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08:56:40 PM Jun 6th 2014

  • Genre-Busting: A Song of Ice and Fire is not easily settled in a single strain of high fantasy or low fantasy but instead blends and blurs the definitions or divisions between them. The High Fantasy strain of dragons, far away places and exotic people and animals is side-by-side with a world of obsolete medieval customs and court intrigue.

Being somewhere between the extremes of high fantasy and low fantasy is hardly Genre Busting.
02:51:58 AM Dec 5th 2013
edited by
Came Back Wrong: Also from A Dance With Dragons, Between Jamie's description of her as "looking ten years older," a mysterious new wound that she has covered, and her apparently switching sides, Brienne may have gone through a similar resurrection to Catelyn.

I don't recall a "mysterious new wound"; she had a bandaged face from Biter's attack. Her reason for potentially switching sides is explained in her previous chapter, and her "looking ten years older" is probably a figure of speech for someone who's been through a lot (Theon gets described this way constantly. On the other hand, so does Beric.) All in all I don't think this is a clear enough hint to put it on the main page; it could go on WMG though.

(Also seems unlikely given that Martin has suggested he thinks writing Stoneheart was a mistake.)
10:04:59 AM Jun 11th 2013
Fence Painting is listed with no explanation other than that it's "eventually subverted". I can't think what is being referred to here, or if someone had the wrong trope in mind when they wrote it.
11:32:54 AM Jun 11th 2013
It vaguely sounds like an example connected with the Night's Watch- originally the purpose was to defend against the Others and after that, to defend against Wilding invasions. By the time the series starts, the Watch is to a significant extent a Penal Colony- and manning the Wall just gives the conscripts something to do.

Of course, that changes pretty soon...
04:57:20 PM Jun 11th 2013
edited by
I was wondering if it was that. I'm not sure Jon, or anyone else, was deliberately tricked into joining, though — folk songs and Stark historiography make the Night's Watch out to be a noble calling, not NW recruitment propaganda. If anything their "Join the Army," They Said routine could use a lot of work. Ben even warns him that it's not going to be as glorious as he's imagining.
05:28:01 PM Jun 11th 2013
Good point. It wouldn't apply to Jon and of course the conscripts know what they are getting into.

There was a joking Word of God comment that Dolorous Edd joined because Yoren told him that the Watch was a good place to pick up chicks and Edd believed him (probably why he is so Dolorous now).
05:04:50 PM Jun 12th 2013
That's worth adding. I'll put it under Recruiters Always Lie, though.
10:14:04 PM Jan 30th 2013
Pulled this Fatal Flaw entry for discussion:

  • Varys' tendency to underestimate kids which led to Ned Stark's death (he anticipated Littlefinger and Cersei's moves while overlooking Joffrey). He also doesn't see that Aegon VI is just as bad as the other pretenders to the Iron Throne.

Like the Littlefinger Fatal Flaw example I contested above, the problem is is that nothing really bad has happened to Varys yet as a result of his actions, which makes it seem inappropriate for listing with the other examples, wherein there is a clearer cause and effect between flaw and negative outcome for the character.

Also, its really too early to call his Aegon plans a mistake, because despite some despite some negative indications, we don't really know yet what kind of king Aegon would/will turn out to be, nor necessarily Vary's actual motives (if hypothetically, he's acting For the Evulz, then neither of those would be flaws).

RE Ned's death, we actually don't really necessarily know if Littlefinger did plan for Ned to be exiled- it is plausible that he actually planned on Joff executing him and may have even had a hand in influencing Joffrey to take that action.
03:54:13 PM Jan 14th 2013

  • Four Element Ensemble: The gods (by region) seem to fall into this.
    • Fire: R'hllor, the Red God
    • Water: The Drowned God
    • Earth: The nameless gods of the North. A little more subtle about their element until the greenseers are introduced in A Dance With Dragons.
    • Air: Not as clear. Possibly the Seven-Faced God. There's also the Storm God, which is the equivalent of Loki meets Satan to the Ironborn

This is a Square Peg Round Trope. While some of the gods roughly correspond to one of the elements, others don't. There's no real Four Elements motif in the series.
08:18:36 PM Jan 3rd 2013
I pulled this:

I'm guessing the author was thinking of the scene in the tv series, wherein he says the wrong thing to Cersei and she almost has his throat cut. Problem is, this scene is only in the tv series.

In the books, while not everyone likes Littlefinger or his sense of humor, it hasn't lead to any negative consequences yet.
01:53:14 AM Jan 4th 2013
Yeah, he generally seems to judge his audience quite carefully. Unlike, say, Tyrion, he only winds people up when winding them up serves his interests.
12:06:18 AM Jan 5th 2013
It's not just Cersei with him. Paetyr Baelysh has insulted the likes of Brandon Stark, Ned, Cat and Loras. I'm certain he will eventually be killed for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person, or someone he can't negotiate with like a White Walker.
09:53:02 AM Jan 5th 2013
edited by Hodor
Likely, but again, so far he's had no negative consequences from it, since it's hard to call it a fatal flaw (I'd personally guess that what is more likely to do him in his fixation on Cat/Sansa). He was in a duel with Brandon Stark, but that had nothing to do with mouthing off really- he was basically fighting for him over Cat.

I'm not sure of the other examples you listed- he does kind of rub Ned and Cat the wrong way in the book- although not to as great an extent as he does in the tv series, and they still end up trusting him. I can't recall him insulting Loras. Could you remind me of that?
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