Fire Emblem

^This is true, but Shiro is a boy with a shitty spear. Ryoma is a general armed with a magic lightning blade. Ryoma can handle himself, while Shiro may not be able to.

It's been fun.

Saizo is just one guy. For there to be concrete evidence of Ryoma's actions factually being that of a reckless deathseeker, we need more than just one hothead's opinion, especially since said hothead has not exactly proven himself to be the best judge of character in the game.

Again, Ryoma's actions can be interpreted many different ways; the opinion that he seems to be reckless but actually has some thought behind his actions is no less valid than his being a reckless deathseeker. Feel free to use whatever interpretation you like, but don't try to force said opinion as fact when there's nothing concrete to support it.

edited 29th May '16 1:26:36 AM by dragonfire5000

okay but regardless of what thought he put into it, the end result is that it's a reckless and bad idea. at the end of the day he willingly charged into enemy territory on his own while telling no one.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae

x2 Saizo is also Ryoma's extremely loyal retainer who likely knows him better than most people. I think he knows what he's talking about, even if he's a bit reckless himself.

edited 29th May '16 7:12:13 AM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Also, no one is arguing Ryoma is a reckless death seeker, just that he's reckless and didn't seem to consider the ramifications of what he was doing, and that 1) his judgment of Shiro is quite unfair when both of them are notably very reckless and 2) his recklessness is actively stupid in the name of the plot but doesn't get called out. The biggest issue in this argument is that Kuroi is arguing that Ryoma's a reckless person who doesn't get called out for his stupid shit and it makes his other actions seem hypocritical, while Dragonfire wants concrete evidence of Ryoma being acknowledged as reckless, despite that not really existing because the entire point of the argument is that Ryoma does stupid shit and doesn't get called on it.

Also, Ryoma actively tries to prevent you from getting medicine for Elise, a non-combatant medic, in Conquest, siccing a shitton of soldiers and his two retainers on you (notably, no one seems to die in that encounter since Saizo and Kagero return later, meaning in spite of his sisters impending death Corrin still seeks to employ non-lethal incapacitation on the Hoshidans whenever possible). The person who does something similar in Birthright (haven't played Revelations so I don't know if there is a third case of this)? Iago, the guy who is literally obsessed with fucking Corrin over and is essentially a saturday morning cartoon villain. Ryoma attempts to do the same thing as Iago.

And as for similar characters, Ephraim is the closest example and people tend to really dislike his perfection and how he gets away with so much shit, so he's hardly a good counterpoint, and he still does get some criticism from Seth. Roy is backed by a significant army for much of the game and only enters enemy territory with a major military force. Eliwood, Hector, and Lyn aren't really dealing with a major military force so a smaller group is more allowable and Hector gets called out for his recklessness often. Ike either has solid military backing before taking any major offensive toward an enemy nation, or else exercises discretion in order to gain the necessary fighting force beforehand. Leif actively suffers for doing reckless shit in Thracia, and Sigurd and Seliph are both dealing with armies of superhumans at their back, so a smaller force is less notable, though Sigurd still catches some heat for recklessly trying to assault Belhalla at the end. Marth meanwhile is forced to lead since he's the only available major leader, and he only openly opposes the major enemy kingdom after obtaining a strong force.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13239183440B34964700 Alfric's Fire Emblem Liveblog Encyclopedia!

Blazing Sword Chapter 17: Pirate Ship (Take 2)

So, I tried the chapter again. Kent died in my last attempt along with Eliwood, so he got a reprieve from my usual rule of letting dead characters stay dead. Anyway, this attempt went much better. I used a few more ranged attackers, since the sword-wielders I'd used in my last attempt just didn't have room to get any attacks in and were basically just standing there doing nothing. I'd say that decision went well. I managed to successfully defend the ship without any casualties this time, and I got another promotion item out of it. I will probably use it on Erk at the beginning of the next mission.

I now have quite a few party members who are eligible for promotions, but don't have the items for them yet. Right now, my attitude toward promotions is to use the item on the highest-level eligible member when I get it, but I have read things that suggest you should hold off on promoting people, so I hope using the promotion items as soon as I can won't end up screwing me over.

New Party Members: None

Casualties: None

The Living Guildpact rules that coffee is an acceptable substitution for rest as specified in subsection … whatever.

He didn't just "charge" into enemy territory. He and Takumi were attacked near Izumo and separated, and he went to Cheve to make an alliance with the resistance there. Also, my reasoning on why he didn't tell anyone was because he didn't want to risk alerting the Nohrians to his presence, lest they bring the hammer down on the resistance like they would later do with the Ice Tribe.

Perhaps, but even people close to you might not know you as well as you think. I speak from experience here; I've had to reevaluate my opinion on people close to me before, and I am fully aware that a lot of my opinion is colored by my own biases and preconceptions.

My argument is that there are many interpretations of Ryoma's actions, and that if there isn't any concrete evidence that Ryoma's actions were undeniably stupid and suicidal (the latter is definitely not true, since the whole point he was in Cheve was looking for allies), then any interpretations that his actions were not stupid and suicidal are no less valid than any interpretations that his actions were stupid and suicidal. I've said it before: feel free to interpret his actions that way. But don't try to pass your interpretations as any more valid than the opposite side when there is no concrete evidence supporting it.

I'd like to point you to this bit on the Fire Emblem Fates Fridge page:

omg this pairing is so sweet

I'm definitely pairing these two in Revelations.

Heart of Stone

Arthur is kinda great with every, honestly. His worst trait is being a little naive about why people might do bad things, and even then he's not as bad about it as he could be.

I like how he's actually given a great deal of thought to what justice is exactly, too- It makes his For Great Justice shtick much less one-note.

I sure said that!

One of the things I really like about Arthur is how much he embodies the heroic spirit. His luck is horrid and so many bad things happen to him, yet he soldiers on with that big grin on his face, refusing to be beaten and cowed. I too also like how much thought he's put into justice, and he's a nice reminder that Nohr really isn't an evil kingdom.

On the other hand, a general has a responsibility to not put himself at unnecessary risk. Also, Shiro's been trained all his life to fight. I'd argue that both overestimated themselves.

What? I'm not arguing that he's a reckless deathseeker. I'm arguing that he's reckless and didn't make the smartest decisions by overestimating himself—y'know, like Shiro. One does not have to be trying to get themselves killed to perform an action that can be considered borderline suicidal. So please, put the strawman away.

This. Also, to reiterate, it's an assessment of recklessness, not that he's a deathseeker.

Well, if we're just going on speculation now, he had other options. Like, y'know, regrouping with the scattered forces he left behind? Or retreating back into Hoshido to find allies he knows would be there instead of some random strangers from Cheve. Instead, he chose to run toward the enemy. Not only that, but behind their lines, by himself. While it's not literal charging, it's still close enough that it reflects poorly on him. Y'know, kind of like how Shiro wandered out by himself and that was considered a bad idea? Or would you perhaps like to argue that Shiro wasn't being reckless either?

Which is all fine and dandy to say until you start moving the goalposts when the one concrete example is brought up.

The fun thing about pragmatism is that it often makes one look like a dick. If the story didn't want him to look like a dick, then they could have run with something else. Since they didn't, he's stuck with what they gave him. Such a shame, Ryoma actually suffering consequences for once (even if it's just meta).

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

My apologies; I interpreted this bit your wrote: as you saying he's a deathseeker. That's on me. Still, you haven't shown where he overestimated himself. Again, he didn't charge into Nohr to take on everyone in there armed with just a Raijinto. He was in there to find allies, and I'm sure the game made it clear that he was keeping a low profile while in Nohr.

Again, not the same thing. Shiro was picking a fight with a group of people with little regard to his well-being. Ryoma was looking for allies and not picking fights willy-nilly. And on the note of why he didn't just regroup, just because the game doesn't give you a reason doesn't mean there isn't any. Where's the concrete evidence that he had other options?

I haven't moved any goalposts at all. I haven't even seen any concrete examples brought up. Are you referring to Saizo? Because that's not a concrete example; that's one unit bringing up his personal opinion.

edited 29th May '16 10:49:59 AM by dragonfire5000

Because one man can't take on an army and if he was caught, that's pretty much what he'd be doing? Consider that the game takes pains to show just how powerful Xander is and the situation becomes extremely dangerous. Even considering some level of caution, no matter which way one spins it, these are odds that are stacked very heavily against him. Lying low only goes so far against that.

It very much is. Shiro wasn't looking for a fight, he was looking for his dad. His problem is that he wandered off into hostile territory and trouble found him. It's not like he was running around trying to find someone to attack. Ryoma ran off deep into enemy territory, looking for allies who may not even be alive anymore or even accept him. Ryoma could have easily run into similar problems.

And since we're still playing the speculation game, I can throw that right back at you. Where's the concrete evidence that he had no choice? There is none. However, it's far more reasonable to think that he had other options over going through the contrivance of inventing multiple reasons that he had to do the most reckless thing on the list.

The personal opinion of one of the people who is in the best position to make the judgment. It's there, it's in the game and you're discounting it. There's no concrete reason to not believe Saizo's assessment.

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

Here's the thing: Ryoma didn't take on the army all by himself. He took a risk and was careful not to get caught. Yeah, the odds could've been stacked against him, but we have no solid evidence that what he did wasn't the best option after he and Takumi were attacked.

No, it really wasn't. Sure, Shiro was looking for his dad at first. But when he ran into trouble, the first thing he did was charge headfirst into a group of bandits despite the odds heavily stacked against him with little regards to his own safety. Ryoma meanwhile snuck into Cheve, a city in the southern part of Nohr (so it wasn't exactly "deep in enemy territory") to gauge and aid the resistance. He didn't go picking fights with a huge group of enemies; he joined the resistance while hiding his identity at first and, after establishing that they opposed King Garon and weren't an underground anti-Hoshido group, then revealed who he was. Very different from what Shiro did.

Hence why I've been saying that my interpretation is no less valid than yours, and vice versa. Since we don't have any concrete evidence, what's to say that the following didn't happen?

• The Nohrian presence on the route back to Hoshido was greater than the route to Cheve, so Ryoma decided to go to Cheve and see if they can find allies.
• His own forces took a hit from the attack, so he needed to bolster his own forces as quickly as possible. He heard rumors of an anti-Nohrian resistance, investigated, realized that the rumors were true, and gained their aid.
• Ryoma couldn't risk sending word out due to the Nohrian presence in the area, lest they not only find out he's alive in the area, but the anti-Nohrian resistance could be quashed, costing the Hoshidans a potential ally.

Speculation? Sure. But there's no solid evidence that the above didn't happen, just like there's no solid evidence that Ryoma decided "Hey, let's charge headfirst into Nohr and pick a fight with anyone that gets in our way!" Hence why I keep saying that there's no evidence

It's been a while since I've played Birthright, but was Saizo aware of Ryoma's intentions in Cheve? Because if he wasn't, then it was an assessment made without a full understanding of the situation. I'll have to double-check this one.

@Arthur x Azura: Ikr, I paired them by process of elimination expecting them to feel forced, but instead got one of the best pairings.

Yes, he wasn't fighting the army in direct combat, but he was still pitting himself against their scouting forces. The odds were definitely stacked against him and the fact that he was able to slip by is pretty miraculous.

You're ignoring the fact that regardless of the end result, it was still a huge risk on both sides. Yes, Shiro's reaction to things not working out was pretty dumb, but what would Ryoma have done had he gotten caught? Cheve is, indeed, quite deep into Nohr territory, if for no other reason than the fact that he had to cross a body of water to arrive at a port city before heading over. If he'd been caught, he'd have had no path of escape, because all Nohr would have to do would be to close down the port. Ryoma got off easy because the story loves him.

At best, your argument says that Shiro is slightly more reckless than Ryoma.

Given his disposition and what's presented in the games, it's far more probable that his first instinct was the reckless route, especially because that line of logic requires manufacturing an entire new sequence of events compared to taking things at face value.

It's in Revelation, following the near copy-pasta from the Birthright situation (which is why I was baffled it wasn't in Birthright and that the rest of the story totally glossed over it). Saizo's direct response to hearing about Ryoma going to Cheve is to call him reckless in a way that indicates Ryoma has a history of such behaviour.

EDIT: Got the transcript:

edited 29th May '16 3:10:43 PM by KuroiTsubasaTenshi

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

Blazing Sword Chapter 18: The Dread Isle

The chapter started with quite a lot of drama happening, and more insight into the Black Fang. As for the battle, it's another fog chapter, and this time the fog was in place even during the pre-battle preparations. That made the decision of who to bring much more difficult, aside from Matthew. He was useful even during the preparations, where I could shift him around the starting formation to see at least some of the enemies. I also brought Erk along to use the Guiding Ring I got from the last chapter to promote him to a Sage. I like his new attack animations. Then we also had Dart the Pirate see his first actual battle after joining at the end of the previous chapter. There was also an NPC Pegasus Knight named Fiora that I could not recruit since I got Florina killed earlier. The boss of this chapter, a Nomadic Trooper named Uhai, was really fun to fight. He had such a variety of weapons and attack ranges. Fiora fell to Uhai, but I did manage to beat him without any casualties on my own team. I also got an Orion's Bolt to promote an Archer or Nomad with. Too bad both the Archers I've had got killed...

New Party Members: Dart (Pirate)

Promotions: Erk (Mage -> Sage)

Casualties: None

Blazing Sword Chapter 18x: Imprisoner of Magic

I'm starting to get the feeling that when the game said side quests were "difficult", what they really mean is "unusual". There were a lot of Mages and Knights, along with a Sage with a Bolting tome as the chapter boss. I was expecting it to be like the earlier chapter with the Ballista. My original plan was to stay outside of Bolting range and let the Knights and Mages come to us, then have Canas tank the Boltings before moving in for the kill. But then everything changed with the appearance of Kishuna and his anti-magic field, and I now had to shift gears from defense to aggression to reach the mages in the field. This was not without its difficulty, though. I lost Dorcas in the process. Other than that, the main difficulty was getting my guys to land hits on the boss. He was still a frustrating foe despite having no usable attacks because of that. After finally killing him, I went to finish off Kishuna, but he was even more evasive than the boss, so I just seized the gate to end the chapter.

New Party Members: None

Casualties: Dorcas

The Living Guildpact rules that coffee is an acceptable substitution for rest as specified in subsection … whatever.

edited 29th May '16 3:15:34 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Yeah, taking down Kishuna is frustratingly RNG because even very accurate pairs and characters won't have perfect hit on him. Luckily, taking him down is only required in Hector's mode (and only if you want the next side quest).

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

Oh man, that Arthur x Azura is adorable.

Anyway! I'm starting Blazing Sword Hard Mode, gonna do all three routes. I've beaten the game several times on Normal, but this is the first time doing Hard. Any tips, for those of you who've done it?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Yes, it was a huge risk on Ryoma's part, and here's where I think you and I differ in our interpretations. I interpreted Ryoma's actions as taking drastic action, fully knowing the risks and taking extra steps not to get caught. Nothing I've seen in the game suggested that he wasn't being extremely careful while in Cheve. I can understand that you think dumb luck helped him out, but I personally interpreted it as him being very cautious and not moving recklessly. He knows that he carries the weight of Hoshido's future on his shoulders, so I can totally see him being very careful with his movements in Cheve.

Honestly, I try not to take too many things at face value. I found I end up missing out on a lot of Hidden Depths and hidden details that way. And again, my own personal interpretations of Ryoma's behavior tells me that he probably did weigh the risks against the gains, and decided taking the risk was a worthy choice.

Thanks for finding the script (I was searching in Birthright for that conversation, go figure). I still think Saizo is making an assessment based on limited knowledge; he knows his liege is headed toward Cheve, but he doesn't know how Ryoma is doing it.

Speaking of Saizo, I recall he said something like this to Kagero in their support:

While Saizo is talking about ninjas, I can totally see Ryoma using the same logic to justify his choice in going to Cheve. He probably believes that securing allies in territories close to Nohr is important enough for the future of his beloved kingdom to put himself at risk. He probably felt he could do more for his country by seeking allies rather than holing himself up in Hoshido, and we at least know he was careful enough not to get caught in Birthright, meaning he probably went about the mission knowing full well what would happen if he got caught, and took steps to ensure he didn't.

KuroiTsubasaTenshi, what I'm trying to say is that I totally get why you would see Ryoma in a certain light, but I myself do not think the way I see him is any less valid given what the game has presented me. I apologize if I failed to get that across and frustrated you; as you can probably tell, I'm not exactly the best orator on this site.

Essentially, this is an argument of interpretation, as both of you have seen the evidence and come to different conclusions about Ryoma's character. This isn't likely to go anywhere, though given how civil it's been I don't really see a need to drop it if you guys wanna keep going. I personally think Ryoma was being kinda reckless and is in general a bit of a douche to Shiro, but regardless he does show a certain amount of caution when it comes to his actions, even if he does choose the more reckless option.

I forget though, why were Ryoma and Takumi off by Izumo again in the first place? Did they have their retainers with them? Because the first part of Birthright pretty much involves hunting them down, and you encounter their retainers separately from them as the retainers are hunting them down in the first place, so presumably they weren't traveling together, which means two of the nobles of Hoshido were off in the ass end of nowhere near a neutral city and were close enough to the border to be attacked.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13239183440B34964700 Alfric's Fire Emblem Liveblog Encyclopedia!

Probably searching for allies. Nohr is, after all, known for its military might, so Ryoma and Takumi were probably hoping to gain an advantage by allying with Izumo.

As for why the retainers weren't with their lieges, I think they got separated when Nohrians attacked them.

edited 29th May '16 4:29:29 PM by dragonfire5000

In unrelated news, I have now given Conquest Ch 12 the Murder Hut. Because Elise keeps dieing.

No idea of what is going on.

I believe dumb luck played a part yes, in addition to some level of caution taken (since he didn't get himself killed right away). I guess our real major difference here is that I feel no amount of caution is enough to merit the level of risk involved in a royal performing a solo infiltration mission, making the whole endeavour rather reckless.

While I agree that not everything should be taken at face value, I feel there's also a limit to how much space should be given to speculation. In this case, I didn't see a need for much, since I felt the game was being pretty upfront about the sequence of events.

Maybe. Given that Saizo says Ryoma makes a habit of being reckless, though, I feel that that's a pretty big maybe.

A fair self-justification for certain. As I said above, though, I feel no amount of caution could offset that level of stakes.

It's okay. I think I interpreted some of your arguments are more antagonistic than was intended, so sorry for not giving benefit of the doubt when I should have.

Yeah, I think this is naturally coming to a close, since we're pretty much out of new material at this point.

You can coast through Lyn's because it's barely any harder than Normal. For Eliwood's, you may have to take extra care to baby certain units if you want to use them. From what I can remember, I think the enemies just get higher stats (+2 all and a bit of extra Con, so Steel isn't quite as bad a choice anymore), so playing a bit more defensively will largely get you through. Hector's route is where things change drastically. In addition to the higher stats, key units will generally bring better gear (like the Swordslayer Fighters). Deployment slots also get lower and I think enemy formations are even changed compared to Hector Normal. Choose something like six core units to make into super units and feed them everything. Timing for secondary objectives is also really tight, so much sure you stat out the combat and plan several moves ahead for whoever you're sending (or else be prepared to end up resetting a bunch...).

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi