Characters Friendship Is Magic-Antagonists Discussion

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01:55:09 PM Jun 7th 2013
So, given the new trailer, where does Sunset Shimmer fit here? Does she belong here at all yet?
01:57:20 PM Jun 7th 2013
Right now, she's over on the Expanded Universe page.

12:22:27 PM Jan 3rd 2013
edited by VVK
More Square Peg Round Trope. Please try to at least read the descriptions of tropes. I removed the following:

Lightning Dust:

- This applies to rulers. If you just read the page rather than just the name...

  • Arrogant Racer/Flyer Mare: Only cares about pushing herself to the limit, with no regard for anyone around her, even her own partner. She also fails to show proper respect to Spitfire, which in real life isn't a smart decision towards a superior officer in the Air Force.

-It doesn't say in the trope anywhere that it applies to other fields besides martial arts. It does say they're friendless loners.

  • Beneath the Mask: Just like Gilda, you'd think she'd be this awesome new friend for Rainbow Dash. When you get down to it, she's a glory-hungry jerk looking out for "numero uno".

-There's no mask. She's openly what she is, even if all of it doesn't come up at once in the story.

  • Bash Sisters: What Spitfire hoped for her and Rainbow Dash to be. While they do dominate the competition, Lightning's attitude, combined with Dash's resentment of being relegated to wingpony, starts to grate on Rainbow's patience, culminating in her quitting after the tornado incident.

-They're not a fighting team and they don't even work in tandem that well, so the connection to this trope is really vague.

  • Friendly Rival: To Rainbow Dash, at least before she starts blowing everyone else off and nearly kills Dash's friends.
    • Rivals Team Up: The two are paired together to compete in later training events.

-Surprisingly for their personalities, there isn't really a single case where they compete with each other rather than play together, so to speak. After the spinning test, for example, both just exult in mutual awesomeness. And when there are feelings of rivalry, when Dash doesn't get made lead pony, those are not so friendly.

-They have the same temperament, that's kind of the point, just with different considerations tempering it. I had the impression this trope was supposed to be about very clear opposite pairings, not just "I will rate everyone on hot-bloodedness on a scale from 1 to 1000, and anyone scoring more than two points higher than another character forms a pair with them."

Seriously. On these pages, there's always so much work put into putting in every possible trope everywhere, but then half of them don't fit. Please check the real definitions of the tropes and then ask yourself whether your examples really fit.
12:39:09 PM Jan 3rd 2013
edited by VVK

-Actually, there is no case when she is in danger of coming in second other than against Rainbow Dash, and she's fine with that. (She may be interpreting it as being better or as good since she took the greater challenge and still did almost as well.) The way the example is written reveals the contradiction: it basically says she'll do anything to avoid coming in second even if she's not about to come in second. Overkill is not avoiding coming in second.

-That's maybe not totally wrong, but I think Foil is better.
12:44:53 PM Jan 3rd 2013
edited by VVK

-She's not a leader of a group. Also, saying "type x" is not a valid way to give an example.
12:48:33 PM Jan 3rd 2013
edited by VVK

-I don't even know where to start arguing against this because there is no explanation why it would apply in the first place. Is it just that every trope related to arrogance has been put here?
12:52:25 PM Jan 3rd 2013
Sorry that I'm kind of losing my patience and getting a little sarcastic here, but it's the same thing every time I look at one of these pages.
03:15:50 AM Jan 13th 2013
I missed a couple last time:

Being better than others at what they can do normally is not a superpower, hence she can't be a Smug Super. Rainbow Dash can be said to have Super Speed because of that sonic rainboom thing, but that doesn't mean others who can keep up with her when she's not in explicitly supersonic mode have it.
09:37:19 AM May 12th 2013
edited by
About the Arrogant flyer girl, yes it does apply to other hobbies and skills other than Kung-Fu, because here is the basic definition of the trope:

"A character with lots of raw power and Pride who thinks he's superior to everyone else."

so she is an example of the trope.
10:08:21 AM Dec 2nd 2012
Should we move Trixie to the Villains section since she went from 'Jerk' to 'Major Threat'?
12:39:37 PM Jan 3rd 2013
Nah, since it was temporary.
06:38:59 PM Nov 28th 2012
The widespread assumption that Flim and Flam built their machine is probably wrong. Neither of them describes himself as an inventor. Instead they boast that their Special Talent is being salesmen Doesn't it make more sense to assume that they simply traded for the machine or won it in one of their wagers and somewhere out there there's a disgruntled inventor who got very little in return for the product of years of work?
03:21:24 AM Jan 13th 2013
That doesn't sound right to me, but there's really no evidence either way.
09:10:25 PM Nov 26th 2012
So people have been putting Generic Doomsday Villain in YMMV pages when talking about King Sombra. I'm aware that Sombra is divisive, but only YMMV tropes go on the YMMV pages. Doesn't matter how divisive it is. So we need to talk it out and decide whether or not Sombra truly qualifies.

My two cents? He qualifies. He is given no motive for his actions beyond "he's evil". Come to think of it, I don't think they ever mentioned what he made his slaves do. For comparison, all the other major villains are given motives for their actions: Nightmare Moon was driven crazy by jealousy, Discord does it for the lulz, and Chrysalis does it out of a combination of a need to survive and a genuine love of conquering. Yes, it is true that Sombra is still a threat, but the trope page for Generic Doomsday Villain makes it pretty clear that doesn't matter. You can be a competent threat and still be a Generic Doomsday Villain.

Any other thoughts? I am aware this is a divisive issue, so this really needs to be talked out.
03:24:56 AM Jan 13th 2013
You are correct. The trope fits. There doesn't seem to be any real reason for this to be a divisive issue. Maybe people have been forgetting that Tropes Are Tools.
11:25:19 AM Nov 24th 2012
Considering Babs Seed is a bully, albeit for the only episode she appears in, should she be included on this list and have other pages link to this one, or vice versa?
08:26:18 PM Nov 24th 2012
Probably. Most of her screen time was her making the CMC miserable.
02:04:26 AM Nov 11th 2012
So can we maybe get a better picture of King Sombra on the page now that the episodes have actually aired? I found a good one here [1] , but I could never figure out how to post images onto trope pages. If anyone else wants to go ahead and take care of this, please feel free.
04:19:24 PM Nov 10th 2012
It seems Trixie has disappeared. Huh.
07:41:28 PM Nov 10th 2012
There are two Sports Pegasi folders, and it looks like part of Trixie's entry was merged with the jocks.

Did someone botch an edit?
09:21:29 AM Nov 10th 2012
Do we really need to call every major villain after Nightmare Moon a Knight of Cerebus?
09:24:06 AM Nov 10th 2012
Personally, I don't think so.
08:25:52 PM Nov 24th 2012
Given how serious the show tends to get whenever a major baddies shows up, we might as well put it under "tropes associated with all villains".
08:00:42 AM Oct 12th 2012
I have to question the inclusion of King Somber so early. There just isn't enough tropes about him yet and I have to even say that although the leaked villain is most likely him, we still haven't completely confirmed it. I'd say wait until season 3 starts before putting anything.
11:22:30 AM Oct 12th 2012
edited by NiceTryGuy
The clip pretty much confirms that the MC is King Somber (same eyes) and that he’s a baddie. So I think moving him to the bad guy section is alright.

If we are wrong and it turns out that he isn’t King Somber or actually a good guy we can easily correct our mistakes and/or put him into another section.

12:02:00 PM Oct 12th 2012
edited by AkoSiKuya32
Just saw the HD clip and yeah, it's pretty much him (The lower quality clips made his eyes look more yellowish and I didn't see the purple aura coming out of his eyes). Regardless, I still think it's too early to place him in the character page. He doesn't have enough tropes yet and I'd wait until we can get a good screenshot or vector of him. For now, I think we should relocate his current tropes to the Crystal Empire page until he makes his debut.
12:50:44 PM Oct 12th 2012
The King Somber entry isn’t a new one. As soon as the first picture of him showed up on the HUB website, someone created an entry from him in the Canon Foreigners section. It’s not that strange considering that there are entries for toys, the spiders on one of the comic cover and a non-sentient rock. ^^

All I did was changing his name as soon as it was “confirmed” that he’s King Somber and then someone else moved him to the Antagonists.
10:17:55 PM Jul 18th 2012

  • Batman Gambit: It's heavily implied that her taunting Twilight in the caves was one to get her angry enough to kill Cadance. Thankfully, Cadance managed to prove she was the real one and Twilight was level-headed enough to let her.

While it's a popular guess, there's no actual implication in the show that Chrysalis wanted that to happen. It's at least as likely that it was just a coincidence.
08:12:01 PM Jun 22nd 2012
Is there a reason the picture for Discord keeps going back and forth between a show-accurate vector and a screencap with colors that look a little off?
07:12:41 AM May 5th 2012
Before any edit wars can begin, I would like to point out that a user that I will not name for now is posting V As for the "Sports Pegasi" characters without any attached, reliable sources of any sort. Any suggestions as to what should be done about this?
11:23:00 AM May 5th 2012
edited by Starbuck101
What should be done? Research.

Look up the actors on their websites and listen to their voice work in other stuff before playing the "vandalism" card, when you don't get your way.

No offence, but I've looked at the submition for the Sports Pegasi actors, and the actor given for Dumbell was in fact the corrct one. I, being a huge Ranma ˝ fan, know Richard Cox's voice when I hear it. When you've been watching cartoons/anime where the voices are all done by the same group, you develop an ear for these things. In Sonic Rainboom, it was Richard Ian Cox voicing the dumbell pegasus. Cox has a reasonably well known voice in the voice acting industry, so an official source isn't necessary in this case. Just watch some of the other stuff he's been in. Ranma ˝ (title character), InuYasha (title character) or X-Men: Evolution (Pietro). Now, I can't vouch for Kathleen Barr as Hoops, as I didn't watch Ed, Edd n Eddy that much, but It should be noted that both of the sports Pegasi who speak, have different actors in the flashback in Cutie Mark Chronicles (Brian Drummond for Dumbell and Terry Klassen for Hoops).

EDIT: Okay, I've done some research and found this web page. Kathleen Barr's Behind The Voice Actors page. It has voice clips of many of the characters she's voiced, including Hoops. Upon comparing the voice, yes, it is the same as Kevin from Ed, Edd n Eddy.

So I say, put them back in.
07:48:00 AM May 6th 2012
I've just taken a look at that BBVA site and found Richard Ian Cox' page, also possessing a number of voice clips, for comparrison. He also does a pop cast on his official website.

If we're in agreement, then I also vote that we put the actor credits back in.
01:21:36 PM May 6th 2012
Well that's funny, because comparing Billy's voice clip on the site to the clips on Richard's page, Billy's voice is notably higher-pitched and has a hint of a lisp that Richard doesn't evidently have; it's much more comparable to the other clips on Sam Vincent's page. Either way, one's own personal ears just aren't as reliable as an actor's Facebook/Twitter page or an official interview. And with so much misinformation concerning V As already (mainly in the form of IMDb), it's simply safer if we just leave all unofficially credited characters uncredited until an official source or sources pop up.
01:30:25 PM May 6th 2012
Oh, and since you're all so reliant on your own intuitions, let me remind you of all the MLP credits on IMDb that have been proven false thus far: Emilie Claire Barlow as Cheerilee (turned out to be Nicole Oliver), Tabitha St. Germain as Zecora (turned out to be Brenda M. Crichlow), Peter New as Hoity Toity (denied by Peter New himself) and Ashleigh Ball as Little Strong Heart (turned out to be Erin Mathews) and Chris Rager as Iron Will (denied by Chris Rager himself). Since IMDb's data is user submitted, where do you think their "data" comes from? Oh, right, from their unreliable ears. From now on, unless a VA or crew member of the show out-and-out says who voiced who, we should just keep our speculations to ourselves.
01:37:32 PM May 6th 2012
Dumbell doesn't sound anything like Sam Vincent. Go back and listen to the Dumbell clip again. Then listen to the one for Sails, on Cox's page and the ones for Ranma Saotome, Quicksilver and Bit Cloud. And I mean really listen to them. Several times over, if need be. I'm standing by the fact that it was Cox.
01:47:53 PM May 6th 2012
I'm sorry, but I just don't hear the supposed similarity between Billy and Richard. And without any official source, it doesn't matter whether we think that Richard or Sam voiced him because we may as well both be wrong.
02:00:43 PM May 6th 2012
I'm relying on my own intuition, because, it's right. Did we need an official sourse for Trixie? No. Is there a sourse for Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon? Doesn't look like it. Scott Mc Neil for one of the Diamond Dogs? Nope.

Besides, you yourself seemed pretty sure of your own intuition. Why was it okay for you, but not others?

02:09:50 PM May 6th 2012
We only know that Shannon was Silver Spoon because she confirmed as much when she revealed that she was recording for the third season, but that's beside the point.

I now recognize that it is not only wrong but downright egotistical to be completely reliant on one's own intuition in terms of figuring out V As for shows that don't give them proper credit. That's exactly why I changed my stance to leaving the characters uncredited until an official source surfaces. If any info we gather up from our ears turns out to be false, I'd rather it'd not be up at all.
02:29:58 PM May 6th 2012
edited by Truro
The reason this is a public wiki, is that anyone can edit it. It's not your personal property. If it's wrong, someone can just fix it. Did you read the homepage? "We are not a stuffy encyclopedic wiki."

But if you only want to acknowlage talent if they tell you themselves, then feel free to ask them. They have fanmail addresses, so go ahead and ask them yourself.
03:12:19 PM May 6th 2012
I sent a message to Richard Ian Cox's Facebook page in an attempt to figure this out. But free-to-edit wiki or not, I'm still opposed to allowing further contribution to the widespread misinformation surrounding VA roles on the internet. Until we get some sort of response from Richard, we should hold off on crediting the characters for now.
11:31:06 PM May 7th 2012
12:43:26 AM May 8th 2012
He sounded rather unsure in his reply, but I suppose that's the closest we're going to get to a confirmation. I do however think that it's a bit irresponsible as a voice actor to not remember what characters he played, but I digress.
12:55:46 AM May 8th 2012
To be fair to him, the recording session for that episode was years ago, and Dumbell was only a minor character, who apparently didn't even have a name in the script. Hell, John de Lancie didn't remember voicing Discord when Return Of Harmony aired.

Anyway, if you are satisfied, I vote that the voice credit be put back in.
10:20:22 AM May 8th 2012
It probably would've been better if you had directed him to Billy's entire voice clip on Bt VA rather than one measly line on YouTube. Regardless, if you want to put the credit back in, go ahead. On a side note, I'm rather miffed that he replied to your message instead of the one that I sent earlier :/
12:19:04 PM Feb 16th 2012
Anyone else think the Parasprites should get their own section?
04:14:40 PM Feb 16th 2012
Not really. They're just like the other monsters of the Everfree forest they're less like actual characters and more like a force that moves the plot along.
11:00:51 PM Feb 4th 2012
So... where might Ahuizotl fit in, being a fictional villan in-universe?
01:16:49 PM Feb 5th 2012
He's already listed in the Celebrities page.
07:24:35 PM Feb 5th 2012
Cool, thanks!
06:51:14 AM Nov 26th 2011
Lulamoon is a completely different pony who bares little to no resemblance with Trixie, just a shared cutie mark. Besides, Hasbro has gotten toy names for characters wrong before. I thought we were using show names always?
09:14:44 AM Nov 26th 2011
We are, and that's final. Background ponies are an exception cause most of them don't have names, but most fans ignore the toys anyways.
10:17:24 AM Nov 26th 2011
They've got pretty much the same coat color, the same eye color, and the same Cutie Mark. "Lulamoon" at least falls into the same category as "Selena" (Luna's name in the Novelization of the pilot episodes).
10:26:57 AM Nov 26th 2011
Selena was what Luna was going to be called, but was changed. Why it was kept in the story book we don't know, and there isn't any Word of God saying Lulamoon is Trixie's original name.

Have you read the story book, by the way? Nightmare Moon is shown once, and I forget if Luna appears at all. You keep saying Novelization like its an Expanded Universe novel when its not.
11:16:47 AM Nov 26th 2011
It doesn't matter that Selena is Luna's original name; what matters is that she's actually called Selena in official materials, whether in The Merch or in a Novelization—which I have read, and it's a direct Compressed Adaptation, not part of the Expanded Universe, but it still counts; if it had given a name to an unnamed pony (such as the Mayor or an unnamed background pony), that name would be on more or less the same level as most of the names from the toys.

And for the record, the latter two of Trixie's three appearances have been as a non-speaking generic background pony (in "Bridle Gossip" and "The Return of Harmony Part 1"), complete with clones and no Cutie Mark—if it wasn't for the fact that the two episodes use the same shot, one could say that she was actually Demoted to Extra.
08:23:37 PM Nov 6th 2011
edited by AkoSiKuya32
Anyone think the Sports Trio should be moved here? I mean, if Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon are here, I think they too deserve to be here. Moreso now that the page is split between Reality Warpers and just plain old jerks and that the minor character page is no longer categorized by place since the only real argument for them to stay there was because someone was needed for the Cloudsdale folder.
12:25:38 AM Nov 4th 2011
Discord: A flash of light involved in the use of magic is about the most generic thing there could be. (Also, it's apparently a reference to Q here, though that's not something I'd know about.) So I don't think that needs to be covered by any "using the powers of holy light even though he's evil" tropes here.
12:16:34 AM Nov 4th 2011
edited by Captainhook
Come on, Trixie isn't any kind of Bad A**. She's helpless as soon as she's supposed to do something other than be creatively mean. It's even the point of the plot.
05:51:36 PM Nov 9th 2011
Unicorns are bada** by default. They are unquestionably the most powerful of all the ponies. And they are adorable.
12:27:20 AM Dec 6th 2011
edited by VVK
"Badass is an adjective used to describe a character who gets away with outright insane stunts (defusing a bomb with their teeth, conning a mob boss, getting into a firefight with the entire army, etc.) that would be VERY hard to pull off in real life, or would get the person trying it killed several times over. A Badass is a fantasy figure whom the audience roots for precisely because of how prone they are to awesome moments, to the point where they stretch or break the Willing Suspension of Disbelief."

Of course, magic is impossible to pull off in real life, but that's hardly what this means. It doesn't say anywhere that "Anyone above Super Weight class 1 is automatically badass." Twilight Sparkle only barely counts as Badass Adorable (if at all), Trixie certainly doesn't. I'd like to see someone pull off being badass and Miles Gloriosus at the same time. (The closest I can think of is Ciaphas Cain, and he fails at being Miles Gloriosus.)

I can see the point of wanting to apply this trope, depending on emphasis it seems to fit, but it just doesn't hold up on closer examination. I might like to put it there too, depending on how annoyed I'm feeling with Trixie at the moment, but I can't justify it.

(Also, I'm not sure unicorns are more powerful than pegasi, or at least that they are much more so. Just look at Rainbow Dash and Twilight Sparkle. But that's a whole other discussion.)
01:01:33 PM Oct 13th 2011
I'm finding myself removing a lot of tropes here that don't apply... If someone would like to argue, go ahead, but it seems to me going to the trope page and figuring out what the trope is really about (which I admit is sometimes difficult, especially at a glance) should suffice to see why they don't apply.
01:15:39 PM Oct 13th 2011
And to clarify the edit reason about Beyond the Impossible, I looked at the page and then still didn't know what it was about, but I got enough out of it to see it very probably couldn't be said to apply here by any reasoning.
02:15:06 PM Sep 29th 2011
Should Blueblood be identified as an antagonist rather than a Cele-Brony? I think he should be. Since he causes all of the conflict during Rarity's portion of the Gala, and him being overcome is the climax of that particular segment.
02:16:03 PM Sep 29th 2011
No. And if you want to discuss it, discuss it, don't edit-war revert the change and then start to discuss it.
02:17:43 PM Sep 29th 2011
I don't think Blueblood counts as the antagonist in that session. He's kind of obnoxious, but Rarity just could of left, eh? She didn't need to hang around with him.
02:19:42 PM Sep 29th 2011
I think he still counts under the wider definition of someone who creates conflict by opposing the protagonist. Just because he's oblivious to the fact doesn't mean that he doesn't create conflict in his interactions with Rarity.
02:19:49 PM Sep 29th 2011
edited by gingerninja666
When you look at what an antagonist is supposed to do, he fits EVERY category, some even better than Trixie
02:24:15 PM Sep 29th 2011
An antagonist creates conflict for the main character(s), whether or not the characters or in some cases the antagonists themselves are aware of it. While it's true he was there to illustrate how off Rarity's expectations were, he was still a source of conflict for her portion of the episode. So in that sense, he is at the very least a somewhat antagonistic figure.
02:33:46 PM Sep 29th 2011
edited by DarkSasami
All of the conflict was created by Rarity. The antagonist of the entire episode, in fact, was the ponies' unreasonable expectations. It's pretty much a classic Man Vs. Self conflict.

If you put Blueblood here, you'll also have to include the Wonderbolts, the entire line of ponies waiting to shake hooves with Celestia, all the ponies in the ballroom, all the creatures in the garden, and Pony Joe for refusing to give Spike another donut.
04:50:10 PM Sep 29th 2011
As the above says, Blueblood isn't the antagonist here. The antagonist is their own expectations. Blueblood's just a Jerkass who serves to underline Rarity's personal expectations being unreasonable.
05:16:02 PM Sep 29th 2011
I personally think he belongs more on the Celebronies page than here... But I suppose its worth discussing who exactly does belong on this page. This is an odd show where our "villains" range from elementary school bullies to an Affably Evil Reality Warper.

As per The Antagonist page, an antagonist "exists for the purpose of opposing the efforts of the Protagonist". Does Blueblood really fit this role so far in the series? In a sense Photo Finish could also count as an Antagonist, but that takes another pony off the Celebronies page and she already fits nicely in the Fashion Ponies category over there.

Perhaps we should consider some reorganizing. Thoughts?
05:26:07 PM Sep 29th 2011
edited by TheRoguePenguin
Fluttershy's own feelings are the antagonist in that instance. Photo Finish, in the context of the larger picture, is merely the setting. At worst, Blueblood just needs to go on the minor character page instead of being a celebrity.
05:55:44 PM Nov 9th 2011
Come to think of it, should Trixie even be considered an antagonist? She didn't really do much protagonist-opposing beyond embarrassing them once.
12:24:32 PM Apr 11th 2012
edited by RK_Striker_JK_5
Didn't the Mane Cast antagonize her during her show?
03:18:11 PM Apr 11th 2012
No. They simply said she shouldn't be so full of herself. Trixie then pretty much called them up to the stage so she could upstage them in front of everyone.

Seriously, what's with all the DILP-ing lately?
03:25:58 PM Apr 11th 2012
Trixie's an antagonist, but there's no shortage of jerkish behavior to go around in that episode, between both her and the Mane Cast. Trixie didn't even notice them until Rainbow Dash started booing.
03:28:45 PM Apr 11th 2012
Booing =/= humiliating others in some pretty nasty ways. Seriously Pete, all of your edits related to this show lately have been demonizing the cast to make them seem worse than they actually are. WTF man? Do you just hate the show all of a sudden?
04:51:19 PM Apr 11th 2012
edited by Peteman
For Trixie's show: they didn't have to be there. They weren't obligated to stay and they didn't appear to have had to pay. They could have left. Instead, they opted to interrupt the show and ignore the fact that out of all the ponies who were in attendance, they were the only ones unhappy. So, I'm not unhappy with them for booing Trixie, I'm unhappy with them for ignoring the rest of the attendees.

Also, I'm not demonizing the cast. But they have done a lot of crap that shouldn't be overlooked, because otherwise we'd get deep into Protagonist-Centered Morality. As well, I'm pointing out the Easily Forgiven nature of the show and the viewers' overreactions. I can't bring myself to genuinely hate the jerk villains for behavior that has been matched or exceeded by the Mane Cast (Make Fluttershy cry? IRREDEEMABLE MONSTER!! Nearly get her killed several times? Her oldest friend). Alternatively, I'm combating Trope Decay for Moral Event Horizon and Complete Monster because for all the bad behavior that goes on, it doesn't exactly reach the level murder/torture/rape/dehumanization.

I've defended the town for reacting the way they did against the CMC because the wounds of exposed secrets and outright defamation are still fresh in their minds. Tropers were treating the town as though they formed an unruly mob and went after them and chased them to the ends of the Earth. I've pointed out that the town has gotten over worse problems perpetrated by members of the Mane Cast and the CMC and others (I'm looking at you Snips and Snails) than some gossip and there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't let this go too after they've cooled down. It's not mature, but it's not unreasonable.

If you're talking about my Fridge Brilliance counterargument to "Applejack would have confessed because she's the Element of Honesty", I'm pointing out that the argument doesn't hold up because the other characters engaged in behavior that would run contrary to their Elements, so why should Applejack be seen as any different? And then when someone said "they don't always act in accordance with their Elements", I have to point out that by that logic, Applejack is not beholden to act in accordance with hers all the time either, thereby making the initial Fridge Brilliance claim not hold up under scrutiny even more (I tend to hate the overuse of Fridge Brilliance, especially when it's either spelled out in the series or is riddled with logical holes like this argument was).

If you're talking about my "Pinkie is a racist" comment, I was jokingly pointing out the logical extension of the Fridge Brilliance claim of "Why would Pinkie suspect the griffon more than the others"?

If you're talking about my Sweet And Elite edit to Dude, Where's My Respect?, well, Rarity never actually says anything about her friends' actual accomplishments (and IIRC, never mentions the names of her friends except for Rainbow Dash), so I'm offering a possible reason why she doesn't say anything ("Yes, my friend Rainbow Dash saved the lives of the Wonderbolts at the Young Fliers' Competition last year, and I'm the idiot who put their lives in danger in the first place" kinda sounds like something you'd want to keep to yourself). I'm guessing if the identities of the Elements of Harmony are not known to the public, it might explain why nopony knows who they are. Meanwhile, if they don't know who they are, then the Mane Cast just come across as random obnoxious party crashers and therefor, to them, deserve to be looked down upon.
05:13:38 PM Apr 11th 2012
In Applejack's defense, she's the one who upholds her element the best. Even when she lies, she's not particularly good at it (looking at her in 'Party of One').

I think that might have something to do with how she was raised, but that's Wild Mass Guessing.
05:14:46 PM Apr 11th 2012
Hmm...I guess those are all good points. Look, I like Trixie myself. Hell, she actually has a major role in a fic I'm co-writing with a friend, but she was definitely at fault once she started humiliating ponies (though, I suppose they did start it), and, countering a point made by RK, the only reason she fought the Ursa was because Snips and Snails quite literally forced her into the spotlight. She clearly had misgivings, but she was being pressured. I suppose we'll just have to chalk it up towards "both sides could have handled it better".

And sorry for coming off as a jerk. The recent string of various posters (who shall remain nameless) demonizing and overdramatizing the cast's actions have left me a bit testy.
05:39:48 PM Apr 11th 2012
@ sniperfish: True, but then the argument should have used that claim instead of making the blanket "Element" justification, due to how poorly the others lived up to their Elements in that episode. But by that point, it really shouldn't have been placed in Fridge Brilliance at all.

@ Some New Guy: No prob. It really was a matter of neither of them having any sort of moral high ground in this case, which I fully acknowledge. It was just that the Mane Cast's own bad behavior was being left out, so I opted to add it.
09:52:09 PM May 13th 2012
Trixie could have easily fled Ponyville at that point, ignoring those two. She knew she had no chance against it but tried something against it, which is more than Applejack, Dash and rarity could say.
06:02:20 AM May 14th 2012
Except that those three weren't even involved with the Ursa until after Twilight had driven it off and exposed Trixie as the arrogant, blowhard fraud she was.

Again though, I do NOT hate Trixie. I feel she has a good shot at redemption, which has been shown in many fanfics such as The Greatest Gift and Pony POV Series. Heck, in that fic I mentioned I'm cowriting with a friend, she's Twilight's Long Lost Sibling!
10:07:12 PM Jul 19th 2012
Yeah, they weren't involved. They literally stood there shivering in fright while Twilight stepped up to the plate to solve the problem Snips and Snails engendered. I mean they were literally shaking and doing nothing while the Ursa was there. As for being forced into the 'spotlight', she had two easy avenues of escape open to her Or she could've done nothing. Instead, she tried, knowing she had no chance against it but doing something. Which again, none of her hecklers did.

And for all of it, she loses her wagon and everything inside. Massively Disproportionate Retribution directed to her for putting hecklers in their place and the Ursa tale.

And that's what it boils down to for me. The mane Cast literally starts it with Trixie, heckling her show. Is it demonizing them? No, it's the truth. "Magic, schmagic, boo!" They could've just turned and walked off. They had no obligation to stay.

I'm sorry, but the more I see the episode the more Trixie is the target of Protagonist-Centered Morality here. Why were they in the right to boo her? Simple answer, they weren't. She's a showmare either trying to make a living or putting on a free show.
11:54:32 PM Sep 26th 2011
Can we stop using Mind Rape in Discord's tropes? A real Mind Rape is FAR more serious than what he does! (as in, lock-yourself-in-the-shower-for-2-days-and-scrub-your-skin-off serious)
11:32:06 PM Sep 26th 2011
edited by theodrixx
Edit: never mind
01:52:45 AM Sep 20th 2011
edited by VVK
And again, Discord, Outside-Context Villain: If it weren't for Celestia, maybe, but "didn't see his escape coming" isn't enough. She knows him all right. He used to be the context. From the trope article: "When they arrive, the heroes won't have any defenses in place capable of stopping them, no idea how to defend against their onslaught, and no clue what their end goal might be." None of this is true here, except in the sense that the defences were removed, which isn't the same thing as having nothing to begin with.
01:45:25 AM Sep 20th 2011
edited by VVK
Discord, The Dreaded: Not. Discord's primary characteristic is not by any means that he's feared. Almost nobody even knows about him. Rainbow Dash calls him dopey and challenges him to a fistfight. Princess Celestia shows worry knowing he's escaped, but angrily demands him to show himself later in a defiant, powerful posture. Pinkie Pie enters a conversation with him, more bothered by the laughing balloons. He's dangerous and must be taken seriously, but he does not inspire fear in everyone all the time.
01:36:45 AM Sep 20th 2011
edited by VVK
I disagree that it's reasonable to just state that Discord's species name is probably meant to be "Draconequus". It isn't pronounced like that and, as some self-made natter is already pointing out, the reasoning behind the "dragon horse" thing is pretty weak, since he's got a lot more parts than that. Might almost as well say it must come from "aquila" since he has an eagle claw (and the "aqui-" part is actually there, unlike the "equus" outside speculation). Also, is this something being ignored, or is it some actual fact of Latin usage that compound words get an extra n in the middle? Because if it's not, "Draconequus" isn't literally "dragon horse" either, as that would be "dracoequus". And honestly, "dragon horse" would be a pretty silly name for a chimera like that. I contest the notion that "it fits".

Also, a common fan spelling is hardly as likely to be true as those stated by official sources. Well, except if this dragonhorse thing were obvious, but it's not.

I'm going to go revert it back to discussing different options, partly because otherwise people might not even notice there's a discussion about it, but I can mention that in the edit reason. I have no intention to go on edit warring, of course. It should be decided here.
05:28:21 PM Sep 20th 2011
Addressed by Lauren on her DA, so the point is moot. The link is in the page now.
11:09:28 PM Sep 20th 2011
edited by VVK
That's good, then. Still a silly name.
06:24:40 PM Sep 19th 2011
This page is superfluous now that the main characters page is unlocked. I vote for getting rid of it.
07:58:47 PM Sep 19th 2011
Never mind. I didn't know we were splitting up the character page.
11:00:45 PM Sep 17th 2011
I was wondering what happened to the Actor Allusion trope for Discord.
08:02:15 AM Sep 26th 2011
Considering what we learned about the inspiration for Discord from the Theissen interview, I'd say he should most likely be considered an Expy of Q, that was later turned into an Actor Allusion by them actually getting the actor for Q to play him.
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