01:52:06 PM Oct 11th 2016
Too lazy to join the thread - largely because I think keeping discussion here is a better idea, though at least a link should have been posted here once it started - but I think clowns should be added back onto this page, especially because of the recent "scary clown" trend that has no doubt only caused public opinion of clowns to worsen. Clowns are now known more for being scary than delightful. The thread begins here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14654177060A30520700&page=1
02:03:50 PM Oct 11th 2016
edited by Larkmarn
edited by Larkmarn
See, the Non-Ironic Clown trope occurred to me, but I think it's more of a Dead Horse Trope than Deader Than Disco because while it's completely dead in media, it's actually still pretty common in real life. Circuses and fairs still have plenty of them, believe it or not. Tons of toys marketed to smaller children feature them. EDIT: And indeed, it's on there. But yeah, it's not DTD.
03:20:02 PM Oct 11th 2016
Hmm, I'll just say without trying to be argumentative that it doesn't seem to me that people go to circuses & fairs for the clowns. Clowns just happen to be there when they go. So I'm not sure I could use that as a metric for whether clowns have less of a chance of making a comeback than disco. But that's why I posted here first - I didn't want to add something to a page currently undergoing a major, if underexposed, renovation only to have it removed. But one last thing - I do recall the example specified what kind of clown was DTD before it was taken down. As in, there are multiple kinds of clown and the one people know - and fear - the most is the biggest candidate for being DTD, because of things like the Joker, It, and of course the aforementioned scary clown trend. So if anything, I would say we could put it back but specify that that clown is the one known more for being fearsome than delightful. I've not been to a circus in many years so I don't know what today's clowns might look like. Just my two cents. I'm out.
11:34:58 AM Sep 28th 2016
The large scale removals While some removals may have been warranted I find it a bit strange that they were discussed in some obscure forum instead of the talk page of this here article. And some removals were NOT warranted.
12:11:39 PM Sep 28th 2016
edited by HighCrate
edited by HighCrate
You're welcome to join us in the cleanup thread and bring up any that you'd like to see reinstated. Discussion pages are great for discussing individual entries, but they're not good for organizing large multi-page cleanup efforts. Hence the cleanup thread.
02:24:15 PM Sep 17th 2016
edited by HighCrate
edited by HighCrate
No. Gay bars are still a thing. There's been no backlash against them except from the same people who hate "gay" anything. It would be hard to argue for them as "inescapably popular in their heyday" either.
02:07:18 PM Oct 11th 2016
edited by BackgroundGuy
edited by BackgroundGuy
She was never terribly popular, but I don't think her reputation has shifted in the way DTD implies. She had a mixed reception back then and I think her reputation now is still a mixed bag. To get on this list, she'd have to do something more than just rub part of America's population the wrong way, like how Bill Cosby allegedly date-raped women. EDIT: Oh, and that assumes we can actually list people. There seems to be a pretty firm consensus that we shouldn't, since that would invite a whole lot of trouble.
02:58:48 PM Aug 17th 2016
Any liberal examples? I see a lot of conservative ones (and some liberal). I'm non-political
02:03:46 PM Jul 1st 2016
Deader Than Disco is "massively popular, then the subject of near-universal backlash and derision." I don't see how any of that applies to the Black Panthers.
10:31:15 PM Jun 25th 2016
OK, so this entry I recently was removed:
- "Rape culture", a term coined by second-wave feminists in the 1970s, and its many components like victim blaming, befell a similar fate to pedophilia thanks to numerous efforts to cast it into a negative light. Back in the patriarchal culture of the 20th century, rape was viewed as not a serious matter and at worst, something that both parties were to be held responsible for. The sterotype that all women are promiscuous suggested that they were always "asking for" it and also helped criminalize the victim more than the perpetrator. With the rise of the Internet and social media in the 21st century, feminists were able to spread their many messages, including those on rape, across the entire world. This mass re-evaluation of gender roles redefined rape as a social taboo; the perpetrators were cast as monsters and victims as completely innocent woobies. Since then, the backlash against rape culture has led to the public crucifixions of once-respected personalities accused of being a rapist (i.e. Bill Cosby; record producer Dr. Luke; Canadian radio host Jian Ghomeshi) or defending rapists or rape culture or attacking victims (i.e. Cee-Lo Green; congressman Todd Akin; journalist George Will). Add this to numerous other scandals over mishandled rape cases (i.e. CNN making positive comments about two high school football players accused of rape; a false Rolling Stone article about a rape on the University of Virginia campus; the lenient sentencing of a former Stanford Univeristy swimmer over sexually assaulting an unconscious woman), and it's clear that the demonization of "rape culture" is complete.
04:12:00 PM May 10th 2016
Pulled the following entry:
- Steam locomotives as a serious mode of transportation. Sure, they have a lot of admirers and still do service on heritage railways, but nobody in their right mind would suggest getting from Madrid to Barcelona or from New York to Denver in a steam locomotive for anything other than fun. The steam lines that still exist are kept for their novelty or tourism value alone and usually run on nothing but enthusiasm of a frew volunteers. Interestingly, the image of steam locos has undergone the exact opposite development. When they were retired, they were viewed by both railway companies and their passengers (not without justification) as grimy, dirty, inefficient, loud and overall cumbersome. While none of those things have changed, many people harken back for the "good old days" when locomotives looked like they "should" and traveling meant raising steam.
06:07:50 PM May 10th 2016
Oh but it is remembered with derision. When it comes to transportation. It's only ever fondly remembered (and used) as a "toy". Imagine there was some technology that used to be very important in many ways and is now only seen as a toy if that. I don't know how we define this trope, but that's why I mentioned the caveat as a serious mode of transportation in the very first line. Steam trains are dead. That's why there is a trope Steam Never Dies. They're not used for freight, they are not used for long trips or scheduled service along major routes. Some of the stores listed here may be fondly remembered and some may even have nostalgia for them. But they're dead.
03:38:55 AM May 11th 2016
edited by lledsmar
edited by lledsmar
Even when used as a serious mode of transportation back then (19th Century- late 50's to mid 60's), most folks still like steam trains. Still popular with railfans and general public. Part of railroad past and not just a toy. They did their jobs. It's like saying diesel and electric trains are Deader Than Disco. Songs were written about steam trains (good and bad) and so on.
04:00:36 AM May 11th 2016
While I agree on pollution of steam trains (Industrial revolution wise), I wouldn't say they're bad.
04:17:29 AM May 11th 2016
Look the fact is today we don't see Steam Powered Trains aside from museums and period movies. We use more fuel efficient trains. We don't burn coal to move from one place to another. Steam Power is replaced with something more advanced and practical. So I say it stays.
08:45:14 AM May 11th 2016
Again: Deader Than Disco isn't "replaced with something more practical but still a subject of nostalgia." It's "dead, gone, and ONLY remembered with derision." With the exception of the odd Single-Issue Wonk like Jhonny here, when people remember steam locomotives, they don't say, "Oh, God, remember when we used to burn coal to move trains? How were we ever so ass-backwards?" They say, "Well, it may not be practical any more, but by God, there was just something magical about that era of rail travel." And most of them don't even bother with that first part. It's Not an Example. At all.
10:13:31 AM May 11th 2016
And there are people who say "Do you remember how we used to go to Hertie and they had everything you wanted?" - does not keep Hertie from being dead. Deader than dead in fact, the name has disappeared from all registries. If the fact that no nostalgia exists is necessary for the trope to apply, there are some things that should be removed from the list. And yes an announcement of "Let's take the Denver and Rio Grande steam train to Albuquerque at 12:30" would get you looked at about the same as saying "Let's go to Hertie to buy a corsage" - someone not living in this century. Now I like railroads as much as the next person (in fact I don't actively dislike steam trains), but I am realist enough to see: Steam is dead. Has been for quite some time. And the future of rail travel is bright, fast and - electric. And arguing electric trains are dead is probably from someone from a certain geographic region. I won't presume anything, but ridership in Europe has been on a solid upward trend for decades now. Especially on high speed lines.
11:18:00 AM May 11th 2016
Except you're willfully ignoring our definition of Deader Than Disco. Hell, it's why Steam Never Dies. It's not just "gone forever" it's "gone forever and thank goodness, how was that ever popular?" Public opinion on it has to have soured, which it has not. If anything, Nostalgia Filter has endeared it more to people.
01:24:10 PM May 11th 2016
- "If the fact that no nostalgia exists is necessary for the trope to apply, there are some things that should be removed from the list."
11:03:03 AM Apr 11th 2016
I wanted to add Scientology to the page, it's a pretty clear-cut example to me but I don't know how to do it without inviting trouble. Some collaboration, perhaps? Anyone wanna help out?
12:02:15 PM Apr 11th 2016
I don't think Scientology quite qualifies because it was never a mainstream idea to begin with, nor any significant movement. It had supporters in small pockets of influential celebrities and businessmen, but that was it. There was never any major Scientology movie or any such thing.
09:22:19 PM Jul 11th 2015
What's with the cutting of a lot of the examples under business (i.e. Radio Shack)? Yes there needs to be more non-US examples, but many businesses in film and online are based in the US. I'm sure there are non-US retail establishments that appear in films and television that are now Deader Than Disco, they should be included as well.
12:45:59 PM May 14th 2015
edited by matruz
edited by matruz
The Atheism+ entry should be present in the page, the movement although divisive as mentioned was indeed popular and very big when it was first proposed, and also as it was mentioned the behavior of the proponents was the cause for it to fall from popularity, these are objective facts. Also the entry is not intended a Take That! at feminists or "Social Justice Warriors" per se, just the radical and militant ones, if anything maybe then entry could be reworded to be more neutral.
03:50:18 PM May 14th 2015
These things usually aren't "objective facts". And even when they are this page puts more emphasis on the popularity than the reasons, so I'd focus on popularity aspects.
05:44:43 PM Aug 12th 2014
Would "cash for gold" businesses fit? These were everywhere in the late 2000's/early 2010's but have mostly died off in recent years, along with attempts to bring the US back to the gold standard.
10:28:22 PM Sep 1st 2014
But it has gone away considerably from its heyday. In a way, austerity (which is here) replaced it in a political sense while business-wise, the latest boom has become e-cigs (which is bound to join this list in the next few years since it's been revealed to not be worth the money).
11:05:42 AM Nov 11th 2013
04:37:02 PM Oct 15th 2016
I think it's worth pointing out that people think this trope applies instead because it's so easy to look back and laugh at what technology used to be. However, this is because today we have a better idea of where technology can go, whereas back then nobody could really imagine the technology we have today since they neither had the experience to look forward the way we do nor the cynicism to look backward in derisive laughter. Today, we have expectations; back then, nobody knew what to expect. Back then we were na´ve, today we know tomorrow can be quite different.
05:31:00 PM Jun 24th 2013
Is it at all possible to make this page any less US-centric? Or at least point out when examples primarily concern the US?
10:29:35 AM Jul 25th 2014
Yeah... but as most tropers think that the USA is all there is to the world, probably because most tropers are American, it behooves the non-American troper to make the necessary changes. And to be honest, I'm not that gung-ho about replacing the wall of text that is this page.
04:34:11 PM Oct 15th 2016
There's no reason to make that assumption about all tropers. The simple case is, as you implied, that most of us live in America and therefore simply lack the knowledge that others would have. That we don't have it doesn't mean we think there's nothing outside our own borders. Please refrain from casting aspersions about other tropers based on nationality.