Why do Americans hate Lisa Simpson

@PSI I don't hate Lisa.

It's just that when characters don't get called out on things when they should, then that causes them to be hated. I only said how some people feel.

It's nice that the writers are trying to improve Lisa.

I understand that. Self righteousness in particular is a trait you have to handle gingerly in stories. Characters can be tolerable being lightly smug or forceful about being right at times, but it's still a form of arrogance. It shouldn't be encouraged any more so than standard narcissism so it still needs to be spotlighted at times. The best self righteous characters are those that can have points and be the Straight Man, but still have token cases they get way too assured of their own saintliness and suffer an ego check (eg. Twilight Sparkle).

This is why most of the characters on the Rightly Self-Righteous page are completely insufferable. The story is enabling them to act like jerks and still think they're good people all the time.

edited 9th May '15 1:25:17 PM by Psi001

God I never knew I could love someone like this but I love you a lot Allah! Sure I hoped you were Muslim but I had seen hints that you werent. But now I adore you even more! Im so glad an Atheist who is active online isnt like Christians are evil morons or at least wants a better and more nuanced portrayal of them.

Also how lovely that before his famous Flanderization it was hinted Rod and Tod ended up being gay and he was fine with it(Especially in the Seeing into the future episodes.). There was a good joke that relied on him being irked at Marge because he made Tod or Rod "Gay" but its SO SAD that this aspect was lost due to writers looking down on Religious people or feeling there are no religious people like Flanders IRL.

Dude...what

I like Lisa a lot myself, actually. You do tend to find that a lot of people who identify as her fans seem surprised and upset when she reveals herself to be, you know, a Simpson. Meaning very, very flawed.

It's funny, too, in that if you go back to the earliest episodes, and even moreso if you go into the Tracy Ullman shorts, Bart and Lisa were much different. Bart was more existential and Lisa wasn't so much an intellectual as downbeat and depressive. Bluesy, as it were.

Bart and Lisa were also more similar the further you go back. In a few cases they present a united front against their parents even to this day.

Well, I'm basically neutral on Lisa myself but I've never been the biggest Simpsons fan.

I have to say though, when a lot of the reasons come down to things like "she's political correct, and a vegetarian, and a Buddhist" as if those things are in and of themselves supposed to be bad, I can't take a lot of the discussion seriously.

I also feel the need to point out that people bitching on the internet is usually not very reflective of the people's as a whole general opinion.

A lot of the complaints her are also thrown at Brian (as you all like bringing up even if I don't think they necessarily fit) and he is definitely along with Stewie the most popular character on the show. So if you're basing your perceptions of a character's popularity on discussion on forums like this, you probably have a pretty getting a pretty skewed picture of things.

edited 25th May '15 10:58:33 AM by LSBK

I though Brian was disliked?

He doesn't have many people to compete with truthfully.

Granted the same could be said for Lisa.

edited 10th May '15 6:19:42 PM by Psi001

On the internet? Definitely. But in the real world it was a veritable shit storm when people thought he was killed off (and it was on the internet too) because most people who watched the show (or most shows) don't bitch about things on the internet, they just watch.

The people who complains in the Internet about shows is only a small fraction of the already very small fraction who actually cares about TV shows enough to actually care one way or another about their characters and beyond mere temporary entertainment.

edited 10th May '15 6:55:07 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

I think its because Lisa often ruins the fun for everyone. I mean. I remember there was one Halloween episode(I believe it was the first episode of Tree house of horror) where Kang and Kudos take the simpsons into space, and after thinking that they were cooking the simpsons. They ended up bringing the simpsons back to earth and the family ended up scolding at her for being 'too smart for your own good'.

To be fair, she only was in the wrong there because of a ridiculously contrived chain of events.

Was she wrong in any future or later episodes though? Non treehouse of horror episodes mind you.

You mean the eps that take place in the future? Well, she somehow became President of the US in "Bart to the Future".

As for later eps, the "Lisa has to be right" stuff didn't come into play until either Season 7's "Lisa the Vegetarian" or "Lisa the Simpson".

edited 10th May '15 7:52:40 PM by powerpuffbats

In fairness she was wrong in Lisa The Vegetarian". She even apologised for it.

As said most of the 'classic' era seasons after the first two or so tended to give her two or three moments she made a mistake at the very least.

edited 10th May '15 8:10:34 PM by Psi001

Lisa’s main flaw is that she has a pathological need to be perceived as everyone’s better with average kids she constantly calls them out for not sharing her interest while reminding the kids that do share her interest that she is their better. She once admitted that she only plays the sax to make herself look better to other people. This was fine during the early episodes when this mentality was treated as a flaw. Whenever someone proves to be better than Lisa or has something she wants she will usually sabotage them. In the early seasons she would receive laser guided karma. When she ruined the exhibit of the girl who skipped a grade Ralph ended up winning the fair. When jealous of Bart’s popularity in kid’s news she sent him to someone who tried to kill him. Kid’s news ended up being canceled.

However as the series went on Lisa stopped receiving her come upends Maggie isn’t smarter then lisa. Lisa can perform magic shadow puppets to give her the answers. Bart agrees to stay crippled so that he’s no longer a better musician then her. The general thesis is that the reason Americans hate Lisa Simpson is that while everyone else has been flanderized she remains the same. While that is the basis of it the real reason is that by ignoring her flaws the creators bring more attention to them. In the beginning she was just another flawed character among many but now she stands out because her misunderstood intellectual personality no longer works. She has no friends because the other kids have legitimate reasons not to like her and her acting like Homer and Marge neglect her is just annoying because she is obviously their favorite.

For me I didn’t really hate her because of this I just became indifferent to her. What really got me to stop liking her is they started to derail Bart to make her look better. All of Bart’s positive attributes were taken away from him and given to lisa. She became the one to stop Sideshow Bob, she became the one who could instantly learn different Language, while Bart was turned to a blistering idiot. It came to head in season 24 where every episode would give a different reason for why Lisa was better then Bart.

While its been turned down recently with Bart being given back book dumb status and Lisa being called out more she still has many instances of being a karma Houdini.

This leads to another question have you noticed that Lisa popularity is directly proportional to Bart’s intelligence

Lisa suffers fromc ahracter derailemnt, she did have her flaws but she was an otherwise well rounded character. nowadays, Lisa is essentially flawles or a mouthpiece.

Also when she becomes an unlikable Jerkass, she gets no comeuppance. Like in "On A Clear Day, I Can't See My Sister" she completely harasses Bart with her own restraining order (also she's violating her own order), and does not even get punished for her own jerkassery (yet Homer and Bart get yelled at for being jerks to Lisa and Marge, but when Lisa and Marge become jerks to them it's okay).

I used to like Lisa because I thought she reminded me a lot of myself in some ways, as we're both intelligent and personally view/viewed ourselves as smarter than our older brothers, though now that I've seen recent episodes, I've begun to see her as no better than Regina George. I used to think that her actions towards Bart were always justified, since, I do have an older brother myself, after all, though I've noticed that now, unless the plot calls for it, she doesn't seem to care about Bart as much as she did in earlier seasons. In fact, it's gotten to the point where it seems that Bart cares more about Lisa than she does him, and considering earlier seasons and episodes, that really is kind of sad. Not only that, but I personally find most Lisa episodes to be boring. Half the time, she's on strike against something, or complaining about something, and going to unnecessary levels for an eight-year old girl just to get her way. I could give numerous examples, though I think it'd be better if you just looked at 'Wall Bangers' or 'Dethroning Moments' on the Simpsons page. That, and I hate how she's usually portrayed as flawless. It's hard to think that there was actually an episode from season ten where Lisa cheats on a test, and actually feels guilty about it, and yet now, she's pretty much the angel. Nowadays, Lisa Marie Simpson is an absolute 'flawless' brat who never has any consequences for her actions.

Why? Cause she's a slut who whore her way to main character slot and deserve to die!

Anyway, on serious note, the reason is because of how recent writers treat her as their personal sockpuppet for reflecting their idealogy (which is the same reason Brian is hated, but I think we all should know that by now).

Lisa in the past has been portrayed as the Only Sane Man to the rest of the cast, which serves as a nice change of pace for the Simpson family. She is intelligent, cultured in art and music, and have a more progressive view point. However in those past episodes she have some of those qualities balenced out. Though she is smart, she isn't at Dexter level of intelligence (as shown in that episode where she got moved up to the 3rd only to not handle the grade well compared to her dumb brother who bumped down). Her cultural enriching lifestyle makes it hard for her to relate entirely with her family (especially towards Homer, who she often viewed as her opposite). And while she is progressive in terms of politics, spiritual beliefs and lifestyle, she wasn't exactly open to people having different set of morals as her (excellently portrayed in "Lisa the Vegetarian" where Homer of all people call her out on forcing everybody to be vegetarian). Also, she is still just a kid (meaning she will still do some juvenile things like watching cartoons and eating lots of sugar). These drawbacks to her positive traits made her seen as a relatable character (same for the other characters in this show) as she represent the audience who enjoy this show (specifically the intelligent outsider crowd) as it grounds her as being a normal but still flawed person.

Lisa now have most of those flaws dialed back and invoke to be a politically active nerd who is there to point out all the wrongs with the town's overall stupidity. I know she can be wise beyond years from time to time, but to the point where she is considered among the smartest of the town? That is ridiculous. She's a kid for god sake; she shouldn't be able to out smart people with years of education and read Stephen Hawkins book as a leisurous activities. And lets not forget the moments where she is portrayed as always being in the right.

So that's the reason why people hate Lisa: her "development" from an endearing, smart character who we all can relate with to an one dimensional mouthpiece to voice all the wrongs in the world.

edited 7th Aug '15 11:43:53 AM by BigK1337

I'm going to be honest and admit I always savoured those odd points Bart or Homer called Lisa out on her crap or she was made to look like a pompous fool. It might just be forced habit to root against the guy who always wins every feud and keeps their dignity, especially when they can be rather smug or priggish about it. Generally the only exceptions tend to be meaner humour when the 'dumb jerk' they are pit against is a Karma Houdini, which is rare for Lisa (Bart teases her but ineffectually).

I think this might be often why the Straight Man tends to be constantly at odds with the audience, they're often not the guy people get endeared by.

edited 7th Aug '15 12:54:16 PM by Psi001

I'm going to agree that her basically being Brian nowadays is also why people hate her.

To be honest I really hated what happened to both characters in their respective series. Brian and Lisa used to be the straight men to everyone else although they weren't so above the very thing that they. It seems after a few seasons they stopped being characters and more like mouth pieces for whatever nonsense the writers want to talk about.

Why do cartoon writers think that using mouth pieces like Lisa Simpson and Brian (FG) to express themselves like SJ Ws is smart / thought - provoking, when in reality it just makes them look like exceptional individuals who end up making the opposition they're preaching against look smart, as well as more sane than them in the end?!

Seriously, now. That's NOT funny. That's STUPID.

edited 7th Aug '15 4:10:32 PM by Shokew