Characters Bleach Karakura Town Residents Discussion

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Arawn999
Topic
11:00:35 AM Nov 5th 2015
edited by Arawn999
In regards to the removed What the Hell, Hero? trope example in Tatsuki's section,note  I don't see how it's shoehorning. The gist of the trope, as summarized in the laconic section, is "The hero gets called out on acting unheroically." which is what Tatsuki was doing to Ichigo. Tropes Are Flexible, are they not? The example could probably be reworded, but I don't see how it doesn't count.

Larkmarn
11:12:02 AM Nov 5th 2015
From the description it seems perfectly valid.
Wyldchyld
04:07:16 PM Jan 2nd 2016
Sorry about not responding sooner. I had no idea until just now that this had been opened on the Discussion Page.

The trope calls the hero out for doing something unheroic, or something that goes against what they should be standing/fighting for. The example I removed was:

  • What the Hell, Hero?: During the Arrancar Arc, Tatsuki confronted Ichigo about what'd happened to Orihime. Ichigo pretended he didn't know what she was talking about, until she told him she knew about his Soul Reaper powers and the Hollows he'd been fighting, and said she wanted a straight answer. Instead, Ichigo told her to mind her business. Tatsuki's patience ran out, so she punched him through a window, head first, then chewed him out royally.

At this point, Ichigo had absolutely no idea how much Tatsuki could see of the Spirit World. She'd kept her mouth shut until this confrontation. When Tatsuki initially asked what had happened to Orihime, Ichigo therefore thought he was dealing with someone who had no exposure whatsoever to spirits or the spiritual world. When she explained to him that she knew he was a shinigami and that she could figure out that Orihime was in some kind of spiritual trouble, Ichigo was still dealing with a person who had no spiritual abilities to contribute to Orihime's rescue without getting badly injured or killed. At this point, even the established spiritual fighters were struggling to win fights.

So Ichigo told her to mind her own business to protect her. She's therefore the one who pushed Ichigo's head through a window, so any "what the hell" moment should be directed at Tatsuki, not Ichigo. Tatsuki is a side character, however. She is not one of the heroes. Her behaviour is worthy of being called out (and Mizuiro and Keigo did just that), but she can't exactly be classified as one of the heroes of the story for a hero trope to be applied to her.

That's why I thought it was shoehorning.
Arawn999
Topic
01:40:51 PM Oct 1st 2015
This entry has been deleted from and re-added to Tatsuki's section a few times:

  • Shipper on Deck: Early in the manga she was shown encouraging Orihime to be more romantically assertive towards Ichigo.

Larkmarn
01:56:57 PM Oct 1st 2015
Pretty sure it applies. My memory's a bit foggy on things that long ago, but I'm pretty sure she was trying to get Orihime to be more assertive.
Arawn999
01:58:26 PM Oct 1st 2015
edited by Arawn999
She was, to the point of almost invoking Double Standard: Rape, Female on Male. However, vl0gggg doesn't think it counts and wasn't happy when Wyldchyld re-added it, so I figured I'd move the issue here for discussion.
Wyldchyld
03:45:58 PM Oct 1st 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
vl0gggg appears to be a new poster so may not realise they should have pulled the example to the Discussion Page instead of removing it again, especially without an edit reason.

The scene it references is this: Orihime encounters Ichigo and Rukia after having just been a hit-and-run victim. Ichigo offers to walk her home. She's so flustered she instinctively rejects the offer and goes home alone. When Tatsuki hears about it, she starts lecturing Orihime on ways to aggressively bag Ichigo. This flusters Orihime. As Arawn says, this is a 'it's funny if it's female on male' scenario.

I remember some wank about this trope in the past that may have earned a slap from a mod at some stage, but I've only ever heard of one troper kicking up a fuss about it. Whatever decision is made about this trope needs to stick so it doesn't keep raising its head.
Arawn999
03:49:22 PM Oct 1st 2015
I personally don't see why it doesn't count.
Wyldchyld
03:54:35 PM Oct 1st 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
Well, looking at the page history, the troper who had an issue with it before kept using the excuse that it's the only solid example of Tatsuki shipping them that the manga's shown us. So, do we trope a single event? I think that's a fair question to answer, especially if that'll solve the periodic Edit War this entry generates.
Arawn999
03:57:22 PM Oct 1st 2015
Hmm... even if it's a single event, that shouldn't disqualify it. It still happened, after all. However, it probably wouldn't hurt to see if there are additional examples in the manga or anime.
Larkmarn
11:57:32 AM Oct 2nd 2015
edited by Larkmarn
If it's a single event, I don't think it should get put onto the character page if it's not a major part of Tatsuki's character.

That said, it can be put into the work's trope list.

Note: I really do feel like there were more than one instance, but ah well.
Catalyst375
08:21:20 PM Oct 6th 2015
I do not believe there was every such a thing in the manga. That was just a one-off scene from very early in the series.
Arawn999
11:04:55 PM Oct 6th 2015
^ Isn't that a statement a little contradictory? Early in the manga, Tatsuki was supportive of Orihime being more assertive towards Ichigo. It may only have happened once and never been brought up since, but it still happened.
Wyldchyld
06:06:42 PM Oct 7th 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
It definitely did happen in the manga. People encouraging Orihime over Ichigo, or putting her into Ichigo-ship positions, or other similar scenes do occur periodically within the manga, but it seems to involve different characters. We've seen it crop up indirectly with Ichigo's sisters, Uryuu and Nel, or very directly with Tatsuki, random Soul Society residents, Yoruichi, Urahara and Chad.

On the basis of only a casual flick through the manga, I can't find more than one scene involving Tatsuki specifically. It's a long manga, however, so I might have missed something.
Arawn999
10:57:36 AM Nov 5th 2015
edited by Arawn999
Yeah, it was only once at the beginning of the manga that she outwardly expresses support of Orihime hooking up with Ichigo, but I'm still of the opinion that it counts as an example. Shipper on Deck is an in-universe trope, and it seems to have been removed to the mistaken assumption that it was a YMMV trope like the rest of the Shipping Tropes. Also, if we cut an example based on it only happening once, then a lot of things are going to have to be removed, not just on this page but everywhere on TV Tropes.

For example, if this precedent is set I could make the argument that Orihime only used her Attack Reflector power once and it hasn't come up since, so it's not worth mentioning. Since Tatsuki hasn't been the only character who's supported the Orihime X Ichigo ship, why not just relocate it to the main page?
Wyldchyld
04:22:35 PM Jan 2nd 2016
edited by Wyldchyld
I'm happy to move this to the main page. What do you think of this as a rewrite for the main page? These are all single-occurrence events, but do add up to a pattern of characters discussing the possibility of Ichigo and Orihime without addressing whether or not Kubo will actually ever cause such a romance to happen (he's rather famously said he's not writing a romance).

  • Shipper on Deck: The manga periodically has different characters addressing the idea of Ichigo and Orihime. Ichigo's sisters discuss Orihime being more Ichigo's type than Tatsuki. Tatsuki graphically lectures Orihime on how to snare Ichigo. Soul Society residents comment on Orihime's beauty but don't pursue her because they believe she and Ichigo are a couple. Nel lectures Ichigo on how to properly treat Orihime, and Urahara tricks Orihime into wearing a revealing dress that might attract Ichigo. When Chad asks Ichigo what he thinks of Orihime's dress, Ichigo becomes flustered, causing Yoruichi to berate him for not complimenting Orihime's appearance.
Arawn999
06:04:21 PM Jan 2nd 2016
I suppose that works quite well.
Wyldchyld
04:31:24 PM Mar 7th 2016
Apologies, I forgot about this. I've added the agreed entry to the S-page of work tropes.
Wyldchyld
Topic
03:51:20 PM Jul 4th 2014
edited by 2.101.105.198
I reorganised the page purely because, when viewing the page with spoiler tagging on, it looked completely white. Kanae's was terrible, several more were very bad. Since someone reorganised the Vandenreich page recently for similar reasons, I used that style and layout since it seems to work.

I did remove the spoiler tags, but I've put a clear warning at the top of the page and an extra tag under Kanae's folder due to her Walking Spoiler status.

I've put Mizuho and Kaoru into Keigo and Ikumi's folders as they're satellite characters with almost no presence in the story.

I commented out Kon's The Chew Toy entry as it was a Zero-Context Example. Feel free to re-add it with an example attached.
Wyldchyld
Topic
02:29:08 PM Sep 6th 2013
edited by 70.33.253.42
I'd dispute the removal of Mizuiro as an example of Raven Hair, Ivory Skin. Although the description of the trope for western examples does lean in the direction of ghost white skin due to using goths and vampire fads as examples, it also clearly states it's the Asian standard of beauty with examples including the Yamato Nadeshiko characters. The Asian standard of beauty, especially in anime/manga, is not about having deathly white skin (which is why Ulquiorra would never be this trope by the Asian stereotype - he's too pale).

Mizuiro was designed to be the 'Asian standard of beauty' (hence why he's also shorter than many other male characters his age on top of being pale and dark-haired), he exploits it shamelessly.

I did remove all the examples of this trope from Bleach that were misuse, but I left Mizuiro alone because he does fit the Eastern examples for this trope.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Characters.BleachKarakuraTownResidents