Not sociopathic enough - : Heroic Sociopath

Total posts: [151]
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1 SomeGuy16th Sep 2010 02:05:06 PM from totally uncool town
Some Guy
First, yes, I know that's Belkar Bitterleaf, and he's an excellent example of the trope. Be that as it may, all he's doing in this picture is standing a top of goblin corpses clearly very proud of himself. That's not sociopathic behavior, that's something practically any Bad Ass could do.

I grant that with this framework, it's sort of difficult to think of any good image for Heroic Sociopath, and I'd just as soon not make this page picture-less since this one at least gets the "important fighter character" part down. Still, I'd like to know if we could do better.
See you in the discussion pages.
2 DRCEQ16th Sep 2010 02:34:59 PM , Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
We could always put up a picture of Grand Theft Auto's various characters doing what they do best.

... Or Sam & Max to help better define the trope quote.
The dialogue, facial expression, and wielding of weapons seems to imply that he killed a lot of people. That is a clear violation of Thou Shalt Not Kill, a rule that even some type-3 Anti-Hero characters (Batman from The Dark Knight comes to mind) try to obey.
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
OTOH, most heroes in the fantasy genre kill lots of people, and in a lot of fantasy settings, guys like goblins don't really count as "people."
5 Martello17th Sep 2010 06:37:52 AM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
Belkar is such a great example though. I'll see what I can do to find a better image for him.
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Cure Candy
[1] how about this?
7 Deboss17th Sep 2010 07:07:03 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
If anyone could unseat Belkar, it'd be Kratos.
Kratos has a similar problem. Most pictures we could find are simply him chopping up monsters.

EDIT: How about this?

edited 17th Sep '10 7:36:34 AM by GabrielGloom

That looks more like a villainous sociopath to me. Visually, Kratos doesn't look very heroic.
For what it's worth, I'd never read Order Of The Stick and I laughed and got the trope when I saw that pic. With that art style, it didn't even occur to me that those are goblin corpses: it just looks like a guy giving a cheerfully crazy boast atop a mountain of bodies.
"And for the first time in weeks, I felt the boredom go away!"
... yeah, what Brit Bllt said. o.o
12 SomeGuy18th Sep 2010 01:45:14 PM from totally uncool town
Some Guy
Yeah, that Kratos stuff just doesn't do it. Let's try a different tact- maybe try using an image of Belkar, just from a scenario more obviously sociopathic.

Take this page, panels five and six. Belkar is (1) randomly killing someone who has no idea who Belkar even is, and (2) making a smug joke about it. That is clearly sociopathic behavior, and in my opinion at least it pretty well demonstrates the other qualities of the joke.

edited 18th Sep '10 1:46:06 PM by SomeGuy

See you in the discussion pages.
That one might work. Size may be an issue, but the bigger one would be cropping the image—a lot of people get a little bit lazy on getting pictures from webcomics that dont always stay inside the borders, and it looks bad. But other than that, I think it'd work.

EDIT: Here we go. here.

edited 18th Sep '10 5:09:55 PM by Discar

Mr. Dr.
I know Belkar because I frequently read OOTS and I do think that he's a really old example of the trope too. But to be honest, the above image isn't really working for me. Yes I know he's a sociopath and that is clearly shown in that image, but how does it portray him as "heroic"? To someone who's never read the strip, it just looks like he's killing some random guy  * At least the original image had him standing on top of a pile of monsters, screaming that he just killed them all.

If anything, the one where he's talking to the guy about "City Limits" and then proceeds to kill the other people at least deonstrates that he has a team he's looking after.

edited 18th Sep '10 5:22:11 PM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
Wasn't there a comparatively recent (or recentish, I haven't caught up with the strip in a while) bit where they're in the desert lands, and Belkar's heroic sociopathy is especially lampshaded? My recollection is extremely vague, but I think the upshot was Belkar saving the day because he's a sociopath?

In any case, I think there's probably a better Belkar moment in there somewhere, but of the two in this thread so far, I think the "pile of corpses" one is marginally better.
16 SomeGuy19th Sep 2010 03:55:04 PM from totally uncool town
Some Guy
Oh, I remember that. Let's take a look here. Try the right half of the last panel. He's clearly killed several evil creatures. However, he's also torturing one of the creatures, whose name he knows, while the human he just freed from the net watches in horror.

He's being heroic and he's being sociopathic in the same shot. Granted we can see his face, but this trope doesn't have anything to do with appearance.
See you in the discussion pages.
Actually, the third to last and second to last panels of this strip seem a bit better.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
^^ Correction - he's urinating on the creature's headless corpse.
What's precedent ever done for us?
19 shimaspawn19th Sep 2010 05:02:00 PM from Here and Now , Relationship Status: In your bunk
^^ Those are perfect.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
20 SomeGuy19th Sep 2010 05:04:05 PM from totally uncool town
Some Guy
It's really a question, then, of whether we want the page image to be more text-intensive or visual-intensive. Since it's a page picture, I prefer the latter, but either of these choices would represent a significant improvement over the current image. We should put up a crowner as soon as we can get these shopped and uploaded.
See you in the discussion pages.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Discar's suggestion does illustrate the trope very well. Only question remaining is whether it would work better as a quote or a picture.
What's precedent ever done for us?
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
Discar's is the one I was thinking of. Looks great!

edited 20th Sep '10 4:08:03 AM by suedenim

Uh, how does it look great? We're still only getting the sociopathic, not the heroic, element. Nothing about the situation suggests heroic to me.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
The first speech bubble in the selected panels outlines the 'heroic' bit - i.e., he killed the people everyone else wanted him to kill.
What's precedent ever done for us?
Which just as easily suggests mercenary or assassin, rather than hero.

Image Pickin: Heroic Sociopath
Nominations for replacement images:
At issue:

Total posts: 151
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