1. Even though The Mario is a video game trope, and coincidentally fits the One Mario Limit for that medium, it's still not that unique a name overall. Plus it would be Fan Myopia to assume almost every troper is a gamer.

2. Mario is known for many things, but being the most balanced character? If most of his main series games involved multiple characters with different strengths, then yes, but they don't.

3. The page picture doesn't show the trope at all. Not that such a picture would be easy, but just showing the character with no context of the trope?

EDIT: Rename Crowner.

edited 31st Oct '09 9:10:21 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm not gonna say The Mario is the best name, but am gonna make one contention:

>it would be Fan Myopia to assume almost every troper is a gamer.

When Non-Gamers ask about games, the stereotypical dumb response often falls into the category of "Oh, you mean like (old game from the 80s)?" A hefty percent of the time that is going to be Pac Man or Mario. Super Mario Bros was the game that brought Nintendo and the game industry back from the great home console crash of the 80s. If you go to Joe Random who's under 40 (maybe 50) on the street and show a picture of Mario, there's a good chance they'll recognize him.

I know that. But it's associating video games with Mario, while this is associating Mario with Game Balance.

edited 29th Oct '09 12:05:02 AM by DragonQuestZ

Mario is a very basic character. Practically providing a guideline for other characters of his type.

And isn't this a Trope Of Legend?

EDIT: Also the "The" in the trope title does help point out that this is a character type/title.

edited 29th Oct '09 12:45:55 AM by Sand Josieph

I think the whole "Mario as the balanced guy" is something only big Nintendo fans tend to be familiar with, since it typically only comes up when he's Go Karting With Bowser.

It's not a particularly good name. Being balanced isn't really what most people think of when someone mentions Mario.

"Being balanced isn't really what most people think of when someone mentions Mario."

Things that could be thought of first:

• Heroic protagonist
• Princess Rescuer
• Heroic Plumber
• Company Mascot
• Jumping Character
• Pseudo Italian Stereotype

I think we've got the same problem here that we had with The Fonzie: the character's famous enough, but not for the right reason.

I say rename.

Agree with rename.

I'm biased, because the first thing that came into my mind was Super Mario Bros. 2. For those who haven't played that game, the name probably is not all that useful.

And Mario is ironically not the best example.

edited 29th Oct '09 7:53:43 AM by Kinkajou

Mario is balanced as the 'baseline' of sorts in Super Mario Bros. 2 (US release), all of the Super Smash Bros games, all of the Mario Kart games, Super Mario 64 DS, and (I believe) quite the number of the Mario sports games (tennis, golf, soccer, etc.). Edit: And all the Paper Mario games. Possibly Super Mario RPG, too.

I'm curious how many people aren't familiar with at least one of these entries – any one of them giving the basic reference needed to remember the trope name.

edited 29th Oct '09 8:23:47 AM by BrokenChaos

Me, for one. I'm not a gamer at all. I've never played any of them. I don't even own a games system.

...Bearing in mind that it's a video game trope? This has been one of the arguments for keeping a variety of other trope names – "It's known in the genre/medium.".

Edit: To clarify, I'm making an argument for keeping based around it being (likely) known in the medium, and not really seeing a need to change it when the reference, while maybe not instantly recognisable to all based solely on the name, should be memorable once the article is read if they're familiar with any one of those games.

edited 29th Oct '09 8:29:30 AM by BrokenChaos

I'm leaning towards a rename for now. I don't have a thing against character named tropes, but if balance is not the best thing he's known for then it should get something more appropriate.

edit: To answer your question Broken, I'm a gamer and am not familiar with those games. (Gave up on Nintendo after the SNES)

edited 29th Oct '09 9:17:19 AM by Meeble

For me I'm only a casual gamer, even more so in the realm of the Nintendo games, and Mario being The Mario is something I noticed independant of TV Tropes. Even before I read the page I thought of Mario as being the balanced character. The "appeal to non-gamer" argument is often irrelevant (when used alone) because we are here to educate. Non-Gamers don't care about that trope and we just need to teach the mildly interested.

And one key criteria for renames is missing from the current arguments, is it being misused? I don't think The Mario gives any universally mistaken connotation and when you read The Mario you seem to know and remember what it is. I think there might be some individual mistakes scattered around on whether or not a specific character is The Mario, but that has nothing to do with the name and everything to do with human error.

I agree that basic familiarity with the subject matter would leave you with some indication of the trope's purpose, given the sheer number of games in which Mario is The Mario (I suspect it's far more for Mario than for any other example.) The other problem is that the best replacement title, Jack Of All Trades, is in use already as a works page.

I'd support a rename, simply because "well-balanced character" is not the first thing I associate with Mario. I'd propose a title such as Well Balanced Character (or maybe Well Balanced Character, since it is a video game trope).

As far as page images go, well, that's easy: A screenshot of the character select screen from a Mario Kart-style game, showing the statistics ("handling", "acceleration", etc.) all right in the middle.

Naw, we need a catchier name than Well Balanced Character. Perhaps something like Joe Balanced, Joe Standard, or even Mr Average.

Rename. RENAME. This isn't just a "not that great name." It's awful. As has been pointed out, the list of attributes that Mario has that spring to mind before the trope meaning is gargantuan. Is it a trope about guys who rescue princesses? Guys who attack by Goomba Stomp? Silent protagonists? Everymen? People with humdrum professions completely unrelated to their life of super-adventure?

All other arguments for rename, whether valid or not, are just chatter. Even if this is a video game trope, and even if this trope occurs with the title character in a large number of titles, and even if you don't mind tropes named after characters, and even if you, individually understood what it meant right off the bat, it's still an awful trope name because the character is known for a ton more than the trope.

Incidentally, this is the problem with all character-named tropes. Characters fit multiple tropes because they're characters, not tropes.

My idea for a replacement name is The Balanced Guy but I figure that'll get nixed on pronoun grounds.

In sports, we call people like that The All Rounder. It's someone who is pretty good at all aspects of their sports, with the implication they're not the best at any one aspect.

Second The All Rounder. And a good pic would show multiple character stats, highlighting that this character is in the middle.

I don't have any good suggestions that wanted to clarify that yeah, when I first came across it I thought the name was pretty bad.

Should we also remove this from the Tropes of Legend page?

It's irrelevant now, but that second "Well Balanced Character" was supposed to say "Well Balanced Player." I wish the forums had a "preview" button.

Also, sure, I like The All Rounder.

Edit: I have the perfect picture◊.

edited 29th Oct '09 6:34:33 PM by CentralAvenue