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Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
Apr 6th 2016 at 11:09:37 AM •••

The Is This An Example? forum thread has suggested that a meta-trope will rarely be justified, when sub-tropes should suffice. Brought here to try and identify which sub-tropes should apply.

  • Consistency: Rules for the plot and story mechanics can often be revealed as false, hyperbole, or oversimplification. While very few rules are ever bluntly Retconned, Kubo is fond of having story points revealed from a character's point-of-view or understanding, and then to make that character's knowledge flawed or completely wrong. Loopholes are then revealed by Revision as old information is given new context or clarification. Because of this, it's difficult for readers to discern boundaries to these rules. Reason: Already under Unreliable Canon.
    • Early in the series, Uryuu insists that Shinigami and Quincies are completely different and that Quincies only ever use bows because Shinigami don't. It's later made clear that Uryuu doesn't know as much about Quincies as he thought, and that the Ishida family are the only Quincies that insist on using bows. The Vandenreich Quincies use a whole range of weapons, including guns, crossbows and their own fists, and some of them use projectiles that are "arrows" in name only.
    • A major example of this are the rules for how zanpakuotou and their major forms, shikai and bankai, work.
      • Nanao's Zanpakutou is not a part of her individual soul. She was given an Asauchi like all other Shinigami students, but was incapable of bonding with it to produce a Zanpakutou of her own. Her soul was already linked to the Ancestral Weapon that only women of the Ise family can use. It is also not considered the personal property of the Ise woman who wields it, belonging to Soul Society as a sacred weapon.
      • It's possible to hide a Zanpakutou within another Zanpakutou. While the concept of hiding things inside people's souls has been long established, nothing was mentioned about Zanpakutou until it was revealed.
      • Ichigo was originally told that a Zanpakutou only reveals its true abilities (particularly Bankai) once the Shinigami has earned the spirit's respect enough to learn the spirit's True Name. Renji and Ichigo later learn their Zanpakutou were lying to them and that the spirits had not revealed their true names or abilities, which are different to what they've so far been using. The reveal of these lies tie in to Yumichika's well-established situation whereby he knows both a false name and a true name of his own Zanpakutou, enabling him to lie to everyone else about what his Zanpakutou's powers really are.
      • Zanpakutou spirits live within a Shinigami's inner world. A Shinigami of sufficient ability can manifest that Zanpakutou in the real world either unconsciously or deliberately, but there have been no stated cases of Shinigami living along side their manifested Zanpakutou spirit until Nimaiya comes along. Even then, he knows he's living with manifested Zanpakutou Spirits. Kenpachi's eventually revealed to have been living along side his own Zanpakutou spirit for years without ever having realised the truth. Helping this deception was the fact that said spirit aged and could manifest her own zanpakutou (complete with its own release), as well as bleed and receive grave injuries. In the past, we'd seen that Old Man Zangetsu's physical age varied and that he could summon "decoy" zanpakutou at will, but both of those cases were under very different circumstances than Kenpachi's spirit. Outside of filler, though, we'd never seen a manifested zanpakutou spirit become injured in a fight.
      • Kubo once stated in an interview that he imagines it would be difficult for other Shinigami to wield the Zanpakutou of someone else, that a Zanpakutou would be almost weightless for its master, but very heavy for anyone else. In the story itself, Isshin once mentions that all captain-level zanpakutou would be as big as skyscrapers if they reflected their owners' power, which led to some extra assumptions about weight not being an issue. Later, we find out that Soifon's Bankai is too heavy for her to easily wield.
      • Once a Bankai is broken, it can never again regain its full strength because it can never again return to the form it originally had. However, if a Bankai can be remade into something new (such as a Shinigami learning that the Zanpakutou was hiding its true form from him all along), the relationship between the Shinigami and the Zanpakutou can be rebuilt from scratch, and a brand new form, at a brand new level of power, can be created.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading. Hide / Show Replies
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
Apr 6th 2016 at 11:11:31 AM •••

The first paragraph (I've used strike-through on it) has already been repeated under Unreliable Canon, so can be removed from this entry.

In fact, all the other bullet points seem to be covered by Unreliable Canon (which uses the development of zanpakutou knowledge throughout the story as its main example in a few succinct sentences), because all this entire entry is really doing is talking about how a story drip-feeds information as the story unfolds, rather than giving the reader all the information the second the concept is introduced, and that character points-of-view aren't always reliable.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
Apr 6th 2016 at 11:39:49 AM •••

... I don't think Consistency is really supposed to get wicks.

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Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
Apr 6th 2016 at 11:47:25 AM •••

That's why I asked about it on the Is This An Example? forum thread. The Unreliable Canon entry (on the page for U to Z tropes) is below. I'm not sure the first sentence is relevant to the trope, but I think the example overall is much better because it's one of the valid sub-tropes, it covers everything that's mentioned above, and it takes up far less space.

  • Unreliable Canon: Kubo has mentioned in interviews that he creates the overall structure of the story arc in advance, but fine details may be developed as he writes. He rarely Retcons information but a few major Revisions have occured as a result of him introducing plot-relevant information from the points-of-view of the characters explaining them; the accuracy always depends on whether or not the character is well-informed, honest or driven by an agenda. One major example includes how zanpakutou function; the limitations, procedures and details unfold gradually over the course of the story, the reliability of which depends entirely on how much knowledge the character concerned has about zanpakutou. The creator of the zanpakutou lampshades this in-universe by suggesting that very few soul reapers truly understand what zanpakutou are and how they're supposed to function.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
Apr 21st 2016 at 7:29:35 AM •••

I think every thing after "over the course of the story" can be reduced and simplified into:

Edited by KingZeal
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
Apr 21st 2016 at 1:19:19 PM •••

How about this?

  • Unreliable Canon: Kubo has mentioned in interviews that he creates the overall structure of the story arc in advance, but fine details may be developed as he writes. He rarely Retcons information but a few major Revisions have occurred as a result of him introducing plot-relevant information from the points-of-view of the characters explaining them; the accuracy always depends on whether or not the character is well-informed, honest or driven by an agenda. One major example includes how zanpakutou function; the limitations, procedures and details unfold gradually throughout the story, some of which is true, untrue, Metaphorically True, misguided, or subject to either exact wording or important context that requires a separate reveal.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
Apr 21st 2016 at 2:10:46 PM •••

Sorry to nitpick:

"unfold gradually throughout the story" - unnecessary, since the earlier parts of the paragraph already establish this

"or subject to either exact wording or important context that requires a separate reveal" - I would change to "or are subject to exact wording or context which render the previous assumptions moot".

What I think the current write-up lacks is an emphasis on just how unreliable previous canon can be. For instance, dramatic tension and conflict can be built around misunderstood or false rules. Case in point with the current battle, where two separate points of tension were based on rules that had unrevealed sub-rules .

Edited by KingZeal
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
Apr 21st 2016 at 5:00:56 PM •••

Okay, will this do?

  • Unreliable Canon: Kubo has mentioned in interviews that he creates the overall structure of the story arc in advance, but fine details may be developed as he writes. He rarely Retcons information but a few major Revisions have occurred as a result of him introducing plot-relevant information from the points-of-view of the characters explaining them; the accuracy always depends on whether or not the character is well-informed, honest or driven by an agenda. One major example includes how zanpakutou function; the limitations, procedures and details introduced can be true, untrue, Metaphorically True, misguided, or subject to either exact wording or context that render the previous assumptions moot.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
Apr 22nd 2016 at 2:43:14 PM •••

Cool. Added to the U-Z page.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
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