the feeling there's information I'm missing. Not necessarily information that reflects you guys' opinions, but information nonetheless.
As it stands, that post stays, scapegoat and all.
UPDATE: All right, it seems there may not have been fair grounds on which to punish Twilight. However, that doesn't mean there wasn't guilt left unacknowledged. Editing to reflect.
Edited by InTheGallbladder
All right, here's the new post:
- fluffything: This episode is flawed in so many ways. Too many songs (At least "A Canterlot Wedding" had time to set up plot between songs), too rushed, no real conflict (Not only does Twilight instantly realize she is the one who caused the problems, but she manages to fix it within mere minutes with no effort). It really would've benefited from being a two-part season finale. However, that's not my main issue with it. No, the main problem I have with this episode is this: None of the parties responsible for the nearly life-ruining cutie mark swap face retribution. Celestia doesn't even show guilt. Let me just say that I have no problem with Princess Twilight in general. It's a silly idea, yes, but it works in its own way. But of all the routes they could have taken to Twilight Sparkle's coronation, this was in no way the best.
... Why the heck are you doing this? What point does this serve? Are you trying to stir up off-site drama, or something?
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
Nah, I think he's trying to convince you or another mod to cut this and Wallbangers, if his cutlisting of Wallbangers is concerned.
Edited by Psyga315
Note the word "de-debunked". It means I am either agreeing or disagreeing with these claims. Lately, though, it has been disagreeing, I'll admit. Just why do I get the feeling that some of the posters on these pages are just spoiled, whiny fanbrats?
Frankly, all this non-fan is getting from reading all this is that you're being the "whiny fanbrat" here.
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
Complaining abut parts of the show = Whiny fanbrat
But
Constantly debunking or dedebunking every sngle D Mo S or Wallbanger on this show, more often than not disagreeing to the point you get edit banned for it = Justified?
okay
this page is like a serious frigging hotbed
Edited by MightyKombat I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
You're not debunking. You're... whining. Primus forbid someone point out the flaws of the show.
Trekkie, Brony, Warsie, Whovian and many more.
Guys, my understanding is that he's been barred from this part of the website. Please lay off him.
Yeah I read about it. Ah well. Get what you pay for.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
In uffish thought
Dialga X, pick one of these only.
- Crystal Empire: King Sombra was really underwhelming. He was built up to be an epic villain... and he gets almost no screen time or lines.
- Mysterious Mare-Do-Well: The episode, plot-wise, was okay. Character-wise, awful. The other five were Out of Character. And the Accidental Aesop was really [[ Family-Unfriendly Aesop family unfriendly]].
True, I guess. I've restored the Mare Do Well one, added ten minutes before the other.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
In uffish thought
I don't know what to do about the following entry, under "Dragon Quest":
- batmany: The ending was the DMOS for me. To make a long story short, Spike "adopts" a baby phoenix (named "Peewee") after refusing to smash the egg said phoenix was in. Oh, did I say "adopt"? The correct term is "kidnap". I know this is supposed to parallel Spike beieng raised by ponies. But, there's one little problem with this. It's explicitly stated that no one knows where Spike came from (Which means either his parents are dead, or they abandoned him (most likely by accident)). Spike, on the other hand, knows who Peewee's parents are and could've easily given them their offspring back. Hey, Spike? I think you should return Peewee to his parents and write a letter to Celestia on why kidnapping is not a good lesson to teach the kids at home.
An edit by Caellach Tiger Eye says that "This one no longer qualifies, as a Season 3 episode "Just For Sidekicks" reveals that at some point, Spike brought Peewee back to his parents." This means the entry may be factually incorrect (and thus should be removed). However, since that wasn't clear at the time and it did appear to be kidnapping, at least to batmany, the entry may also still be valid.
For the time being, I've left it but converted the improper third-level bullet into a smaller note after the entry. I may remove the entry in a few days if no feedback is given here, so as not to fall afoul of the rule about not justifying entries.
Edited by Telcontar That was the amazing part. Things just keep going. Hide / Show Replies
I thought of that, but it appears that he hasn't edited for six months. Still worth a try, I suppose.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
I would say move to discussion, and make a note in the discussion and in the Reasons section that this was addressed in Just For Sidekicks.
Plus, there were a lot of extenuating circumstances on Spike's case. He had to travel several days by foot following a dragon migration, which would probably be over by then, to reach a relatively vague location, that would have been abandoned by its original inhabitants. Spike could have just as easily found a needle in a haystack, located in another city, that he only has a vague idea the directions to.
Alright, new topic.
In the topic below, I proposed this page be cut because too many people were Complaining About Complaining and this page could not serve its purpose properly. It has come to my attention that there are better solutions than that.
The people who say that this page complains about small things are right. I have a new proposal: Make WallBangers.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic dedicated to small complaints. We already have a similar setup for DethroningMoment.ICarly and WallBangers.ICarly.
This way, we can have a page dedicated to big complaints, and a page dedicated to smaller complaints.
As for both Dethroning Moment and Wall Banger, we could institute a rule that suspends anyone who makes factually incorrect statements or complains about complaining.
Edited by WaxingName Please help out our The History Of Video Games page. Hide / Show Replies
Thank you. That should clear up most of the problems with this page. I have no quarrel with Wall Banger pages, because those are just little complaints.
I'm glad we came to an agreement. I'll set up the page now.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
Not sure, I'll ask the mods.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
Let's not suspend them.
Getting facts wrong, that can easily get fixed.
No, I say suspend everyone who talks trash about this show without knowing what they're talking about.
I don't know about suspending the users who make factually incorrect statements. They could simply be not remembering the episode in question clearly, in which case getting their entry removed until they can fix the content of it should be punishment enough.
Accidental mistakes are forgivable, intentional ones are not.
I do think people should know what they are talking about before posting a DMOS. If you want to completely badmouth a show, well, prepare to have some damn good, genuine, reasons for doing so.
Factual errors should be rectified by P Ming the Troper and removing the moment. They then have a certain amount of time to fix it. If it is not fixed, then the troper should be suspended.
Outright badmouthing the show, however, without any genuine evidence should be grounds for automatic suspension.
Yes, that seems more reasonable. Give them a chance to fix it, and only suspend them if they won't.
Accidental mistakes are forgivable, intentional ones are not.
Following the unlock, I've added this notice to the page source. Feel free to alter it.
- %%
%% Any and all incidents of rule-breaking on this page may be reported due to problems in the past.
%%
%% Do not justify a moment that someone dislikes.
%% Do not contest a moment that someone adds.
%% Do not remove a moment because you disagree.
%%
%% Thank you.
%%
It restates the rules and makes it clear that the page is on a tight leash, but since some things can be solved by PM or this discussion page, reporting isn't a certainty for everything.
Edited by Telcontar That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
How come this page is still locked. It looks to me like you've cleared up the mess by adding the Wall Banger page.
Hide / Show Replies
I'll post here to request an unlock.
It's been unlocked. Remember to play nice, everyone.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
I really hope all of you who have posted on the MLP: FIM DMOS page are satisfied, for on my Deviantart account:
http://rkerekes13.deviantart.com/
I have created deviations declaring whether or not I actually agree with what y'all have had to say. For those of you who are hurt by this, I apologize, but I will NOT remove those deviations, and that's final.
Hide / Show Replies
http://rkerekes13.deviantart.com/#/d5ppvre
"Get a life"
You put a lot of time and effort into debunking personal opinions of a page we're not even allowed to edit any more.
I think you mean de-debunking. In other words, I am merely pointing out whether or not I actually agree with those entries. I hope you understand.
Just for the record, I didn't think that was the message they were TRYING to get across - I just think that's the way it CAME across. There is a difference, and I would clear it up if the page weren't locked.
Anyway, as we are required to explain why our entries count as a DMOS, there are several cases where you could explain why you disagree with people beyond simply rolling your eyes and saying it's wrong. I actually would be open to a debate on this topic, provided it could stay civil. As for taking offense, the reason people might be offended is because you're coupling statements like "no offense" with language that seems deliberately offensive and confrontational, such as "get a life," eye rolls, and frustrated sighs, which makes it seem as if you posted these "de-debunkings," as you call them, with the intention of hurting/offending/angering others.
This page needs to be cut
The very reason we have Dethroning Moment Of Suck pages in the first place is to vent our personal complaints as to which moment in an episode is the absolute worst. These moments can range from a specific moment in an episode, to something the just happens throughout the episode, to the episode itself. We have clear guidelines that even enforce that the complaints be heard and not be deleted.
However, this page could not effectively serve its purpose because several vocal bronies were trying their hardest to justify why these moments happen and why they don't suck, even if this page was for personal opinion. Those who wanted to still enforce the page's purpose had to work hard to get rid of justifying edits and restore deleted examples. When Beware The Worlock deleted the entries for "The Crystal Empire", that was the last straw. The page was locked so that free edits could not be made.
Of course, there was a proposed solution to just put down wanted edits on the "Edit requrest for a locked page" thread, but this is provides a lose-lose situation on many levels:
- Firstly, this solution was posted inside the discussion and not the page itself, so it's rather hidden from quite a few tropers.
- Second, many tropers are unwilling to make the effort to submit their desired edits onto the thread, and not without good reason, too. Asking the moderators to edit a page that's all about complaining is a huge embarrassment to both the requester and the moderators. The request will be turned down because the thread is meant to be used for more important things than just a petty complaint, and even if the moderators agreed to it they would be embarrased about having to put down a complaint about an innocuous girls' show.
Using that thread to make edit requests also makes the page unable to serve its purpose because the moderators would be unwilling to make those changes. The moderators could unlock this page, but it would just cause all of the edit wars that got the page locked in the first place.
The choice between locking it and unlocking it is a lose-lose situation since the page can't serve its purpose either way, so it will be best to simply cut this page, since it takes up unnecessary space if nothing can happen on it.
Edited by WaxingName Please help out our The History Of Video Games page. Hide / Show Replies
This page is a subpage of Dethroning Moment of Suck in the same way that there's DethroningMoment.Film. It was likely split off because the Western Animation subpage was getting too long and there were a lot of MLP entries. Moving it and the other work subpages back onto the main page would preserve the entries but add too much length, so nothing would be solved.
There are currently no Justifying Edits on the page nor anything else that breaks the rules, and as far as I can tell all deleted examples over time have been restored. The discussion page justification is unnecessary and irrelevant because examples won't get removed unless the writer thinks they don't fit, which is unlikely, and a mod has already stepped in to tell people to knock it off.
The Edit Request for a Locked Page thread is the default and an excellent solution; it is findable through a quick site search, Locked Pages, again here. I don't see any problem with slowing the rate at which entries are added, and perhaps if they are embarrassed about their complaint it isn't a very good one.
The moderators do not turn down edits in that thread unless they're wrong or similar; previous locked DMOS pages are edited by them as usual. If they are embarrassed about editing it for some reason, they don't show it.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
I don't think the current solution slows the rate, it outright stops it. It doesn't help that a link to that thread wasn't added to the main page itself so that its existence can be known. There haven't been any edits to the page since it was locked.
Also, earlier in this discussion, I proposed that if this page be deleted, a section for MLP should be forbidden from creation because it would get too long and it would suffer the same problems that got this page locked in the first place. I know this isn't a compromise, but it's a decision that has to be done because the other side is clearly unwilling to compromise.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
I don't want to see this page cut because I like Dethroning Moment of Suck pages myself and feel like we're letting the people who vandalized the page win.
I like DMoS pages, too, but it's clear that with the people trying to vandalize this page and locking it in response, there is no way to win on this issue but to delete the page.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
I'm going to be completely frank, that means the people who want this page gone win, and they did it by sabotaging the page and trying to censor the opposition.
I feel whatever stupidity that went on in the main page, the stupidity that went on trying to get rid of it was worse.
The only way I feel that this could be any sort of complete capitulation is that the people responsible for the sabotage get reprimanded in some official capacity, like a temporary banning.
Edited by Peteman
^Why didn't we do that instead of locking the page, then?
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
^Agree.
I do believe that the page should not go on the Permanent Red Link Club, yet instead clear it out and start again. Anybody trying to justify these moments on the DMOS pages should get banned without warning from the wiki until they prove they can adhere to the rules.
If it gets to be a problem again, then this page can be declared too terrible to keep and moved to the PRLC.
There are currently no justifications on the page, only entries which adhere to the rules. Because of this, I feel clearing out current moments isn't needed. Here's something I'm now thinking of; comments?
- Wait a little for things to simmer down. This could be a week or after the next episode is released, depending on the frequency.
- If someone wants to add an entry before then, they can ask for the edit through the thread linked above.
- After that, we call for the page to be unlocked.
- A large notice is added at the top (commented out with %%s so it's only visible to editors) about not justifying entries. If we get mod approval, this could include suspension as a consequence.
- We watch the page (I am very willing to curate it), clear out any new bullets that still go against the rules by justifying entries, and report the editor in Ask The Tropers.
- If after some time it's clear the notice is being ignored despite efforts, the page is cut and the Western Animation subpage has any MLP:FIM entries removed.
^That's an awesome course of action. I think things are simmered down as they are now, so I think it's safe to call to unlock it for now.
Edited by WaxingName Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
^^ I'd say that new plan sounds quite reasonable.
Just one little snag, though:
If you wait a week to let things simmer down, you'll be waiting until a week after the season finishes transmission because the show is transmitted weekly and every new episode will have someone who didn't like it.
Maybe make it three days to cool down after each new episode instead?
Accidental mistakes are forgivable, intentional ones are not.
I also suggest that we make a Wall Banger page for MLP too, since some of the people who want this page gone are right; a lot of the complaints are about very small things. I think a Wall Banger page would be a much better spot for those little complaints.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
Now that I think about it, why don't we just make the page a Temporary Red Link, until the series or season is over. It would be like a regular Red Link (locked page, nobody can edit, nothing on said page), but there would be a more definite timeline for reversal, unlike most pages on the PRLC, which are never recreated ever.
Now that I think about it, why don't we just make the page a Temporary Red Link, until the series or season is over. It would be like a regular Red Link (locked page, nobody can edit, nothing on said page), but there would be a more definite timeline for reversal, unlike most pages on the PRLC, which are never recreated ever.
You guys actually like this page? Why? It's just a bunch of overblown complaining, many of them about very small things. As it stands, almost half the series has an entry on this page, and that's just not right. I have no doubt that EVERY episode of Season 3 so far would have an entry by now with it unlocked.
Edited by Suland
Suland: Yes, we do like it. It may be complaining, but it's interesting complaining. Reading why people didn't like the bad episodes can be more satisfying than the episodes themselves.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that this page makes a good reference for Fan Fiction authors to help them avoid the most Egregious mistakes made by the show's writers.
Accidental mistakes are forgivable, intentional ones are not.
Suland: I oppose people trying to lock down a page that is specifically designed for complaining. You don't like your favorite show being bashed? Don't come here.
Yeah, it's complaining. Yeah, a lot of it is overblown. But it's the place that lets us do so, so we do it. I can get offended by some of these complaints too, but as long as they do so within the rules established, they are perfectly acceptable within the context of the page.
Now, I remember hearing about people making new accounts just so they could add to this page, and that is a load of crap. But when people post minor, insubstantial complaints that nonetheless happen in the show? Well, I suck it up.
Roxor: Wow, how pretentious do you have to be to claim that you're better at writing about a children's cartoon then people who are paid to write said children's cartoon?
Frankly, I'm of the opinion that any sort of "mistake" the writers make for this show, or any work for that matter, will be completely eclipsed by anything the fandom comes up with. I mean, look at Cupcakes for heaven's sake.
It's good to hear people's opinion on things, but going as far to claim that you apparently know better then the professionals is extremely arrogant.
Edited by PDL
Roxor: Wow. Just wow. The arrogance in your post is mind-blowing. First of all, none of the episodes of this series are out and out bad. This is an all around good show. Any flaws are so overshadowed by the good things in it that I don't even understand why you people spend so much time obsessing over what you don't like about it. And no, enjoying a fun show is far more satisfying that complaining about said show's flaws. The fact that you said these entries are better than the show, itself, speaks volumes about how little you must like the actual series. Seriously, why are you even here if you apparently have such a low opinion of the series and its creators?
If you honestly think that every episode with an entry is bad just because some troper got their panties in a twist over something they didn't like and put an entry, then I'm afraid you are either a very easily swayed person or you WANT to see the flaws instead of the shine.
Oh please, fanfic authors are rank amateurs, at best. They make far more mistakes than professional writers do. The writers of this show are PROFESSIONALS and do a far better job handling the content than any fanfic writer ever would. This page serves absolutely no purpose in creating good fanfiction. The actual writers never created Cupcakes, Sweet Apple Massacre, or Pattycakes. The worse things about FIM all come from the fandom. And Roxor, you and your precious fanfic writers DON'T know better than the creators of this show and you never will.
Peteman: yeah, ignoring the problem isn't how you deal with it. No. Most of these overblown complaints have no place being here and should instead go on a Wall Banger page. As far as I'm concerned, this entire page is a travesty. As it stands, most of the episodes are on here, painting an image that the bronies who use the Dethroning Moments page don't even like the show.
PDL: I concur. If this is the attitude of the typical user of the Dethroning pages, then this page should stay locked.
Edited by Suland
Suland:
I think you misunderstand something: we don't find the entire episode bad. We find (for the most part) individual pieces of the episode bad. That's what a Dethroning Moment Of Suck is. A personal moment of nadir that brings down the series in general for an individual viewer. But the way your statements seem, it's like we hate all aspects of everything of that episode when we make an entry. For the most part, we don't.
And I hate locking DMOS pages in general. I feel it's censorship and I don't see why this series should get special treatment over any other series. If people want to gripe, this is the page to do it in. It's kept contained, and we don't spread our dissatisfaction to anywhere else on the site. But now you and the others censor this page, painting a differently bad image of bronies who take this show way too seriously and treat it as utterly above criticism. It isn't. While overall good, it has problems. And this is the place for an individual troper's worst.
If this show can't take a few whiners on a page dedicated to whining, then how can it survive?
It's not about this series getting special treatment. It's about the sheer number of entries getting ridiculous. I will repeat again: HALF of the episodes have an entry! That's bullocks.
And as for your "we don't find the entire episode bad". Well, Roxor sure had a different take on this, didn't he! I'm sorry, but the general air and treatment of the show DOES paint the picture that you guys hate it. The fact that you spend so much time here on a page dedicated to hating on it also paints that picture. Some of the complaints are just...what? A Dethroning Moment needs to be the worse of the worse, and for the most part, this series lacks the worse of the worse. It's honestly like you guys are intentionally looking for things to put on here.
This show can take a few whiners, but the picture this page paints of bronies isn't a good one. The picture it paints is that bronies are a nitpicky bunch that will whine and complain about every little detail they don't like, no matter how inconsequential it is.
It's not about this series getting special treatment. It's about the sheer number of entries getting ridiculous. I will repeat again: HALF of the episodes have an entry!
... So what? Different people have different moments in a given episode that they consider to be the least enjoyable. What's the big deal?
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
The problem is that people are letting themselves get WAY too picky and are instead obsessing over perceived flaws instead of enjoying the show. That's the deal.
Don't paint us all with the same brush. I'm far more defending DMOS pages in general, than this specific page. But because this page keeps coming up due to people who can't accept criticism of the show trying to ruin it for others. Doesn't that paint a bad picture of the fandom too? That it can't accept a page dedicated to dislike? That it needs to stamp out criticisms, even stupid ones?
I'm pretty sure most of the entries that are objectionable are people who see the show, enter a single entry in DMOS, and never come back. And yes, that is an abuse, but so is butchering the page.
@moderators: Can we get a crowner on this? Unlock the page, permanent red link the page, reset the page, or something else? As it stands, I don't think a discussion is going to help since a lot of us have fundamentally different positions on this.
Maybe if the criticism are more justified, you wouldn't keep having these problems. Dedicating a page to dislike is never a good idea to begin with.
Suland, why can't you just leave these people alone to have their page? It's not hurting you.
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Suland:
Then why don't you complain about other DMOS pages? Or the Wallbanger pages? That's what those pages are about: dislike. FIM is not getting any special treatment beyond the obsession it promotes in its watchers.
And the reason we have these problems is because of people like you! This page was locked because guys like Beware The Worlock and Herok1ller didn't like this page and decided to sabotage it, and here you are championing these rule breakers. If anything, we wouldn't have these problems if we banned the people breaking the rules.
I have patrolled these entries and have pulled ones with legitimate factual problems (and I think some . The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000 complained about how the entire town was recruited by the Apple Clan when it was just an extra 5 ponies, creating at least a 2 order of magnitude difference between the complaint and the reality. I've encouraged the pulling of one of the Canterlot Wedding complaints since it understated the contributions of the Mane Cast and overstated the contributions of Shining Armor. But I tried to keep it civil.
Edited by Peteman
Given the reaction to my post, maybe I chose my words poorly? Or maybe the user I was replying to was just overly-sensitive.
Firstly, regarding the show: I love Season 1. Especially the pilot. I just don't like most of season 2.
Back to the topic of the actual page: TV Tropes is all about analysing fiction, and the DMOS pages are specifically about analysing what is perceived to be the negative points in otherwise loved works and explaining what about those specific points the editor didn't like.
I like reading these criticisms. They cast new lights on even good episodes, and it's actually rather hard to find criticism this informative.
It would be a sad thing to see this page cut, but if it's not going to be open for editing, then there's no point in keeping it, so hurry up and put it out of its misery.
Also, in the interests of fairness, cutting this page would also mean cutting the rest of the DMOS pages and making Dethroning Moment Of Suck an example-less page. We can't very well say "No examples from <insert show here>", now, can we?
Accidental mistakes are forgivable, intentional ones are not.
And you are just one person, Roxor. The only error here I see is that you kept watching long after losing interest. So what if they took the series in a direction you don't like? That doesn't justify saying that fanfic writers do it better and that these pages are better at defining and discussing the show than its own creators.
That does not objectively make Season 2 terrible by any stretch of the imagination.
Actually, TV Tropes is about celebrating fiction. It says so on the main page.
The entries never cast new light on anything for me. Imformative? Hardly.
No, Peteman. The reasons you have these problems is because most of these complaints are bullocks put in by people way too picky and sensitive to what they're seeing on a children's show. I intend to complain about other Dethroning Moments pages as soon as this one has gotten rid of all the unnecessary complaints about minor things.
Edited by Suland
Suland, TV Tropes has these pages set aside so that we may complain. The site overlords gave us these pages to whine, so we do. And if someone wants to use their one absolute nadir moment on something others consider trivial, that is their problem. Unless they are breaking the rules, that is their right. You and the others should not deny us our right to complain. But the anti-DMOS people have done so and they have done so by breaking the rules.
I personally could go for a reset. If the complainers are so adamant in voicing their complaints, they can come back. But I'd rather not have interference.
Fine. Carry on and yell and howl and gnash your teeth about how much this show sucks, then! You people better not scare not curious new viewers, though! If I catch even a hint that this page was a factor in turning someone off of the series, I will be back. If that time comes, I WILL do everything in my power to see this page erased.
Edited by Suland
And what happens if it's your attitude that turns people off? The idea that this fandom is so sensitive that it cannot tolerate criticism on a page dedicated to criticism? Acting as though the DMOS page has the ability to sway minds instead of being a place to vent?
What will you do then?
I don't turn people off. The only thing I do is be open about my fandom and recommend it to anyone interested and then I drop the matter. The only one who should be asked that question is you people. My promise still stands.
Suland: I didn't say season 2 was objectively bad. You're trying to put words in my mouth, and you're missing the point of the whole Darth Wiki. Darth Wiki is for celebrating the cynical side of things. That's what we're doing here when we criticise parts of works we like. We're still celebrating the work - in a cynical way. After all, if someone is writing an entry about a particular episode, they'd have to at least have watched the show up to the point they were criticising.
Think the entries don't cast new lights on episodes? I like Luna Eclipsed, but reading the criticisms of it on here made me aware of flaws I hadn't noticed before, and yes, I can see just what the editors meant when I go back and watch the episode in analytical mode. They're good points, but I still think the episode is good, even if the editors who left those entries don't.
Don't believe me that the entries are informative? I hated Lesson Zero from when I first watched it, but I had a lot of trouble figuring out why. The editors here managed to do what I couldn't and explain just what was wrong, and for that, I thank them.
Accidental mistakes are forgivable, intentional ones are not.
Enjoying something cynically involves light-heartedly chiding it like in Warp That Aesop. This is full on bashing.
No, the entries don't cast a new light on the episodes. They have NEVER made me look at them any differently or made me notice something I didn't before, because I don't need a bunch of whiners to inform me about a children's show that I watch. They're good points, to you. Oh, and there is NOTHING wrong with Lesson Zero. You just took it too seriously. In fact, I'd call the problem with everyone who has contributed to this page: "You took it too seriously."
This is why I struggle with identifying myself as a brony. It seems every single new episode turns into some kind of frelling ordeal because it didn't do EXACTLY what some spoiled-rotten brony wanted to it and then they raise hell for everyone else. I finally just freaking left Equestria Forums because I got tired of there being some outburst from half the users and everyone getting up in arms over whether or not the series was Ruined Forever each and every time a damn new episode aired! I got tired of actually sighing in resignation at the horrors I'd find there every time a new episode came out. I have NEVER seen a fandom this insecure and fussy and JUST PLAIN PICKY in my all life! Every damn episode has to be just perfect or it brings the whole series down to you people! You'd think that this was a Tolkien adaptation by how touchy and picky about every tiny little detail you people get. It's not. It's a show for 12 year olds. Learn to relax and just enjoy it for it is, instead of obsessing over how much you hate some aspect of it.
It's a good show, but it is also merely an above average kid's show. Stop holding it on the same levels you'd put something like War and Peace on. Rant over.
Edited by Suland
Well that went pear-shaped fast.
The way I'm seeing it, a large part of these complaints would belong more in Wall Banger than here. This page would be for moments that, in retrospective, mark a low point in the entire show. Wall bangers are for moments that are simply stupid. And that a good part of what I see on the page: Moments that are pretty dumb, but in no way marking the lowest point of the entire series.
I feel that should be cleared up.
Oh, the thread? Don't worry, it's just dead.
Alright, how's about this for a solution: reset the page, create a Wall Banger page, and give a reminder to the tropers that this is meant for the absolute lowest personal moment for the series, and that if it isn't truly one's personal worst, then put it in Wall Banger. I can't move DMOS entries into Wall Banger instead of copying them because some point I find merely asinine if not bordering of fanon can truly be a series low point for someone.
My biggest concern is that this then gets this frustrating discussion dragged to the Wall Banger page instead.
Heads up, if y'all still wanna post, revise or something like that there's a thread where you can request edits for this (among others) here:
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=gsjp7dldjh2dwdelcha2hu17
Make sure to give your request out in detail, though, and keep the rules in mind so we don't have to do it for ya.
Personally, I think if this is going to be locked, it should be cut instead, because some people may spam that thread when space is needed for more important things. And this page is a Natter magnet, anyway (the brony Vocal Minority sure likes Natter.)
Edited by WaxingName Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
We put this here because it would take up too much space in Western Animation. If we took this down, we'd have to move it all back there.
Then just delete the whole page and its contents outright, and forbid anyone from creating a section in Western Animation. Even if it was put there, it would still suffer the same problems that got this page locked in the first place.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
You're asking one side to compromise because the other side won't.
That's not a compromise at all.
Who honestly cares? None of these episodes deserve to be on here anyway.
We don't hate the episodes, we hate specific sections of the episodes.
This is a Dethroning Moment page. A Dethroning Moment can range from a specific part of an episode to something that happens throughout an episode, to the episode itself. I think I'm going to make a new topic to show why I think this page should be cut.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
You know, it's funny how hardly anyone who adds an entry to this page ever talks over it in the main thread.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel. Hide / Show Replies
I think it's because they know that their opinions won't be agreed with, because only Mayor Do Well is genuinely disliked on the forums, and even then it's more "not up to standards" rather than "absolutely hated".
Have you seen how shouty-downy and Sacred Cow-ish this discussion gets? I can see why not.
The main thread has even more diehard fans patrolling it.
Anybody with a gripe would be had for breakfast.
Actually, no. I've seen plenty of people give complaints and have their qualms answered politely. Stop making the portions of the fanbase that can actually accept the show gracefully like the bad guys. Your pathetic attempt at stereotyping the forum users was hilarious, though.
Edited by Suland
I'll bet you're all real sore that you can't add "One Bad Apple" right about now. Heheh.
Hide / Show Replies
I have a feeling that a lot of the entries about "One Bad Seed" would basically amount to people who were bullied crying for Babs's blood. I will admit that a few moments out of the episode do have a way of striking a little too close to home in some ways.
And since no one's gone to the extra trouble of doing it, I doubt it'll even happen.
Criminey! Why are 17 out of 26 episodes of Season 2 on here?!
Hide / Show Replies
I'm surprised it's not all 26. Haters gonna hate and all that.
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
I'm amazed it's not every single episode that's been released so far!
The Page is locked, but the Locked Pages article does not have any explaination why this page is locked.
Edited by flamemario12 Hide / Show Replies
Serves this page right. It was just a just of BAAAAWWWWWW'ing, anyway.
Edited by salong
I find that statement hypocritical given what's on the discussion page.
Edited by Peteman
This may just be me. But does anyone else see how strange this is? The dethroning Moments for cartoons that all have separate pages are all really controversial shows, like Family Guy and Simpsons.....and then My little Pony is there.
Does no one else see how out of place Ponies are in this area, this section should not be this large. Please Respond.
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No, they just happen to have a lot of examples. Controversy is coincidence.
Just because you like something doesn't mean it's closed to criticism.
No exceptions.
There's a big difference between "being closed to criticism" and "whining over little things". This page needs to be locked and pruned.
The latest entry is factually false. It claims that Shining Armor alone did all the work to stop the Changelings, when in reality the Mane Six and Cadance all contributed. Yeah, the Unfortunate Implications accusation has fallen flat on its face.
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Well, only Twilight contributed by freeing Cadance, and Cadance contributed to the whole love gives you strength bit, but the shield thing was Shiny's doing, even if he had to have help from Cadance (Twilight didn't really help in that, would have been awesome if she did)
Edited by Psyga315
"** Solidus Trigger: God I hated the wedding. The Mane 6 accomplished nothing, the Royal Guard went down like losers, Celestia was a retarded wuss, and Luna slept through a fucking enemy invasion. The established characters got fucked over to glorify a surfer, a generic pretty pink princess, and a third-rate Disney villain."
Where, oh where do I begin with this? First of all, the Mane 6 took out half the Changeling forces, hardly what I'd call "nothing". Secondly, the bit about Celestia is both exaggerated and unnecessarily rude. Thirdly, the Royal Guard has been established since the pilot as a Redshirt Army. Fourthly, complaining about Luna only having a cameo is nitpicking. Finally, the complaints about the new characters are just plain untrue and outrageous. (Shining Armor is a surfer? Really?
Edited by SomeNewGuy Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes. Hide / Show Replies
Well okay, maybe the Mane 6/Royal Guard thing is overexaggerating, but come on. Celestia finally gets a fight scene and it's really lackluster, Luna is nowhere to be found when she ought to be protecting her subjects from horrible bug-creatures, and the new characters were dull. SA and Cadence are basically straight from a fanfic (TWILIGHT'S BROTHER OUT OF NOWHERE AND THE AMAZING PURE OF HEART PRINCESS), and Chrysalis is more obnoxious and annoying than she is menacing.
Hmm...ok, how about this.
"**Solidus Trigger: The wedding just left a bad taste in my mouth. We finally get to see Celestia in action, and she goes down almost effortlessly. Shining Armor and Cadence in general felt like characters out of a Self-Insert Fic, and Chrysalis came off as more of an annoyance than a menacing villain. Also, Luna's cameo just screams "Wasted Potential"."
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Okay, that's fine. I guess I did come across as pretty crazy in my first post. Sorry about that.
No problem. Glad I was able to help.
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Why have you turned into a sheep?
I cut up one dozen new men and you will die somewhat, again and again.
The Neutral One
I think the problem here is these entries are submitted by people who are very bitter about that particular moment, which can easily end up making the entry one-sided and even biased.
Another problem is that this wiki's loose, casual approach doesn't seem to work so well when describing things negatively, as that can make the entries sound quite insulting to people who like the episode.
I'd suggest that we have multiple people work on these entries so they are presented more fairly. Additionally, I think these entries should be written in a more polite manner compared to the other sections of this wiki, as half the problem with these pages is that they tend to be written like this moment ruined the show forever.
Edited by MJTrooper Personally, I'd prefer if the 'net was a little friendlier, but you know the GIFT... Hide / Show Replies
Upon reading some of the guidelines, these entries are starting to sound like they should be a Troper Tales entry, given the personal nature they have and the fact that you aren't allowed to contest them.
Personally, I'd prefer if the 'net was a little friendlier, but you know the GIFT...
I think I agree with you. It's probably just me, and I'm probably biased since I do like the show, it just seems like when a new entry for an episode pops up, the troper who wrote it is right and everyone that liked the episode is in the wrong.
Because it's their opinion. Of course they (and we) will defend their right to give their opinion.
Especially when we feel we have to.
But everyone has a right to voice theirs.
Edited by InTheGallbladder
Really? Accusations of racism? Are you freaking kidding me?
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Again, opinion is opinion.
And here, opinion is king.
And, for all we know, they were calling out the Fantastic Racism as a sign of bad writing.
Such as "nobody has the right to say anything bad about anything I enjoy"?
Edited by InTheGallbladder
The Last Roundup entry, I have to link to this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHZad3_8sJo
How many other shows have done something like that, and as for the rest of the episode? I didn't think it was that bad, again, are you serious bro?!
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The entry itself makes no sense.
First off, how is Derpy attacking the mentally challenged? Fans protray her like this all the time, plus her actions are your standard "goofy klutz" type of character, kinda like Goofy from Goof Troop or A Goofy Movie.
And where is this Character Derailment? I guess Pinkie's freakout about breaking a Pinkie Promise (kinda unnatural for a pony who represents Laughter) but then again fun stuff like that could be considered Serious Business to a fun loving pony like her.
Not only that, but I didn't see no one complaining about her dropping the stuff on Twilight in the Pinkie Keen episode either.
Now I think this other video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8a4ZAXeWJY pretty much sums up my thoughts on Derpy, and no, it's not the Zack Ryder video. I mean, come on now guys.
You know, in light of all this, I think its now safe to remove it for falsehood.
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People... It's opinion.
My issue, as stated, was that Applejack acted completely immature and everyone else was completely obnoxious toward her. By the fifteen-minute mark, I was wondering why she hadn't ditched them, after it, vice versa. I'm putting it back up.
Well, my main gripe was towards the people complaining about Derpy being offensive towards handicap people more then anything else.
To the people who are offended by Derpy allegedly being an offensive stereotype of mentally handicapped people...
You do realize that Amy Keating Rogers, the writer of the episode, has a son that's handicapped, don't you?
That's irrelevant.
What matters here is opinion. And while I don't agree, I can understand why people would cry foul over the first (and only) major scene of a slurred-voiced, cross-eyed character being one in which she absentmindedly causes massive property damage and causes a member of the main cast trouble before getting yelled at.
Irrelevant or not, it's still pretty damn stupid.
No one has said anything about the likes of Patrick Star, Ed or such, but no, this happens, shit explodes and ugh, just ugh.
Well, Ed's a space-case and Patrick's simply a moron. Neither of them invoked any obvious stereotypes.
And besides, remember, opinion's just that. You have yours, let others have theirs. They don't have to agree with you.
While that maybe the case, those of us who are not complaining still have to put up with the crap from those who do. Thankfully Hasbro is ignoring the moronic complaints and Derpy is still appearing in her Where's Waldoish deals.
ONCE AGAIN!! Just because your it's an opinion doesn't mean it's ok to be just plain anal about it.
So...we've got a complaint about a moment of Applejack acting out of desperation as Character Derailment, and the brony-baiting comment was uncalled for.
Yeah...I'm getting the feeling this page needs to be locked before the complaining gets even more out of hand.
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susie.
I just read the entry that said that Rainbow Dash had the right to expect Fluttershy to go to the dragon migration, since Rainbow went to the butterfly migration with her. I would like to point out that butterflies, while boring, don't absolutely terrify Rainbow Dash. Fluttershy, on the other hand, is genuinely dragon-phobic, and can't even look at them without feeling scared (unless they're Spike or are threatening her friends).
I think it's reasonable of Fluttershy to not want her friend to drag her off to see what is literally her worst fear.
I've been here too long. Regretting choosing this screenname ten years ago.
Decided, the heck with it.
- Fairfield: There is also the issue that her family, the original limits of the competition terms, really didn't win. Only by dragging the rest of the town onto her side did Applejack get ahead, and while Flim and Flam were stupid to let Applejack change the terms, Applejack was worse; selfishly recruiting the whole town for labor intensification and putting the rest of the economy on hold just so she could produce a luxury. At the very least, this episode could have ended with the rather mature Aesop that business competition is good for everyone because it prompts all competitors to try harder, but with Flim and Flam leaving and the Apple Family's monopoly maintained, they will not have such an incentive to overproduce next season and likely be faced with the same shortages. Finally, why are you vilifying industrial consumerist capitalism in a show that wouldn't have existed without it?
They didn't recruit the whole town, merely an extra 5 ponies (though much of the town watched the competition, no one was obligated to attend, nor were they doing anything except standing there). Granted, the way the competition played out does undercut the message, but the way this is worded overstates the number of people dragged into the competition after the original terms had been set by a couple of orders of magnitude.
DARTHYAN
One thing I'm a bit confused about is why people were acting like Pinky was a creator's pet who didn't go through real trouble in a friend in Deed. She ultimately does realize that being super happy and out going isn't going to win over everyone, and that you should be more willing to respect how they want to do things (Cranky states that the reason he considers her her friend is because she went out of his way to help him, and before the incident with the scrapbook he actually was starting to slightly open up to her). What's more she does realize that she was being insensitive and ultimately does honor Cranky and Matilda's wish to be left alone when asked. Compared to how she usually is it is kind of a step in the right direction.
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Something stupid was said here, so I've edited it out. Nothing to see here, move along.
Edited by Kubu
On the one hand, there's supposed to be no contesting entries, but on the other, the entries are supposed to describe events in the show. The one for the season 2 finale by Gal Hun Gara Kai complains about how Shining Armor drove off the horde by himself, which he didn't, but Princess Cadance came out of nowhere just as much as he did.
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Crap, didn't notice someone had already mentioned this. I would've simply added on to this instead of making my own discussion entry.
Oh well, the point still stands, and you are allowed to contest entries if they're factually false.
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^Yes, but not with a Justifying Edit.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ok.
So...since we've shown that its factually untrue, can the entry be removed?
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^Pull it to discussion here so that you won't be accused of vandalism.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Done.
- Gal Hun Gara Kai: The resolution of the season 2 finale as a whole. Twilight Sparkle and her friends being set up as a cast of diverse defined strong independent female characters and excellent rolemodels for the girls (at least that was the clear intention), only to have the finale take all that away, by having a male character be introduced out of nowhere, to solve all the problems single handedly, and defeat a villain even Princess Frickin' Celestia couldn't handle. The series had it's own bad moments before but this is outright offensive.
One little quibble about the Dog and Pony Show complaint. The Diamond Dogs didn't start blocking the tunnels until after the rest of the Mane Six tried to go through them, so that part of the complaint is kinda moot.
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I'm not going to change someone else's entry beyond fixing misused tropes, but can I point out that in the Super Speedy Cider Breezy, Applejack didn't get the whole town helping her in the contest, merely another 5 ponies.
I R Anon!
Not sure if bad editing....or very blatant sabotaging, but someone ****ed up the perfectly fine Putting your hoof down entry merging the two complaints into one. (Which were two different things that makes no sense combined) Not to mention doing a very poor job of respelling most of some (read: MINE) words, but someone please fix that.
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I fixed it. My guess is it's a vandal. He tore his way through a bunch of DMOS pages two days back, before the higher-ups shut him down.
TV Tropes' Sonic WikiCurator
Hm, why do I get the feeling that this page was added to the Cut List because of people Complaining About People Not Liking the Show?
Edited by Komodin Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows. Hide / Show Replies
Because it is a complaining page and people don't know that these are supposed to be left alone (unlike other complaint pages, which are to go to the waste bin)
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ah and it has 170 inbounds. A wee bit too much for my taste.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
There is no reason for this page to be cut while the others stay open. Just because the show is popular on the Internet does not exempt it from having a Dethroning Moment of Suck page. Of course there's complaining, just look at all the other DMoS/Wallbanger pages.
Edited by FinalStarman I'm not crazy, I just don't give a darn!
That didn't stop the That Guy With The Glasses and Zero Punctuation pages from being locked.
Well, that's because full-on fights were breaking out on a regular basis, especially with regards to whom the rules apply. In comparison, this is pretty civil. Heck, even compared to Family Guy, (still not locked) where people were submitting up to 8 DMOSes at once, this is pretty civil.
Edited by InTheGallbladder
Fair enough. I just get a little sad when someone posts a shark-jump for almost every episode. And Family Guy's huge DMOS page is justified since it tries to be offensive on a regular basis and falls flat on its ass every time.
...Maybe I should just stop looking at this page when a new episode comes out.
We're not necessarily accusing the show of jumping the shark.
I, for one, really did not like The Last Roundup. I didn't boycott the show over it, though. And ain't I glad I did—the next episode more than made up for it.
DMoS doesn't necessarily translate to "point where I stopped watching." The two aren't mutually exclusive, but at the same time, they aren't one and the same.
Understood. I need to stop using that to define every D Mo S. Makes me look like a member of the Fan Dumb.
Ok, I'm trying not to get too worked up over this page anymore, but seriously, is the "One moment per troper" rule that hard to follow?
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People will complain about everything. We might as well have an entry for every single fucking episode at this rate. Fucking christ...
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You're not any better off. We've had to fight you every time we wanted to voice our opinions regarding the show.
Seriously, if this show means so much to you that you feel compelled to tear down whatever criticism gets put up, what are you doing here?
I referred this page to the chaps at Ask The Tropers, and general consensus so far is that you're in the wrong.
Fine, fine. I admit, I had a bit of a rough day when I made yesterday's edits/comments, so I may not have been entirely in my right mind. Sorry.
Seriously though, that last entry was full of falsehoods and random swearing. I personally felt it had to go.
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Yeah, I'll let you have that one. That was Nerd Rage at best. But everything else... Remember the old aphorism:
"Opinions are like assholes—everybody's got one."
For the love of...now people are making up fake troper handles just to bypass the "one moment per troper" rule? REALLY?!
And Edman12, you have entries on multiple episodes. You can only have one.
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For the love of god people, stop twisting the aesops into what they aren't just so you can bitch about an episode that thousands loved but you didn't. "Luna Eclipsed" is not "never change who you are". "Feeling Pinkie Keen" is not "Religion is for idiots", "Secret of my Excess is not pro-slavery, etc.
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The entry about Hearth's Warning Eve is unbelievably petty. Windigo was a puny name, not an attempt by the show's crew to stick closely to the Wendigo myth.
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I was about to say that. Seriously, Wind-digo; it's not rocket science. Do fans need something to complain about even if it makes no Goddamn sense?
Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
Peridonyx, is there a reason you keep editing the same moment over and over again changing little things? To be honest it reads just fine and I don't get the constant changes.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know