Characters Warhammer 40000 Discussion

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09:17:36 PM Mar 11th 2016
Should the Old Ones have their entry or at least their own part in the Xenos page?
04:50:47 PM Apr 12th 2014
So... The Imperial Knights. Should we give them a section in the Imperial Current Factions, like the Sisters of Battle?
03:49:20 PM Apr 4th 2014
We need a seperate page for the Chaos Marines. Who's up for the task?
12:25:55 AM Apr 5th 2014
Since they are currently on Characters.Warhammer 40000 Forces Of Chaos, you ought to ask here.
01:58:51 PM Jan 30th 2014
So, the Tyranid and Ork pages currently have special characters added, and will probably/hopefully get those expanded upon, especially by folks with access to older editions (only have 3rd through 6th myself). However, I have to ask; what about the special characters for Chaos (which, right now, is a portmanteau of Chaos in general, the Chaos Gods, Daemons, the Traitor Legions and the Lost & the Damned), the Space Marines or the Imperium as a whole?

Some Space Marine legions, loyalist and traitor, have trope pages of their own, complete with character sheets, because of the Black Library novels; do characters from the game go on those pages as well?

What about characters like the Inquistors from the late 3rd/early 4th Witchhunters and Daemonhunters codexes? Do they go under the general Imperium character page, or somewhere else?

...In fact, what about the Eldar, since the page houses Craftworld, Dark and Exodite Eldar all at the same time? Do special characters for each race just get folded into each race's folder, underneath the racial tropes as a whole?
01:30:05 AM Nov 7th 2012
I'm making pages for the codex'd "Xeno Races". There are a TON of miscellaneous aliens out there, enough for their own entry; the same goes for each army with a codex.
01:39:18 PM Oct 4th 2011
Quick question: Are the Sisters of Battle considered to be an important enough group to be given their own section on the Imperial Factions page, or are they just subsets of the Inquisition?
02:18:43 PM Oct 4th 2011
Definitely important enough. For a start, they're not just a subset of the Inquisition, they're the bloody armed forces of the Ecclesiarchy.
10:35:04 PM Aug 25th 2011
Question: should either the main page, or a new page, be used to house character sheets for the actual important characters in the setting? The Emperor, each of the Chaos Gods, Eldrad Ulthuan, Commander Farsight, the Primarchs, Angron, etcetera?
09:05:39 PM Sep 4th 2011
I honestly think that major characters like the Emperor and the Chaos Gods could get their own folders in their respective pages, and see no reason why major alien characters shouldn't.
10:02:31 PM Feb 16th 2011
I don't want to start an edit war, so I guess I should post here. Yes? No?

Anyway, I'd like to argue that the Tau are Space Minotaurs. Maybe not quite in the way that the Orks are Space Orcs or the Eldar are Space Elves, but the connection is there.

I tried to put in a link to Our Minotaurs Are Different (which I now see is actually, and confusingly, named A Load of Bull), and it got deleted. I'd like to make my case, and see what the general consensus is before abandoning the point altogether.

1. They are outright stated to be descended from bovine grazing animals, have hooves, and are biologically vegetarian.

2. Broadly speaking, their culture, like that of many a fantasy minotaur, is generally peaceful when not provoked to anger, and is led by a group of secretive and mysterious druid-equivalents.

3. Their name, Tau, it seems to me, is clearly derived from Taurus, which is the Greek word for bull. At least one person I know of has argued that it actually stands for the Greek letter Τ (lowercase τ), but had no real compelling reason why.

Any one of these things might be a coincidence, but together I feel they make a compelling case.

All against?
09:17:47 AM Feb 17th 2011
edited by MatthewTheRaven
1. They're not Minotaurs because they lack any minotaur-like features other than hooves. They lack horns, a bovine face, or the robust stature of minotaurs. Hooves on an otherwise grey-like body would indicate more demonic or satyr-like influence on their design, this being Warhammer 40K and all.

2. Minotaurs are only really kind, peaceful people in Warcraft, where they're Noble Savages. The Tau are definitely NOT noble savages. The minotaur equivalent in Warhammer fantasy are brutal beastmen, and in classical mythology, the Minotaur was a savage, man-eating monster.

3. Tau comes from the Chinese term Tao or Dao, because they're Space Asians. Once again, they have no real bull-like features other than the hooves.

Likewise, minotaurs have no association with high technology or Communism, and I've never seen minotaurs depicted as the smallest of the major races and SUCKING at close combat. If they have any fantasy equivalent, they're hobbits/gnomes in space.
12:10:43 PM Feb 17th 2011
edited by SpectralTime
1. The Tau themselves might not possess horns and a sturdy build, but their battlesuits do. Kroot lack feathers, eggs, and wings, and possess scales, yet no one has a problem calling them birdmen because they have beaks. I feel that sufficient effort has been expended to bring their general appearance in line with a minotaur aesthetic that it cannot be simply ignored, or (illogically, given the Tau lack of warp presence and distance aesthetically in all other ways) immediately attributed to a Chaotic influence or motif.

2. This is a simple Older Than They Think mistake. Warcraft certainly made the idea of peaceful minotaurs common among the general public, but the idea spreads at least as far back as Dragon Lance, the Quest for Glory games, and as one of the many subraces in Magic: The Gathering. As to the Warhammer Fantasy comparison, you are absolutely right. However, not EVERY faction in 40k has a perfect Fantasy equivalent, and there is no reason that the Tau need necessarily align with the Chaos Dwarves or Beastmen if they are minotaurs any more than the Old Ones need to align with Lizardmen or the omnicidal Necrons with the morally-neutral live-and-let-unlive Tomb Kings.

3. And, here, I simply call Double Entendre. Why can't it refer to both? I'm not claiming that being Space Minotaurs is the only influence that went into the Tau. That would be stupid. They obviously have Asian culture as a big influential factor in their society. However, just as Space Marines are not JUST Space Paladins or the Necrons are not JUST Space Zombies, so I feel that one can say that the Tau are not just a Space Asian Cultural Conglomerate or just Space Minotaurs.

4. Their Communism is born from their (by your own admission) Asian desire for harmony and peace over conflict, which is where the association lies: the bovine "herd-instinct." (No Unfortunate Implications implied.)

5. Finally, yeah, you're right. The Tau sucking at close combat is, in my eyes one of the interesting subversions of fantasy logic that I like about Warhammer, like comic relief orcs or kind, child-like ogres (now THERE's a characterization unprecedented in fantasy).

If I can't convince anyone here that I have any kind of point, though, I wish to stress that I am more than willing to shut up, put my head down, and move on. Sorry about the fuss.
12:36:18 PM Feb 17th 2011
1. I feel like those horns are a bit of a stretch - they're uneven for one thing, are swept back, and are more likely meant to be seen as antennae, fitting the "little green man" aesthetic.

2. They're still always Noble Savages. Tau are not.

3 and 4. These only works if you accept the Minotaur thesis as a given. Hell, many Tyranids have hooves, a hive mind heard instinct, and horns. Khornite daemons have hooves and horns...

5. You can see it as a subversion, but I still see it as evidence of no connection. If Games Workshop decided to do something as subtly (which they have never done, ever) as this minotaur-tau connection, I doubt they'd subvert so many basic minotaur attributes.

12:10:26 PM Mar 1st 2011
Point of clarification: Minotaurs in Magic: The Gathering are brutal and violent, while minotaurs in Dragonlance are Lawful Evil marauders. I have never heard of a noble minotaur culture in fantasy other than Warcraft.

Tau aren't minotaurs. They're The Greys.
03:01:36 AM Oct 29th 2010
Who nuked the minor characters?
10:07:56 PM Nov 1st 2010
Like I said, they were pretty scrawny so I merged the Imperial ones into the Imperium trope list, and put the non-Codex aliens under the Xeno Factions entry. If stuff like the Adeptus Arbites can be summed up in a trope or two, I don't see why they need their own entries.
03:29:29 PM Oct 16th 2010
Unless anyone has some objections, I'm going to merge the scrawny-looking entries on the bottom of the page with the Imperium and Xenos overviews as appropriate.

Also, let's pick a standardized format for the trope lists: colons, dashes, or double dashes?
04:55:21 PM May 20th 2010
Should we start a character sheet about indiviusal 40K special characters.
09:03:27 PM May 20th 2010
edited by Foryn
I would suggest that for such an extensive project as that we simply provide a link to Lexicanum and a "Go wild." statement.
01:16:05 PM May 15th 2010
If the space marines are the best army to start with, what would be the worst?
11:06:38 AM May 16th 2010
Well... you need to spend far more real-world money to get a proper army of Orks, Tyranids or Imperial Guard. And Imperial Guard, in particular, require the use of proper tactics (without wishing to disparage Space Marine players — but you must admit, that 3+ save is darned handy).
06:23:45 PM May 22nd 2010
So, Space marines are less expensive as well?
12:31:22 PM Mar 10th 2011
Space Marines have a lower model count, a lot of support, and a huge secondary market on eBay that lowers prices. You can get a full 2000 point army for about $300 on ebay. It's about twice that for some of the others. Chaos is in a similar boat, and Necrons have low model counts, so they make good starters too.. Orks, Tyranids and Imperial Guard have especially high model counts, and Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, and Sisters of Battle need a lot more finesse and strategy to pull off, as well as being less supported.

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