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acrobox
topic
08:49:00 AM Jul 2nd 2014
edited by 104.32.174.58
Born Winner / The Chosen One / Fore Gone Conclusion etc etc etc.

So this has become a bit of an edit war between whether or not Naruto being an incarnation of Ashura helped him at all.

The whole point of being an incarnation of Ashura is not that he unlocked his chakra potential early. He obviously didn't use any Ashura related powers in Part I or for most of Part II. The First Hokage as of this point in the manga hasn't used any Ashura powers at all. That's not how being Ashura 'helps.'

The point is that like Ashura no matter how low he started he would ultimately rise to the top. Ergo even though he never tapped into his godlike powers, being Ashura pretty much guaranteed that someday he would rise to being one of the best Ninjas of his generation just like the First Hokage, regardless of how long or how hard it would be to get there.

I.E. His never give up attitude and ability to beat the odds are a result of having Ashura's chakra and spirit within him, not something that's unique to him as an individual.
SuperSaiyaMan
06:36:03 PM Jul 4th 2014
Except he isn't a literal reincarnation. Asura's mind, body, and spirit didn't reincarnate into him, ONLY his chakra. All Naruto got was Asura's energy that had been passed down through the generations. Asura and Naruto had remarkably similar lives, but that doesn't mean Naruto's a carbon copy of him.
bubbles
topic
06:35:31 AM Dec 21st 2013
edited by 123.136.106.89
Panicked and posted here in a hurry because I accidentally erased yamato's section. now that blind me saw the history tab and fixed my mistakes, please ignore this post as i cannot delete it, only editing it.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
topic
01:53:33 AM Feb 11th 2013
This item is being edit warred over. Please don^t just blindly readd it.
  • Anchored Ship: Now with his hand holding with Hinata after she gets him out of the depression of Neji's death, as well as his vow never to be away from her side again, AND powering her up *while Sakura is nowhere to be found*, it seems like Kishimoto is truly pushing that Hinata and Naruto are getting together and anchoring the ship.
Sienna
06:14:11 AM Feb 11th 2013
edited by Sienna
Okay honestly what that previous troper said really was a mistranslation. Naruto NEVER made a vow to leave Hinata's side. Second, it cannot be confidently claimed that Kishimoto is pushing Naruto and Hinata. There is no official statement and everyone interprets the recent scenes differently(as in they believe it is still one sided on Hinata's end and Naruto only sees the moments as friendship moments). I'll at least acknowledge the fact that Hinata doing things recently has complicated matters but other than that what was there before was just an opinionated piece. Sorry if I sound rude btw.
SuperSaiyaMan
10:58:15 AM Feb 11th 2013
edited by SuperSaiyaMan
How is it a mistranslation? Show other translations of what Naruto said please. And what 'official statements' are needed more than what has already showed? You know very well that Kishimoto hasn't exactly provided interviews nor has created a new databook. The entire war arc has moved towards Naruto and Hinata territory while Naruto and Sakura was pushed further and further into the background. Seinna, post a translation please and please explain why if Naruto's anchored to Sakura-why hadn't she showed up at all and why hasn't she been at Naruto's side at all.
Sienna
01:40:08 PM Feb 11th 2013
edited by Sienna
(We can link manga pages here right?) Anyways first can we clarify you are talking about this: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c615/20.html EDIT: the mistranslated part is some versions say, "I will never let go of this hand!!"

If so that's an editors note and it refers to Neji. Naruto never said anything about staying by Hinata's side. He doesn't say anything about staying by anyone's side. The closest he gets is thanking Hinata for being next to him in that moment.

Again that is your interpretation but not fact. For everyone who thinks that way, there are just as many people who think the Hinata-focus is just bringing a resolution to her character(which doesn't mean she'll end up with Naruto). It's way too early to say Kishimoto is pushing Naruto and Hinata especially when you don't have any concrete proof. Go to any pairing debate and you can see different but plausible counter interpretations(from pairing and nonpairing fans alike). Bottom line? You can't proof Kishimoto supports Naruto and Hinata unless the man says it himself or Naruto sticks his hand down Hinata's pants in the upcoming chapters.

Well unless the Naruto manga will end in the next two chapters then it is also too early to say that Sakura is down and out. And you have discredited yourself a little with that statement. She has been showing up in every chapter Hinata has except 616 and 617. Her disappearance has been noted by all of the fanbase and one conclusion to jump to is something big is going to happen to her(but do note that is not the ONLY conclusion...which is why I'm not putting that prediction on the main page...)

You are jumping to conclusions a bit too early. Be a little patient okay? Once the whole pairing thing is resolved and if Hinata wins THEN you can go crazy and add a bunch of your interpretations saying 'I WAS RIGHT' :P. Until then, the Naru Hina opinion isn't the default opinion and thus the main page should stay neutral(especially since I don't think the site itself backs up Naru Hina). As of right now, pairings are still Hinat likes Naruto who likes Sakura who likes Sasuke until proven beyond a doubt otherwise. Thank you for your time. Sorry for the wall of text.
SuperSaiyaMan
03:12:43 PM Feb 11th 2013
edited by SuperSaiyaMan
...who snapped Naruto out of his Heroic BSOD? Who corrected his shoulder? Who received the power up first? Who was right by Naruto's side throughout these chapters? Whose relationship has been focused on since 539?

Seriously, Sakura has done nothing ever since her arrival on the main battlefield, hasn't helped Naruto AT ALL and disappears. Hell even Kishimoto said in past interviews that Sakura keeps slipping his mind and that Hinata was more of a main heroine than her.

Its becoming ABUNDANTLY obvious that Kishimoto is following through his plan in the beginning to pair Naruto and Hinata together. The last chapters prove it. And how is it way too early? The manga is gonna be ending soon.

...didn't we argue on deviantART or are you a different person Sienna?
Sienna
03:45:57 PM Feb 11th 2013
Well Kurama lol. Even after Hinata made her speech Naruto still had doubts until Kurama said something. Seriously it's kind of silly now. Yes Hinata has made her place as Naruto's friend but seriously anything on Naruto's side could still be interpreted as friendship.

...You're kind of discrediting yourself again. She's been healing the other ninja, in fact Kakashi was the first one she healed. We don't know why yet. Patience. Kishimoto certainly didn't forget Sakura when he was designing the cover and spread for the new year and when he worked on the RTN movie the second is also a mistranslation from what I heard...

Seriously dude? You can believe that if you want. I obviously disagree but I didn't come here to debate :/. And you can't really keep your facts straight so...why don't you go look at some Naru Hina fanart or fanfiction and just wait for the end like the rest of us?

No I'm definitely a different Sienna.

SuperSaiyaMan
03:54:01 PM Feb 11th 2013
edited by SuperSaiyaMan
How low would Naruto be if he dumped Hinata for Sakura at this moment Sienna? She's the one who fucking snapped him out of everything. She's the one whose stayed by his side EVER SINCE SHE GOT THERE. Even Kiba calls Naruto out on trying to show off in front of Hinata.

Sakura? Why didn't she immediately go to Naruto's side to help? Why was she thrust so far into the background she wasn't even in a group shot of the rest of Naruto's friends and allies? Why didn't she snap Naruto out of the Heroic BSOD? Why didn't she do anything that a Love Interest or Main Heroine would do during this entire fucking arc?

And yes, Kishimoto has admitted that Sakura slipped his mind in past interviews. Oh, in a cover and a non-canon movie, yeah, that really proves he remembers she even exists.

Its not a mistranslation. Do you even go to Naruto forums in the first place to check things out or even ask translators?

Seriously, you're showing you're just blind and don't want to see the winds of change in the Naruto and Hinata relationship and just 'oh she just did a friendship thing'. No, it was far, far more than that. Honestly...its like the Katara x Zuko crowd continually ignoring Katara x Aang developments.
Sienna
04:12:36 PM Feb 11th 2013
That is your interpretation.

Yes and I have talked to other sites too.

I don't want to fight. Good day :)!
SuperSaiyaMan
04:15:03 PM Feb 11th 2013
How is it an 'interpretation'? Look at how Japan goes on about relationships, a simple hand hold is a massive relationship upgrade in most Shonen and Shoujo.

Really, which translators and which sites have you gone to for this 'information'?
Sienna
04:34:51 PM Feb 11th 2013
edited by Sienna
Because some people don't see it the way you do.

I read it on this site http://www.2chan.net/ once. And japanese-speakers on www.tumblr.com and one more credible source I think but I don't think you'll accept it. That's as far as I'll go because I realize I do need to back my word up lol.

SuperSaiyaMan
04:48:13 PM Feb 11th 2013
I go to Narutoforums, mangahelpers, and many other sites. 2chan.net isn't really that credible.

You're a Sakura fan aren't you?
Werebazs
05:35:57 AM Feb 12th 2013
edited by Werebazs
Super Saiya Man I'm a Naru Hina supporter as well, but I agree with Sienna: Nothing is confirmed yet regarding their relationship, and eventhough I also see these developments as a sign of them eventually becoming a couple, knowing Kishi I won't be surprised if he does Naru Saku regardless of these chapters. Until Naruto "return-confesses" to Hinata, any Couple/Shipping tropes about them should be left off these pages, because anything less really does leave way too much place for personal interpretation.
NotHereToCauseAnyTrouble
09:00:50 AM Feb 12th 2013
edited by NotHereToCauseAnyTrouble
I support that we keep Naruto and Hinata's maybe-Relationship Upgrade mostly off the page for the time being, and put emphasis on the "maybe" part if we refer to it (like we did on the main (alphabetized) trope pages). It seems like a reasonable enough approach given Kishi's fickle history of handling romance in the series and the needless shitstorms that would arise if we jump the gun and declare something canon when it really isn't yet.

Still, this?

"For everyone who thinks that way, there are just as many people who think the Hinata-focus is just bringing a resolution to her character(which doesn't mean she'll end up with Naruto)"

Is patently false. There are exactly zero people who don't ship NaruSaku (or Naru-something-else) who believe this, and of the people who do ship NaruSomething, a smaller fraction still of over-zealous shippers with their heads in the sand incapable of making a mind-numbingly simple inference of apparent authorial intent (or, rather, unwilling to make that inference). I think you're mistaking the high amount of noise in certain echo chambers for an actually high amount of people. Let me guess, you also think that "just as many people" believe there's a good chance Sakura's single detached "gasp" panel in 615 meant she was jealous and having a romantic revelation?

This fandom tends to have very passionate fans for all sorts of things (characters, pairings, clans...), and especially because of this, our coverage needs to be extra careful in calling things as the everyday sane reader would reasonably see them, rather than catering to the ad-hoc rhetoric generated by those groups in response to pretty much everything that happens. If we don't, the page will soon become a clusterf'k debate thread. If two characters have a long look at each others' eyes and then hold hands for 2 chapters, does this imply something? Yes, it probably does. Maybe the author is trolling, or will go back on it later, maybe this initial impression is mistaken, but in the bottom line, yes, it probably does. Please keep the true-believer rhetoric to the tightly-knit circles it came from.
Sienna
04:58:06 PM Feb 12th 2013
edited by Sienna
Man oh man lol. First I want to thank you guys for agreeing to keep it neutral. But uh...

"Is patently false. There are exactly zero people who don't ship Naru Saku (or Naru-something-else) who believe this, "

I ship Naruto with someone else(and before you ask I hate Sasu Naru with a passion) and well I believe it :P. I've also read the opinions of neutral fans, people who hate the big 3, and even Naru Hina fans who don't feel the manga is going in the way YOU think it's going.

"Let me guess, you also think that "just as many people" believe there's a good chance Sakura's single detached "gasp" panel in 615 meant she was jealous and having a romantic revelation?"

No...I've heard plenty of peple assume Shikamaru's dad told her something. Maybe about Tsunade or Yamato(since she studied the first hokage's blood cells). I think that too because Sai is missing too and well...I dunno I think it might be something like that lol.

Seriously...no offense meant but you and Super Saiya Man are sounding kind of arrogant...ever heard of the false consenseous effect? You should look up(and before you accuse me of it NO I'm not claiming everyone thinks the same way I do just that there's a divide between the fandom. Some people believe that Naruto will die with NO pairings resolve(or that he'll stay alive again no pairings))...

EDIT: Also I reaaaaally didn't want to start a fight here so if you could please stop with with the potshots that'd be appreciated thank you.

EDIT 2: Shit sorry I forgot to also say thank YOU Werebazs for being cordial :)!
SuperSaiyaMan
06:06:16 PM Feb 12th 2013
...except we've SEEN the conversation Shikaku gave. It was to his son and Ino solely. Sakura wasn't even shown.

You're just brushing off how Naruto has acted around Hinata this entire arc at this point Sienna and saying that again, like Not Here To Cause Trouble said when characters spend two entire chapters basically together and even holding hands, that's often a big relationship change.

And how is it a 'false consensus'? You're making a lot of assumptions and brushing off what has been characterizing the entire War Arc from Naruto and Hinata's perspective.
NotHereToCauseAnyTrouble
06:48:55 PM Feb 12th 2013
Sienna, I don't know what you're trying to get at. Assuming things about what the author was trying to get across after a chapter like 615 is not "being arrogant" or "relying on false consensus" regarding where "I think the manga is going". It is reading comprehension. I get that pairing debates are like politics and rule #1 is to always have a counterpoint and never ever concede anything, but that's not what we're here for.

You need to see the difference between "well the author seems to be telegraphing X now" and "X is canon in 50 chapters tops bitches". You also need to see the difference between "well that may be but in the end it is a drop in the ocean of considerations, and the future may hold something different", and "AD-HOC COUNTER AD-HOC COUNTER LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". In both cases the first reply is reasonable and the second really isn't.
Sienna
08:14:54 PM Feb 12th 2013
edited by Sienna
I think both of you misunderstood me. I'll try and break it down but first.

"...except we've SEEN the conversation Shikaku gave. It was to his son and Ino solely. Sakura wasn't even shown."

Shikaku had ability to speak to everyone on the field(how do you think they knew what the plan was?). Shikamaru may have been the last person he spoke to but possibly not the only. Also it's just a prediction. Not something I(or anyone else) am claiming as fact.

By 'false consensus' I'm refering to both of you assuming everyone feels the way you do. Super Saiya Man you're arguing that everyone thinks Naru Hina is going to happen because it's SO OBVIOUS when no, not everyone thinks that way(and I'm NOT just talking about Naru Saku fans for pete's sake).

And Not Here To Cause Any Trouble you flat out said "There are exactly zero people who don't ship Naru Saku (or Naru-something-else) who believe this," which is again UNTRUE.

That's what I meant. I don't know to make myself any clearer. I'm not trying to argue with your interpretations/opinions I'm just arguing that NOT everyone sees things the same way and that there other VALID interpretations about what's going on so it's too soon to turn this into a Naru Hina article. That's it.

Now PLEASE stop responding to me :(!
ArcaneAzmadi
topic
04:41:07 AM May 18th 2012
Which trope would be used to highlight the fact that Sasuke has actually been an antagonist for over three times as long as he was a protagonist (he defected from Konoha in chapter 181 and as of the most recent chapter -586- is still an unrepentant bad guy)?
Sienna
05:44:10 PM Feb 11th 2013
Did you ever figure this out?
back to Characters/Naruto-Team7

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