Why do Americans hate Lisa Simpson

The biggest issue I have with Lisa is that she's just plain boring for the most part. She doesn't really bounce off the other characters that well (forcing them to constantly pair her off with some new, bland one-shot character), she's rarely proven wrong, episodes centering around her are almost always either preachy or lamenting the fact that she's supposedly Surrounded by Idiots, and she's almost perpetually a wet blanket. All and all, she seems less like a child than a burnt out hippie. She simply doesn't fit in with this series anymore.

I don't hate her, but I know that any episode that involves her to a large degree is going to be the same old, painfully dull nonsense. Bart, for all his many flaws as a character, mixes it up a little in his episodes.

I will admit that she's far better than Brian.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, Godfellas

At some point, though, that is not going to be enough.

For an extreme example, if she lived in a community where everyone believed that it was okay to murder people, and Lisa was one of the few who didn't, would it be enough to just leave them alone, and associate only with people who share her belief? I would think under circumstances those extreme it would be preferable to push her beliefs on others.

Granted, most examples on the show aren't that extreme, but the point is about the concept, not the extent.

Of course, one problem with this is that Lisa's characterization isn't even consistent. She can be a religious fanatic in one episode and a Dawkins-style anti-religionist in another.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

For me, it's not even that she's just boring; Marge is pretty boring, but I don't really mind her. It's that she actively ruins everyone's good time. She's like Buzz Killington, only not half as funny. While I find Brian's proselytizing to be incredibly annoying, he at least has the excuse of being in a Sadist Show that isn't afraid to punish the guy whenever it'll be funny. Lisa doesn't have the comic potential to make up for her irritating behaviour.

edited 9th Nov '11 10:30:30 PM by tropetown

I mentioned my theory on Lisa in the science in cartoons thread. Smart characters are somewhat harder to develop than stupid ones. A character with stupidity as a key flaw has the excuse of being to dense to really know better and thus a lot of their obnoxious moments convey a larger scale of innocence. Smart characters can't really have stupidity as an excuse and need other more vindictive flaws as a balance most of the time (eg. arrogance, temper, self righteousness) a lot of which they should know better from acting up with than stupid characters. When a smart character has genuine clarity AND intelligence, they are seen as a Flat Character or Mary Sue, when they are flawed they are usually seen as obnoxious or mean spirited Jerkass types.

Granted Lisa at least had the excuse of being a child in earlier more realistic episodes, which gave some skew in her intelligence. This is downplayed in later zanier episodes, where nearly every character is a Manchild compared to her.

edited 10th Nov '11 3:52:53 AM by Psi001

Weirdly, I remember most the episodes where Lisa doesn't act preachy.

For example, the one at the military school.

edited 22nd Nov '11 10:21:13 AM by GildedATM

I remember the episode where Lisa got sick and then got hooked on a video game and didn't finish her homework, and everyone was going "Ian Maxtone Graham made a good Lisa episode?!?"

That was in the underrated Season 10,this was before Al Jean succeeded Mike Scully and made Lisa an Author Avatar.

She was among my favorite characters then,because at that time she wasn't preachy and actually treated like a girl. Another good Lisa episode of that time would be "They Saved Lisa's Brain", although Stephen Hawking kind overshadows her in that one.

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter

I don't.
In fact, she's one of my favorite characters.
I can get why others would dislike her, but I just don't.
...
I have surprisingly little to say on the subject.
... Huh.

Mega Man fanatic extraordinaire

Top three reasons why Lisa is my favorite Simpson:

3) I loves me some Deadpan Snarkers.

2) Because Lisa is smart and morally upright most of the time, when she does do something stupid, petty, or shallow it's ten times funnier.

1) Since she's supposed to be really intelligent, the writers can't just rely on "character says/does something really stupid" jokes with her, forcing the comedy and characterization to be a little smarter and more creative.

edited 23rd Nov '11 3:28:41 AM by RavenWilder

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko

Lisa Gets An A was a fun episode, also kinda well balanced, it shown Lisa acting in a flawed manner, but a lot of the cast turning out to be comically worse when she tries to redeem herself ("Hey it's not the money's fault you cheated"). I admit Mr Pinchy's sidestory stole the show a little though.

Most of Lisa's best episodes tend to have sentimentality as a defining point ("Lisa's Pony" and "Lisa's Substitute" are good examples). She can make the odd good humor-centric one though as shown with this.

edited 23rd Nov '11 5:02:06 AM by Psi001

All those arguments to justify Lisa can easily be relayed to Bart

For he to is

A) A Deadpan Snarker,however he is also just a regular snarker to which adds a bit more

B) Because Bart has limits,Lisa claims to be morally uptight,but she's really just Brian in the form of a girl. When Bart crosses the line,he tries to fix it. Because he is exected to do something stupid,the writers have to make him really go all-out such as the"Lotta Cooties wedding prank". Lisa always gets away with it. Besides he can always outdo The Wiggum and you get the same result

C) But if they try to do intelligent comedy,it doesn't work as well. Bart and Homer can be wild cards with their moments. It wouldn't be funny if Lisa could suddenly speak French in a matter of moments becuase that's what you expect. Smart characters just can't be wild cards. Besides Bart is actually fairly smart in his own right.

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter

Boring, preachy statist, know-it-all. I remember that episode where Homer wants to be elcted mayor, Lisa thinks she can be the one behind the curtains. She wants power.

No springs!Oh, and no redemption by the way!

I think the one point Lisa's intelligence perhaps stepped too far was when she started thwarting Sideshow Bob's plans instead of Bart, which was kind of his redeeming moment of high intelligence and resourcefulness.

As for Lisa being a Karma Houdini because she's intelligent, hard to say. When she was basically a female Bart in the shorts she still seemed to get punished less often by their parents (writers were completely against Homer strangling Lisa). If I remember correctly Marge tended to get called out for being an ass less often than Homer too. Dead Baby Comedy aside, female punishment is harder to make funny so is less frequent.

edited 24th Nov '11 6:37:31 PM by Psi001

As much as female punishment is hard to make funny, that doesn't mean we should not do it when necessary... Off-subject (I know that), but you make a valid point here.

Not that we don't see it aplenty in worse shows than this one we're talking about.

This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio

Oh for crying out loud... America may not be a perfect country, but that doesn't mean all of its inhabitants disdain intelligence. *heavy siiiiiiiiiigh*

I don't like Lisa because her voice gets on my nerves, she's preachy, and she's not funny. Other characters similar to her have become faves of mine, so I know it's not that ALL smart characters annoy me, but there's something about Lisa Simpson I just really can't stand. We've all got our stuff, but don't go bashing America over it. That's just... odd.

Hey, I wasn't bashing my country... This time, anyway (even though it's more than deserved).

edited 2nd Dec '11 3:54:48 PM by LostAnarchist

This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio

It's not just Americans who have problems. This Brit loathes her with a passion for the most part (the scene in "Marge Be Not Proud" when Lisa grumbles about how Bart gets a present before her won more sympathy for her than all of "Lisa The Simpson").

I've always lovde Lisa. The whole Simpson family is naturally my fav.

People seem to need "bouncing off the wall" characters in order for them to like them. There is a similar thing with Applejack of MLP, people find her laid back personality to be an issue. That and male writers can't seem to grasp how to give strong-minded female characters a decent story without tossing in everyone else that they think the character can reflect off of.

/rant

edited 9th Dec '12 2:29:22 PM by Bunai

As someone who loves AJ but hates Lisa,...I resent that.

AJ more resembles Marge than Lisa anyway. Lisa is more like if you merged the bad of both Twilight Sparkle (Holier Than Thou, hates being wrong,ridiculously tensed up) and Pinkie Pie (hyperactive,nosy) and then that baby got raised by wolves.

What she did to Bart all those years ago with that restraining order is a Moral Event Horizon,it doesn't matter if she's gotten better,...that episode did more damage to her than any of those s11-s12 eps did to Homer,.....that's saying a lot.

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter

I don't have time to read through every post here, but I love Lisa. Not to start some sort of debate, but characters with certain political views often get a lot of hate, especially if their creators share those views, since they are often accused of being their mouthpieces. (Matt Groening is ultra liberal). See also: Brian Griffin. I do feel that Lisa (and Brian) get an excessive amount of hate.

Um Matt Groening hasn't really been on the show since The '90s. The Lisa today is not the one Matt Groening envisioned.

Really this Lisa is Al Jean's mouthpiece and to be fair,Flanders gets quite a lot of hate from everyone but fundies for being such a fundie.

To a much lesser degree,Brian Griffin is this to Seth Mac Farlane,who hasn't really written an episode or actively done anything with the show since the 6th season,..but he's still the showrunner.

As divisive as political views are,the hate for Lisa is completely from how self-righteous she is,on everything. Back in the day she was The Straight Man and the humor was tha she was so darn precocious,with some Not So Above It All moments.

And when she overreacts,she really overreacts and reeks Disproportionate Retribution on everyone. Because she's a rebel just cuz most of the time,...this happens a bit.

At least Bart has some charm,and he knows when the hell to stop. He doesn't resort to abusive restraining orders (from "On A Clear Day I Can't See My Sister") or really emotional blackmail ("Million Dollar Abbie"/ that Dexter Colter episode).

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter

Well, this is what happens in a show that goes on way too goddamn long. you end having characters whose personalities undergo a change to "kick things up a notch."

edited 9th Dec '12 11:24:04 AM by VeniVidiPony

BUY A CAR FROM ME!

My big complaint is that with Lisa becoming the central character, suddenly we got the show doing the Poochie thing un-ironically. *coughLADYGAGAcough*

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

AJ from what I know tends to get flak due to being the least flawed of the main cast and more often played as a secondary Straight Man than a lead, so comes off a bit dull, in comparison at least (similar to Lisa, she was actually more abrasive in early episodes, if similarly by being a bit of a retooled clone of RD, the key troublemaker character).

I guess this may be what people see in Lisa at times, since she is known as one of the prime examples of Positive Discrimination (if arguably kept in check a lot more than others) and even a lot of times she is flawed she is still presented as right, so doesn't quite get the right pathos and development from it.

edited 9th Dec '12 5:40:56 PM by Psi001

Lisa is best compared to Lois Griffin rather than Brian Griffin,...for while Brian used to be treated that way,eventually the writers figured it out and quickly turned him into the Butt-Monkey after a well-deserved but hypocritical "The Reason You Suck" Speech.

Lisa has never been on the receiving end of those,unless you count the one sentence Ned said way back when before Maude died.

Instead like Lois Griffin,with very few exceptions she is treated as correct,when she clearly isn't above it all and maybe even worse than the so-called horrible people.

People hate Lisa for the same reason they either used to,still do,or gave on Homer back when Mike Scully ran the show. She literally dominates every episode and puts everyone else Out of Focus. Homer is lucky to get the B-Plot anymore.

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter