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danceljoy Since: May, 2009
Jun 28th 2015 at 3:29:51 AM •••

I'll probably add this to the Author's Notes next chapter:

The reason why Korra is Easily Forgiven is that Katara, Zuko, the White Lotus, Air Acolytes and the Gaang descendants are all feeling responsible for not being able to make sure the Red Lotus were dead and not being able to locate Korra. In a way they share Asami's It's All My Fault feelings. Although in their case, they were all capable adults while Asami was just a child back then.

Edited by danceljoy Co-Author of The Saga Of Avatar Korra Hide / Show Replies
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
Jun 28th 2015 at 7:54:03 AM •••

Definitely do that. If you do that, we can write down 'Word of God' or simply 'the writers' states the reason why Korra is easily forgiven by those individuals was due to them feeling responsible for failing Korra. That would make things much easier.

danceljoy Since: May, 2009
Jun 28th 2015 at 8:02:35 AM •••

Due to the nature of our fanfic we really don't focus on the Gaang and their descendants but rather on the new characters. But we did at least some lines where Katara and Zuko has expressed how much they felt they failed the next Avatar.

Co-Author of The Saga Of Avatar Korra
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
Jun 28th 2015 at 8:06:46 AM •••

I understand that the Gaang and their descendants aren't really the main focus, but we like how you've given them some plot. Anyway, despite that I would definitely like you write that in the author notes.

Kradeiz Since: Feb, 2015
May 31st 2015 at 8:03:53 PM •••

This is Kradeiz, the editor who made those deletions to the Characters page a few weeks ago.

First of all, I want to apologize to Knowledgeseeker. This was my first time editing on TV Tropes and I was unaware of proper procedure, (I was also confused by the space left to explain my editing choices, thinking it was a space to confirm my identity. Needless to say, I felt pretty stupid about that blunder.) so I’m sorry for the inconvenience and any frustration I might have caused. Before I make any further deletions or significant edits I will post my thoughts and recommendations in the Discussion page here.

With that in mind, I have three tropes I would like to address here:

Spanner in the Works – for Asami, I’m not sure if that fits, as the Spanner trope usually applies to a character ruining the villains’ plan through clumsiness or stupidity (or in some cases, insanity), and Asami ended up ruining the RL’s plans through her innocent meeting with Korra as children, and her being a kind, kickass friend later in life. I thought the Unwitting Instigator of Doom might fit, but that only works if it actually results in…well, doom. But I think Didn’tSeeThatComing would be a fitting replacement, as that innocent meeting with Korra ends up throwing off the plans of a multi-national terrorist group that had been plotting things out meticulously for over a decade.

Impaled with Extreme Prejudice – also for Asami, I don’t think that one fits either as it applies to a character being stabbed clean through, usually by a very large object (Vlad the Impaler style). I tried to think of an alternative, maybe the Human Pincushion, but that only works when a character is stabbed a ridiculous number of times and often the assaulting weapons remain lodged. Ouch.

Big Brother Worship – for Bolin. Whether in this fic or in canon, I don’t think this applies to Bolin. The two brothers love each other and Bolin clearly respects Mako, but it never seems to go so far as the wide-eyed admiration we see from many in that trope. It is possible Bolin might have been that way when they were younger before and shortly after their parents died, but I have a feeling the mean streets would’ve sapped that out of him pretty quickly.

And that’s about it for now, though Book 2 will certainly bring in some new tropes to add in. Again, sorry to Knowledgeseeker for the trouble, and my thanks to both danceljoy and Septimus Heap for clueing me in to where I messed up.

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Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
May 31st 2015 at 8:40:26 PM •••

I've seen people use 'Spanner in the Works' for things that did not involve stupidity at all. Sometimes it can be something that was simply done unknowingly or not taking into account some other factor. The things that Asami said put a monkey wrench in the plans the Red Lotus had for Korra because what Asami said gave Korra doubts. As a result, she is a Spanner in the Works. We can add 'Did Not See That Coming' to the Red Lotus entry in connection with what we have here since they literally did not see that coming.

Asami was stabbed twice, and they were fatal wounds. Impaled with extreme prejudice does not necessarily mean he or she was impaled with a large object. I suppose that is usually the case, but it doesn't have to be. There are examples on the main page that involve getting stabbed with a knife.

You're assuming Bolin wouldn't idealize his brother anymore after years of living on the street. I'm under the impression he still thinks very highly of him. While I suppose this one is debatable, I think it should remain here for now.

Edited by Knowledgeseeker
Kradeiz Since: Feb, 2015
Jun 1st 2015 at 6:58:52 PM •••

In the case of Asami and Spanner in the Works, and I quote, “Whether it's The Ditz, The Fool, Inspector Oblivious, or a monkey, this miscreant is capable of derailing the most ironclad plan by unknowingly taking a third option. They ruin the implausible Gambit Roulette by exploiting their one, intrinsic flaw: their reliance on Contrived Coincidence, rigid patterns, and the assumption that nobody would be stupid enough to actually push the Big Red Button or fight the apparently unstoppable robot.” Asami does not apply. Yes, she gave Korra doubts about the RL, but it was not through stupidity, recklessness or out-of-the-box thinking, it was just her being kind and honest.

And with Impaled with Extreme Prejudice, “When someone just needs to be run through with a big rod. Bigger is better in bad. The defining element is the shock value of the impalement. Imaginative impalements qualify. Death by bladed weapon (knife, sword, foil, lightsaber, beheading) generally does not qualify (unless the victim is stabbed through the face or something). Garden-variety vampire stakings, à la Buffy the Vampire Slayer, don't count, but extraordinary stakings do count. Often appears with Anvilicious symbolism with a side dish of Freudianism. If it's a bad guy who's been impaled on a long, sharp thing (or sword) in the hero's hand, he'll sometimes pull himself along the shaft towards the hero, either to get close enough to kill the hero or just to creep them out.”

This trope applies even less to Asami, not only because of how she is impaled, but the fact that she was never actually impaled at all. Impalement means that a weapon pierced the body and went on through the other side of it. I messaged the authors and they said Asami was stabbed, not impaled.

I will leave Big Brother Worship for now, as it is debateable, but with the other two, the reasoning that people have added other examples that don’t fit the tropes’ descriptions aren’t a sign of their validity. Those examples that don’t apply should probably be edited out, too.

Edited by Kradeiz
danceljoy Since: May, 2009
Jun 2nd 2015 at 5:44:45 AM •••

I can confirm that the knife didn't go through the other side. It wasn't long enough.

Co-Author of The Saga Of Avatar Korra
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
Jun 2nd 2015 at 8:16:47 AM •••

Then what do you propose we put as a trope regarding Asami's stab injury. Human Pincushion doesn't exactly seem fitting either based on what I read. It probably fits less than the impaled one.

SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
Jun 2nd 2015 at 9:27:36 AM •••

Is it a trope, period? Not all things that happen are tropes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
Jun 2nd 2015 at 10:05:53 AM •••

I would think getting stabbed can go with some kind of trope. Apparently, it doesn't fall in the Impaled with Extreme Prejudice trope since it didn't go through Asami's body.

SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
Jun 2nd 2015 at 11:47:21 AM •••

Nah, that alone is not a trope.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
Jun 2nd 2015 at 12:02:20 PM •••

I know that it does not have a specific trope name, but isn't there something else it can go with besides 'Not Quite Dead' since she would have died without Korra healing her?

SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
Jun 2nd 2015 at 11:42:55 PM •••

Healing Hands is the only trope I can see there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
Jun 3rd 2015 at 12:26:11 AM •••

Never mind then.

On another note, people apparently suggest or create tropes on occasions. How does that happen?

SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
Jun 3rd 2015 at 1:23:05 AM •••

You make a proposal in YKTTW. Keep in mind that "people get stabbed" is People Sit on Chairs and won't pass YKTTW.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
Jun 3rd 2015 at 7:26:01 AM •••

I'd probably try to come up with a better name than that, but thanks for telling me.

danceljoy Since: May, 2009
Jun 2nd 2015 at 5:51:53 AM •••

I removed the Anti-Hero entry for the whole Team Avatar

Just because Asami wore armor to shield herself from Zaheer's chiblocking it doesn't give her anti-Hero traits. As for Bolin's case, it's something similar to a war. If you're enemies are shooting/stabbing your friends you shoot/stab back - it doesn't make traditionally heroic characters anti heroes.

For example- Wonder Woman kills but she's no Anti-Hero. Batman does not kill but he is considered a symbol of being an Anti-Hero.

Anti-Hero does apply to Mako. For Korra, the story will reveal if it fits her.

Co-Author of The Saga Of Avatar Korra Hide / Show Replies
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
Jun 2nd 2015 at 8:15:20 AM •••

I wasn't the one who did the Anti-Hero entry, but I don't think that person put it there because Asami wore armor.

danceljoy Since: May, 2009
May 24th 2015 at 8:39:42 AM •••

Hello this is Puffie the author. Some issue I have with the page:

[deleted and issue settled]

Edited by danceljoy Co-Author of The Saga Of Avatar Korra Hide / Show Replies
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
May 24th 2015 at 11:30:23 AM •••

You can edit yourself, you know. Just remember that stuff that doesn't show up in the work itself doesn't belong.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
danceljoy Since: May, 2009
May 24th 2015 at 2:28:21 PM •••

I want my readers to know the edits are necessary at the first place (if I ever edit since I'm busy actually writing the work). It serves as my own commentary, and in the same way, maybe in the future these can be avoided.

Edited by danceljoy Co-Author of The Saga Of Avatar Korra
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
Jun 1st 2015 at 9:44:40 AM •••

I explained to you twice why Kuvira is low on the page. She isn't a main character in your story yet. She was at best a reoccurring character in Book One. I did state she is set to become a major character in Book Two which hasn't happened yet. After she becomes a main character in Book Two and we understand her exact role, then we will change that, but not before.

I switched the positions of Mako and Bolin, so Bolin is higher on the list. We've added a few tropes to Bolin and Mako. I'm discussing with a fellow troper about what tropes to add to different characters, including minor/reoccurring characters, such as Hiroshi. While we have given Korra more tropes since she is obviously the main character and most troperific, we plan on expanding the other entries as well. Asami has a number of tropes too, but she is also 'troperific' as well it is not necessarily bias. We plan on giving Bolin and Mako the same treatment as well. Unfortunately, we have busy schedules in the real world, so that does delay things.

When it comes to Senna and Tonraq, usually when we list characters, you put the leader at the top. Tonraq is the leader of the South Pole while Senna is his wife. In the book series, A Song of Fire and Ice, Robb Stark lacked any of his own POV chapters, but he was still listed higher than most characters since he was the leader. The only characters higher than him were Eddard Stark, the leader before him, and his mother.

I wasn't the one who originally wrote Asami and Bolin loved radio shows. However, it doesn't change the fact they both like them. Having things in common with another isn't a bad thing to point out. It is something they sort of bond over. They have a huge conversation about it which does help develop their friendship.

I'm not bias against Mako. If I was bias, I wouldn't have written in the YMMV entry that Mako has been better received due to what you did in this story. It is true that some readers have stated they like what you did with Mako better than in canon. I'm just pointing it out. Additionally, one of my fellow tropes have pointed out they like what you did with Bolin as well. If we haven't already, we will point out that Bolin feels uncomfortable around Eska.

Edited by Knowledgeseeker
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
May 5th 2015 at 9:35:09 PM •••

We should consider the idea of splitting the character page into multiple character pages similar to the canon series after the story gets into Book Two.

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danceljoy Since: May, 2009
May 22nd 2015 at 5:42:08 PM •••

This is Puffie. I don't think that would be necessary. I have some issues with the page but I wouldn't demand an edit right now in the risk that I might spoil my intentions.

Co-Author of The Saga Of Avatar Korra
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
May 22nd 2015 at 6:23:03 PM •••

I do apologize for the issues. Anyway, if a lot more characters get introduced and/or a lot more tropes get added to the characters, especially for Korra, then a page separation is almost necessary.

danceljoy Since: May, 2009
May 23rd 2015 at 7:09:12 AM •••

No need to apologize for anything! After all, this is supposed to be a reader's work and we are flattered by that. My issues aren't major, and I would most likely address it through the fanfic itself and hopefully our intentions are best reflected there.

BTW for Iroh's age, if you check the Red Lotus vs Fire Nation family flashback you'll know how old he is in the fanfiction.

Co-Author of The Saga Of Avatar Korra
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
May 23rd 2015 at 7:13:28 AM •••

That was an edit someone else made. Anyway, which chapter did that flashback happen again?

danceljoy Since: May, 2009
May 23rd 2015 at 7:25:01 AM •••

I think it's... Chapter 8: The Chiblocker Lady? Around that part... Ming's second flashback. That is very minor though, and his age will be more apparent in Book 2's prologue.

I plan to release an age list anyway at the end of Book 2 or at the very end of the story.

Edited by danceljoy Co-Author of The Saga Of Avatar Korra
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
May 13th 2015 at 11:49:41 AM •••

Can we discuss any potential trope deletions here beforehand? I would greatly appreciate it.

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Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
May 13th 2015 at 11:56:53 AM •••

That seems unnecessary, but he should've left an edit reason justifying it.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
May 13th 2015 at 12:25:26 PM •••

I can assure you that wasn't the case. There was no reason given.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
May 13th 2015 at 12:35:12 PM •••

Oh, I saw. What he did wasn't super kosher.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Knowledgeseeker Since: Sep, 2013
May 13th 2015 at 8:47:21 PM •••

Anyway, since I'm the one who created this page along with some of the other pages, I do want others to contribute. I love it when contributions are made to expand the page. However, when tropes are deleted without an explanation, I definitely would like to know why he or she considers it necessary. I personally think all the tropes we have on the page are fine and don't need to be deleted.

SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
May 14th 2015 at 1:54:07 AM •••

There is one troper making these deletions and they always use "Kradeiz" as an edit reason. Calling them in for a talk.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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