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MikeRosoft
topic
11:36:01 AM Feb 21st 2012
edited by MikeRosoft
Removed (Re:Alicia):
  • Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking: According to the movie, the things that cause Precia to reject Fate as a failure are the facts that when compared to Alicia, Fate developed a different personality, different magical affinities, and wasn't left handed.
    • The last bit can be explained fairly well, though- every time Fate did pretty much anything at all, Precia was reminded that she wasn't Alicia and never would be.
Yes, that's the point: All the three reasons are trivial things, and Precia rejected Fate for the simple reason that Fate wasn't Alicia. (Hence, it's not an example.)
Comartemis
topic
02:13:01 PM Jul 10th 2011
Protip for Akiyoshi: Character pages are for tropes that apply to characters, not tropes that the fans wish applied to the characters. Yuuno has no demonstrated abilities as a Stone Wall, his shields are no stronger than those of Nanoha or Signum or any other main character. It is not character bashing to point out inaccuracies when people try to pass them off as legitimate facts.

Also, take some more English classes. Your grammar is horrible and your spelling isn't much better.
Akiyoshi
04:36:48 PM Jul 12th 2011
I apologize for my english.

I guessed that trope depictions on the characters page must be neutral as possible, demoting Yuuno and "fanon" like that isn't very polite. I know you have your reasons to not believe in his proficiency but examples are indeed showed. Even untrasformed, Nanoha is able to cast perfectly her Round Shield and still have troubles. Yuuno demonstrated more versatility and a bit higher resistance than Nanoha in S1 and before her upgrade in A's, he's even asked to create battlefields strong enough to withstand the power of all the A's cast, only breaking against the simultaneous combined might of the three aces(something that even the rogue defense program failed to do). It's important to give credit to both points of view, otherwise it sounds like just a complaint which is not appropiate for that section.

As a complainer myself, i received the rage of the people who are upset by my commentaries and learn to be more neutral and polite on more "informative" oriented sections like this.
Comartemis
11:12:11 PM Jul 12th 2011
edited by Comartemis
Nanoha has problems defending against one of Vita's attacks while simultaneously trying to block a Swallow Flier with her other hand, which is very different. Yuuno's fans can moan and whine all they like but at the end of the day they have no evidence that his shields are unnaturally strong for a mage of his rank, no scenes they can point to and say "Here, this is where he blocked something super-powerful."

He only ever fought Arf in the first season save for a couple of Jewel Seeds that he helped out with, and Arf likewise doesn't have much in the way of attack magic. Vita wasn't using cartridges, Annihilation Lightning was blocked entirely by Arf's shield, and the two times he's been matched against bombardment magic his barriers (not his shields, his barriers. Different magic types) have failed on both occasions. By all appearances, Fate has better shields than Yuuno does — she's tanked a direct hit from a Divine Buster in both the anime and the movie, movie Fate demonstrated layered shields — something Yuuno has never even been hinted at having — and she and Nanoha together were able to tank Reinforce's Super SLB. Yuuno has no such feats to his name, thus his fans have no grounds to call him a Stone Wall.
Akiyoshi
09:31:44 AM Jul 13th 2011
edited by Akiyoshi
"moan" and "whine" huh? such an impartial response.

Whatever, Arf's shield have complete backup from Yuuno's shield even if it's true that it was the shield facing up, seying that blocking the Ahnilation Lightning was entiresly Arf's feat is an exaggeration. The movie is an entirely different case(and even then Yuuno tanks against giant mechas and used chain binds along with Arf to contain the ocean), but i'll concede you that we don't see Yuuno blocking a Divine Buster yet(even if i think he's perfectly able to do so, even canon has appointed that Fate's defensive magic is a bit lacker than Nanoha's), shields and barrier are both defensive magic.

Last, i wonder what exactly Stone Wall means, it's refering to someone who posses superb defense or to someone who frequently use defensive tactics? I'm asking this because Signum also have that trope on her character list even is she's obviously an offensive type, she sin't by any means a defense specialist and still someone considered her able to hold that trope because she mixes defensive tactics from time to time. So, even if Yuuno didn't have enough onscreen matarial to please your standards of what a Stone Wall is, he still is one by means of his combat method(basically, the boy has no other choice but being a stone wall or die xD).

If you really consider Yuuno undeserving of that trope then i think it's better to have it deleted from his list instead of make insulting commentaries that can upset people. Signum too, you can't be seriously called a Stone Wall if your opponent can slice through your defenses like a hot knife on butter.
Comartemis
10:05:14 AM Jul 13th 2011
edited by Comartemis
Barriers are a type of defense magic, but they're a type that only very rarely is directly attacked so it's difficult to tell how strong Yuuno's barriers are in comparison to other barriers. Reinforce's barrier contained her SLB on top of everything else she was throwing around, despite her SLB being based on Nanoha's barrier-busting SLB Ex. Yuuno's barriers "only ever being broken twice in the series" is useless as a measure of power because those two occasions were the only times they were ever directly attacked. By that measure it's equally true that Yuuno's barriers have folded like a house of cards every time they've come under direct attack and he is in fact pitiful with barriers, though given his mage rank personally I'd give him more credit than that.

Yuuno's tactics fall under the purview of the Barrier Warrior trope seeing as how he has no other capabilities in combat, not ones he's willing to use anyways.

Calling something fanon and saying that a lot of people think it's true is not an insult by any standard, and it's necessary to keep people who believe that fanon from putting Stone Wall back where it doesn't belong. I agree with you on the matter of Signum though; she has exactly one scene where she acts like a Stone Wall, and that's in her first fight with Fate when she tanks a Plasma Lancer. She's not an example of a defensive specialist at all, she just has good shields.
Ramidel
topic
02:09:35 PM Jun 26th 2011
Alright. This particular edit war already happened a couple years ago, and the consensus at the time was that yes, Nanoha counts as a Charles Atlas Superpower as the Linker Core is a muscle in the 'verse. So.

Is there any indication that "ordinary people from Earth don't have Linker Cores," Killomatic? Can you cite a source?
Killomatic
02:51:39 PM Jun 26th 2011
Ramidel
03:28:02 PM Jun 26th 2011
edited by Ramidel
Alright. Your source is invalid (you're citing an unsourced article from Wikia?), but I don't have a better one. My opinion is based on personal analysis of the series; the impression that I get from viewing the series is that mages and humans are not fundamentally different, just that mages are trained to use their potential abilities (and have the natural level of ability to be worth training). I don't recall what evidence was presented in the last argument either.

As this leaves us arguing fanon in a vacuum, I'll drop the argument, unless I find an official source or Word of God.
Killomatic
05:22:00 PM Jun 26th 2011
The source, if it exists, is most likely some untranslated piece of fluff that is impossible to find online, so it wouldn't do us any good even if it was given. Bottom line is, if you aren't sure it's an example, don't add it as an example.
AceOfScarabs
topic
08:01:58 AM May 21st 2011
Fate moves faster than a teleporter? Plausible. Granted, some factors need to be taken into account, such as:

  1. Rate of teleportation possible: If the teleporter is hampered by delays between each move, that will slow them down.
  2. Speed of teleportation: Do they blink instantly, shift quickly, or beam across slowly? Does if happen on-command instantly, or is there a delay before they teleport?
Killomatic
10:22:29 AM May 21st 2011
Are there even any canon sources that say Deville can teleport? If I remember correctly he has one line where he says he thought Fate could teleport. The fact he appears behind people from out of nowhere doesn't mean he can teleport any more than her.
MikeRosoft
11:53:41 AM Feb 3rd 2012
edited by MikeRosoft
Teleportation has a finite speed in Nanoha, as indicated e.g. in StrikerS - when Sein was trying to get away by flying through a wall, Schach teleported to the other side of the wall, visibly overtaking her. Also in A's - Yuuno, Arf, and Shamal teleported the linker core of the corrupted defense program into outer space, and before even getting there, it managed to regenerate itself.

As for Deville's teleportation power, see Short Jump at Nanoha wiki (for what it's worth).
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