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resolved Four Souls of Coyote Namespace Film
I have another question regarding Four Souls of Coyote. I've seen many examples under the Hungarian folder in the Eastern European Animation page listed as "Animation" and only some as "Western Animation". Which do I list a foreign film like "Four Souls" under: "Animation" or "Western Animation"?
openHM:AWL vs SoS:AWL: Do Character/Game Tropes apply to the Remake? Videogame
selphius and I have been working in harmony on the pages for VideoGame.Story Of Seasons A Wonderful Life and VideoGame.Harvest Moon A Wonderful Life, including character pages (This also includes pages for VideoGame.Harvest Moon DS), discussing things back and forth to try and keep things consistent. However something's come up and I feel like community census will help to make sure we're both on the same page with the community, regarding games being in the same universe so facts from one would apply to others.. Forgive me if this is long, I'm trying to be as clear as possible what the issue is.
Explanation: HM:AWL was released first on the GameCube, later followed by HM:DS/DS Cute on the Nintendo DS. In the Japanese version of DS, it's clear that the characters are the descendants of the HM:AWL characters, not them in a remake version—this is helped by the characters having different names. However, Natsume's English translation gave everyone the exact same names, which made everything confusing about it being a sequel. e.g. Celia's descendant 100 years later is also named Celia, and looks almost exactly like her and lives in the exact same place and everything—and because of the same names, DS/DS Cute can appear like a remake, not a sequel.
Now SoS:AWL is out for the Switch, which is a enhanced remake of said GC game with some changes on some characters, but the same overall in story beats and characterization as HM:AWL. So I'm not sure if this game is considered related to the DS Games at all, being a remake, or should be troped like its own separate universe, even though this interview states a relation between them.
My reasoning is that, for example, the Pokemon Games aren't treated as the same game universes—Fire Red/Leaf Green are remakes of Red/Blue, and so are the Let's Go games, in that they have some of the same gyms and story beats. But things from Red/Blue aren't always applicable to FR/LG or Let's Go, and because they're remakes of the old Red/Blue this doesn't make, say, Let's Go connected to Soul Silver. Another example would be how the Final Fantasy Remake is a remake of FF7, but it's not the exact same universe as that game and almost like a different timeline.
The interview is closer to Word of God. There's no confirmation in game that it's related to DS/DS Cute, just items outside the games relating them and what might be some Easter Eggs. So mentioning that, say, Witch Princess is in DS/Cute and stated there she's lived in the valley for 100s of years doesn't 100% confirm she's in the Switch game.
Can y'all help us make things clear between what's related to DS/Cute and what's not?
Thanks.
Edited by NethiliaopenLaunching a new work
Hi all, I'm hoping to start adding some works to TV Tropes, especially from my main area of specialization in Arabic and Middle Eastern literature. How do I add a work (rather than simply a new trope)?
openPermission to remove/rewrite an odd, natter-y ish trope description?
Always in Class One is about how the classrooms of protagonists in a lot of media (mostly eastern works) are "Class X-A" or "Class X-1". There's a weird bit near the end talking about toying with the trope, though:
I'm inclined to remove that last bit in particular just because aversions of tropes pretty much always meaningless anyways, and that's something it even acknowledges. Also, the general tone of the description is weirdly focused on its "laziness" — that a writer putting a main character in "Classroom X-1" is "due to laziness or otherwise". Am I the only one who finds that weirdly negging?
Edited by number9roboticopenHow to deal with a character whose innocence is unclear
In the FNAF Security Breach page YMMV page.
- Montgomery Gator is implied to have murdered Glamrock Bonnie to take his place in the band before being rendered Brainwashed and Crazy like the other antagonistic animatronics and has the most thuggish and aggressive personality of the bunch. Despite this, fan portrayals often downplay Monty's anger issues, portray him as a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, and depict his decommissioning of Glamrock Bonnie as either an accident that he feels guilty about or something Vanny brainwashed him into doing, if he's even shown to be responsible for the incident at all. It's also implied that Monty is plotting to kill Glamrock Freddy in order to become the face of the Pizzaplex, and yet there are fans who ship them together. That's not even getting into all the fans who feel sorry for Monty, wanted him to get a happy ending, and like the idea of him as an ally.
OK, for the people who aren't familiar with FNAF: This isn't nearly so cut and dry as the entry makes it out to be. It is an Ambiguous Situation. On one hand Bonnie was last seen heading towards Monty's residence, but nothing from Monty himself hints he is particularly ambitious or hungry for fame and attention. In game Monty is hinted to be The Aloner who often misses out on main shows in favor of being by himself, and it's explicitly laid out that he did not possess the murder weapon (special, very sharp claw-upgrades) for Bonnie at the time Bonnie died. The idea that he's planning to kill Freddy comes from a scene in a Game Within A Game which is strongly implied to have been hacked by the main antagonist anyway (most if not all such games are), not being an easter egg but explicitly an actual level, making it less likely to be a look in Monty's mind. The fan base is pretty much split down the middle about whether or not he did it. While Monty is a (Brain Washed And Crazy) antagonist and he certainly has flaws, this particular thing is unclear. Also we don't know when Monty and the others become Brainwashed and Crazy, he COULD have easily been in such a state when Bonnie died. So yes, people do feel sorry for Monty, especially since there really is a case to be made for his innocence regarding Bonnie. I have no doubt Monty gets genuine DILP in some form as all FNAF antagonists do, but there is a case to make for Monty being innocent and many people (myself included) do. But since I am trying my best to be fair and impartial and I don't want to start an edit war, I need some advice on how to handle this. Should I move this text to Broken Base and modify it?
Edited by CatcherInTheWryopenAlerted troper still making unilateral/overriding edits
Prickly Clypeasteroid has yet again changed the image for Four-Man Band, adding another image of TMNT, even after having been notified. They've also been making a lot of ensemble-based edits in general with no edit reasons, like here and here.
open How to upload images in the characters page. Videogame
I'm trying to create a folder for an easter egg character in https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/FiveNightsAtTreasureIsland that are called "DEEZ & NUTS" (they are joke characters), but for some reason when I use the "media uploader" and press the "submit" button, it doesn't do anything, and the image is nowhere to be found on the image list. What am I supposed to do?
Here's the image in question:https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/treasurei/images/1/18/Deez_extras.png/revision/latest?cb=20211006202115
Edited by Numbuh1507openHandling spoilers in a book series Literature
Is there any specific guide or at least guidance how to handle spoilers in a book series, where twists from first tome are just impossible to keep not spoilered out in later books, because they create the very foundation for their plot? I've got a long overdue trope list for a trilogy and this is one of the last excuses for not finishing working on it since Easter - no idea how to handle spoilers for tome 1 of three, where 2 and 3 run on the stuff introduced in the first book.
open Unilateral image change
I noticed the page image to Jerkass Has a Point was recently changed by PricklyClypeasteroid, but there doesn't appear to be a thread for it or any discussion of a change at all.
For reference, here's the previous image◊.
So, should the page image be reverted back.
openEdit war
On Characters.RWBY Eastern Sanus, Doodler added an entry to Like Mother, Like Daughter. I removed it for being speculation, but Doodler's added it back without an edit reason.
My edit reason isn't the best. I said it was speculative troping, but what's actually happening is that they're reading a YMMV personal interpretation into something the narrative hasn't claimed in order to speculate that Yang took cues from Summer just because they've both given the same character the cold shoulder on one occasion each. Narratively speaking, Yang actually has no idea the Summer incident ever occurred, so it's not possible for her to have taken cues from it.
openAdding Group and Character Specific Tropes for Octopath Traveler II Videogame
So I've been thinking of applying Four-Temperament Ensemble to the main characters of Octopath Traveler II and The Protagonist to Temenos. I think what I want to write makes sense but I would appreciate some feedback. Here's what I was currently thinking:
- Four-Temperament Ensemble:
- Eastern Continent and Toto'haha Characters: Ochette (Sanguine), Throné (Choleric), Osvald (Melancholic), Temenos (Phlegmatic).
- Western Continent Characters: Agnea (Sanguine), Partitio (Choleric), Hikari (Melancholic), Castti (Phlegmatic).
- The Protagonist: Temenos arguably serves as this for the entire story, given that A number of major revelations during the Final Chapter follow up on his story and he has the most personal adversity with Arcanette.
open A certain European animated short Western Animation
In the tropes Bungled Suicide and Happily Failed Suicide, there's a mention on the Western Animation folders that there's an 80's Eastern-European short about "a despondent man trying to kill himself, but when he's faced by robbers, he gives away all of his posession, clothes included, and ends up happy and appreciating life after being spared". I can't find anything about this short on the web, and a twitter account stated that this short is probably non-existant. Anybody knows what the short is called?
Edited by Numbuh1507openAre in-game memorials meta? Videogame
I've stumbled upon a few games where memorials/tributes are listed on the heartwarming/Tearjerker pages. The memorials *are* part of the games, but they reference something distinctly out of game.
Take for instance: Michel Koiter, a late Blizzard Entertainment employee - he shows up both:
- In World of Warcraft as an Easter Egg in the Barrens as the titular warrior on the "Shine of the fallen warrior" - an angellic Kyrian bearing his name stands in front of it.
- In the penultimate cutscene of Starcraft II Wings Of Liberty as a dead marine identified by his dogtags, dogtags which are part of the final sentence in the Dare to Be Badass speech that follows a few minutes later just before the final Hold the Line mission as "some things are just worth fighting for".
open North African, West Asian and South Asian tropes
So many people of North African, West Asian or South Asian origin may find themselves sort clumped together in an Interchangeable Asian Cultures way. tho North Africans arent Asians and the other two get ignored for most Asian tropes on this site focuses on East Asians, South East Asians and Pacific Islanders (tho the last one is Oceanic not Asian but I see Americans associate them with Asians).
So sometimes I see typical archetypes for characters or actors of North African, West Asian or South Asian origins (sometimes playing each other). I was wondering what would be a collective term for the three groups shoved into one. Some people say Middle Eastern but that term excludes South Asia and most of North Africa. So I was wondering what would be the most appropriate term for these 3 and also what tropes do you tend to notice that applies to them.
One trope I notice is portraying them as a the doctor/team medic a lot. Like Madanis Iranian Dad in Punisher. Avi Nash version of Siddiq in Walking Dead (Indian playing an Arab) etc.
openFilm that isn't part of franchise listed on film index page
The Curse of La Llorona is listed as a Conjuring movie on The Conjuring Universe... with a note that says it's been confirmed to not be part of the series and the references are just easter eggs. the note is phrased as if the creator is wrong, but that's not how we do things; no one gets to present their fanon as canon, no matter how well it's supported (and in this case, it's literally contradictory to actual canon). move to remove it from the page, or at least take it out of the list and put the information elsewhere in the description.
e: La Llorona's page also says it's a Conjuring movie in direct defiance of the same statements.
Edited by ChloeJessicaopen Should Eastern and Western RPGs be sorted by aesthetics or by their country of origin? Videogame
I've seen a lot of RPGs being sorted as Eastern or Western according to their country of origin, but some games such as Undertale are sorted according to aesthetic. In that game's case, it's sometimes classified as an Eastern RPG despite being made by an American, like in the Eastern RPG index. What should be the standard here?
Edited by TroperNo9001openUnfortunate Implications on this "Unfortunate Implications"
There's this entry on Street Fighter V that has me a bit worried by the conclusion it's trying to get at.
- Unfortunate Implications:
- In a case of bad luck and unfortunate coincidence, Rashid was revealed at the Dubai Game Show on September 11, 2015. While it's obvious that this wasn't an intentional attempt on Capcom's part to stir up commotion, as they wanted to reveal a character from the Middle East to the fans in attendance, the timing of it created some controversy because the event just so happened to be scheduled on this date.
Yes, 9/11 was obviously an awful and traumatizing event in history, but this entry seems to be drawing at Rashid's announcement being problematic purely because he's Middle-Eastern, not that he's a terrorist, not that he's an evil character in anyway, there's not even anything resembling a 9/11 reference in any of his material; the only connection I see being made here is his ethnicity which, if that's somehow an unfortunate implication, I find pretty racist.
Edited by IkeaHanopen Can non-monolithic supranational polities count as Space-Filling Empires?
Would Space-Filling Empire apply to a world whose political geography is dominated by supranational unions and superstates that lack the monolithicity that is typical to said trope? I will use the Front Mission setting as an example to illustrate.
- The Oceania Cooperative Union (OCU) evolved from the real-life ASEAN, and comprises Southeast Asia, Australia, Japan and various island countries in the Pacific Ocean.
- The United States of the New Continent (USN) encompasses all of the Americas.
- The European Community (EC) is a federalized evolution of the European Union.note No, I don't know why it uses the name of the EU's even less centralized predecessor. Your guess is as good as mine.
- The Organization of African Consolidation (OAC) is nominally a successor to the African Union, but it excludes the northeastern corner of the continent (Egyptnote Which is marked on one official map of Africa as part of a region that has the text "Afro-Arab Union(?)" on it, but see later., Sudannote including South Sudan, since earlier games predate its secession, and Libya).
- The Republic of Zaftra is a result of the Commonwealth of Independent States' members merging into a single superstate, with the exception of Belarus (canon contradicts itself on whether it refused outright or seceded later), renaming itself "Ranvui".
- The People's Republic of Da Han Zhong (DHZ) is a rebranding of the real-life People's Republic of China, which managed to annex Taiwan.
One source book also adds the "Non-Aligned Territories", which includes the entirety of the Middle East and India. That being said, these supranational polities are not quite monolithic like your typical Space-Filling Empire; the OCU in particular features several of its member states' governments being shown as having their own, sometimes clashing interests, and the EC's own members are treated by the narrative as distinct political entities with their own military forces, though both are ultimately subordinate to the EC's central government and military command (with the exception of certain paramilitary groups that are formally not part of the national militaries, such as Britain's Durandal and Germany's Blauer Nebel).
They also suffer from considerable nationalistic unrest; the USN has to fight rebellions in South America that are driven by the North-South wealth inequality (the one in Venezuela is a major plot driver in the USN side of the story mode in Front Mission 4), the DHZ has to contend with pro-Taiwanese independence militants, the OCU struggles to suppress multiple independence movements among its members, and Zaftra eventually falls into a messy civil war.
So with that in mind, does the setting of Front Mission and others like it qualify for Space-Filling Empire, even if only as a subversion or deconstruction?
Edited by MarqFJAopenDelete JFF Kenichi
Just found JustForFun.Kenichi The Mightiest Disciple, a page from 2014 that's about trying to find all heads of the Author Avatar in the background. An Easter Egg hunt may be fine enough as JFF material, but if no-one took part and there's only one mention, wouldn't you agree that is grounds for deletion as lacking value since no-one took part and the page is super short? Thank you.
Edited by Piterpicher
was reading the page in question when i came across these examples, under the "guilt-based idling" folder:
thing is, these aren't actually guilting the player for idling. these are just standard idle animations tacked on to the Sonic example tree (since the examples above it are actual examples of Sonic games nagging or otherwise penalizing the player for idling). permission to cut these, or at least move to the proper Idle Animation page?