It's a Gundam thread!

That's... a really dubious source, given that it seems to contradict what we see in Zeta, and it comes from something created five years later and without Tomino's involvement. I thought you mean there was a line of dialogue in Zeta itself or something.

We don't really see another good face in the EF hierarchy after Revil dies. In ZZ, CCA, and F91, feddie leadership is either uncooperative or outright hostile to the protagonists efforts to defeat the villainous faction. I think it's pretty clear what Tomino wants us to read into the EF as an institution when he has a Feddies official, in response to the Frontier 4 attack in F91, cavalierly brush off the attack while lounging by the pool. We do eventually get Not!Revil in Victory, but about 2/3rds of the way through the series, after the EF had spent most the series dithering over whether to support the League Militares defense of Earth.

All this is to say I think the feddies are clearly the good guys in 0079, but I think everything after that is more murky. I don't think there's malice per se, but rampant incompetence that belies implied structural problems to the EF government. At the very least I don't think we have enough information to concluded it was 'good' except in the sense that it much preferable to Haman's jackboot or Char's Nihilism.

I agree with you there though; I honestly think 0083 exists mainly to lionize Neo Zeon and make the Titans more ridiculously evil.

I think the Titans are a missed oppurtunity honestly. They could've been a reflection on what lengths people are willing go to out of fear and a desire for security; maybe touch on legitimate EF anxieties following the OYW (Imagine a Titan Recruitment poster of Sydney saying "NEVER AGAIN"). Instead they're just... I don't know they really have no identity to them. They're just Hymen/Bask and then latter Sirocco's goons, there's no real ideological identity to them as a faction, at least from my experience with ANT.

edited 21st Jun '16 8:15:18 PM by ScherzoPrime

0083 didn't like Neo Zeon, though? While the Delaz fleet were certainly portrayed positively, the Axis forces were painted as backwater and cowardly

Frankly I'm just lumping all the Zeon movements together; my point is that it goes out of its way to portray the Zekes actions as noble even though their mission is to kill tens of millions of innocent EF Citizens in North America.

Probably shouldn't lump the Zeonic movements together; they have different goals and ideology

But, yeah, the avenging ronin thing didn't work so well when it was applied to mass destruction/murder

I'm talking about the point of making the Titans retroactively more sinister, while making those who continue to fall on Gihren's sword as heroic.

Going back to Thunderbolt, it certainly doesn't lionise the Zeon forces as much as 0083. The Living Dead are sympathetic, but they're fanatics being used in terrible ways for a terrible cause by their superiors, and most of them eventually get themselves killed in a ridiculous, humiliating way. The entire series literally takes place in the heart of a Zeon atrocity that the Federation forces are trying to rectify, and the worst thing they ever do is bring in a bunch of very young, untrained soldiers out of desperation, and... well, you've seen the main cast of 0079, right?

Literally teenagers. Or well most of them, anyways.

Well it's a bit more about the horrors of war in general, how conflicts push people to abandon their principles and humanity. It's sort of a weird inverse between the Side 4 militia and the Zekes; the Zeke soldiers are bwing mutilated and forced to die meaningless deaths by their callous regime, while the commander of the Moore forces can't control her soldiers lust for blood and vengeance, even it results in their pointless deaths. It sorta reminds me of Film/Fury in a way; the war is basically wrapped up bit there's still plenty of ways to get yourself.

I'm honestly a little miffed by the EFSF using Child Soldiers, given the EF's material advantage over Zeon, but I have two rationalizations: 1) the EFSF forces here are fanatical survivors of the One Week Battle and probably compell children capable of piloting to seek revenge, and 2) the OYW might be more akin to the Eastern Front of WWII than the Western one; the EF being about as rugged and thrown together as the Zeke forces, despite having a numerical advantage.

Well, last night I finished my rewatch of 00's first season.

Lockon's ultimate fate made me cry. Again.

Ditto Christine and that dude who was crushing on her. And the Halevy family tragedy.

Also went and did the first three eps of the second season. I have to admit, I really don't know how I feel about the second season's OP song in comparison to the unspeakably amazing 'Daybreak's Bell' and 'Ash Like Snow', but perhaps it'll grow on me.

00 Gundam's theme is awesome as hell, though.

Again, the child soldiers in Thunderbolt are roughly the age of the White Base crew. This goes right back to the start of the franchise. Amuro, the hero of the One Year War, was fifteen years old when he first got in the Gundam.

@Scherzo: Yeah, it occurred to me a while back that the OYW kinda resembles the Eastern Front: The Federation/Soviets pushed to the brink of defeat, but managing to reverse their fortunes and win with superior numbers by the end. But even then, there was exhaustion and atrocity.

It's also made me wonder if it's possible to map the Cold War onto Zeta and maybe even ZZ and CCA.

edited 23rd Jun '16 4:35:41 PM by RocketDude

I liked the 00 Gundam before it started carrying a plane on its back. And the Age-2 Double Bullet is pretty much the Spiritual Successor of the 00 and I love that too.

A bit off-topic, but, does anyone know (or have any news on) why episode 12 of Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn RE: 0096 hasn't aired yet?

Usually it airs just before the subbed version of Macross Delta (and I usually watch both new episodes of both series back to back), but while episode 12 of Macross Delta already aired, there's still no sign of Gundam Unicorn RE: 0096 episode 12. (And yes, I also checked on the GundamInfo YouTube channel. Episode 11 is still the latest episode there.)

I haven't heard the reason why, but Gundam UC took a break this past week. Episode 12 will air at the usual time this coming weekend.

Its not the only show that didn't air, Flying Witch didn't air as well. I assume some special delayed them.

Edit: Reddit said it was a Rugby match apparently, could be wrong though.

edited 24th Jun '16 1:13:10 AM by Memers

& : I see.

Well, so much for watching both new episodes of both series back to back as they come out (Macross Delta is now ahead by an episode in that regard)... Although I could watch episode 12 of both shows by Monday (just for the "Mecha Monday" theme-naming/pun).

@Iaculus: I think it's somewhat different circumstances. The White Base was basically pressed into action with a motley crew; the Moore Brotherhood militia seem to be more of a regular feddie unit, though like I said it's likely that they press ganged/indoctrinated survivors of the One Week Battle to continue fighting. At least that's my read on it.

I'm not sure is it a good place to discuss here, but whatever.

I notice some pages claimed that Gundam AGE's poor performance lead TBS or/and MBS kicked the Gundam franchise off. I know about its poor performance, but that's not important.

Gundam Reconguista (and Iron Blooded Orphans) debunked that theory as it's aired on both TBS and MBS. Gundam Build Fighter is a spin-off series, which is why it's aired on TV Tokyo like two previous SD Gundam series.

We've got some info on the new Crossbone manga, called "Dust". This one's significant because it's depicting the UC timeline post-Victory, which hasn't been attempted since G-Savior. I have to say, it looks very interesting and I am frustrated as all get out that there are no reliable translation sources for Gundam manga, which means it's doubtful anyone will tackle this.

A guy on reddit translated the magazine scan and compiled the information here.

edited 29th Jun '16 10:41:44 PM by DarkHunter

About darn time, on more than one count.

edited 30th Jun '16 5:53:55 AM by kkhohoho

Honestly, I don't much care about UC post-CCA. One of Gundam's biggest strengths is that it knows when to end a story. The UC timeline is, broadly, the story of Zeon — and that story ends pretty conclusively in CCA. That's not to say that F91, Victory, etc are inherently bad, just that I consider them more AUs than UC proper, given that they have next to no connection to the rest of the UC timeline.

Interview with Makoto Kobayashi.

Wait a new crossbone? I haven't even heard about Ghost being translated past chapter 7 let alone ending

That's what I mean by no reliable translators. Zeonic are about the only ones who do translations of Gundam manga, and they have so many simultaneous projects going that they barely make any progress on any of them, and are nearly incapable of ever finishing what they start.