The Plot:

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1 Ironeye28th Feb 2010 04:31:51 AM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
aka What Ironeye does to amuse himself while everyone else does something important.

So, yeah, here's our thread in which to discuss the plot of the story, outline the seasons, and so forth. Let's start off with what I have, beginning with the updated plot chart. In this case, I've grouped events by season, starting with blue for the backstory (or events that may technically happen during the show but are part of subplots that don't become important till much later). From there, it's purple, purple-red, orange-red, orange, yellow, yellow-green, bluish green, and light blue in season order. Some events don't have a fixed season, and thus don't fit into a bubble, but they will probably end up in one of the bubbles that they are close to.

Note that each season here is on the short side—maybe 12 episodes—in contrast to the 26-episode seasons from before. Hence, while there are more seasons than we've ever had before, there are actually much fewer episodes.

Season 1

The first season is effectively the origin story for the team. Rather than going through the events that got them together, we instead begin with the last member joining and continue to the point where they make their first big impression on the world by defeating the Wicked Witch of the West. This season is really where we get to establish the tone, setting, and characters  *. The team spends the season traveling in a loop that takes them through Baton Rouge, along the Gulf Coast, inland to Ft. Knox, out to Kansas, and back to Louisiana.

We can have all sorts of US-based villains in this season, but The Big Bad is the Wicked Witch of the West, with Ganondorf as The Dragon and Tybalt a general flunky. Also appearing are the Huntsmen of Annuvin as her Elite Mooks, the occasional flying monkey, The Heartless as both mooks and a source of extra energy, and a hydra bewitched for use in terrorizing towns (lured to Louisiana along the coast from Virginia by the Wicked Witch, defeated by the team in the pilot, and recovered to be regrown).

Some antagonists/subplots that have been brought up:
  • Dr. Facilier, who has managed to get quite a bit of influence in New Orleans.
  • Special Agent Carrera, a Knight Templar US Marshal who has been trying to track down Hikari; if she returns for a second episode (or more!), she is a potential ally in the finale.
  • Several old-school Batman villains all attempt to rob Ft. Knox at the same time; Hilarity Ensues

Occasionally (perhaps once or twice) during the season, the team gets anonymous messages that help them in their journeys. In the finale, they are revealed to be from Korgmeister, who has been aiding them in the hope that they would prove their worth by defeating the Wicked Witch. After their victory, he recruits them to join TV Tropes.

Season 2

The second season opens with the introduction of a few new faces for both the heroes and the villains. The team goes to the TV Tropes HQ in the Bahamas, where Fast Eddie and Janitor welcome them and explain the history of the organization. After the Convergence they decided to start observing cataloging information about fictites (from the source material) in order to aid in fighting with/bargaining with/evading them. They started with Television, later expanding to other media once they realized how successful their project was. With their Database quickly growing due to the contributions of numerous normal people, they decided to use their information to strike back against rogue fictites. Korgmeister was one of a few federal agents unofficially assigned to the organization to help with training, recruitment, and general support; the main characters were his first big catch.

Meanwhile, on the villain side of things, the sinister Dark Lodge (finally revealed in this season premiere) is in disarray over the loss of one of its members. Previously, it had been in a bit of an unstable equilibrium because its membership of five always ensured that any alliance could be squashed by the other three, while any group of three would never be able to stay loyal. The loss of the Wicked Witch disrupted this balance, leaving the Lodge in danger of tearing itself apart. Fortunately (or unfortunately, really), Tybalt arrives an announces the ascension of a new Lodge member: Ganondorf, who replaces his former boss.

Back with our heroes, the team is sent to discover what they can about the dealings of the Wicked Witch in order to identify the other members of the Dark Lodge. Helping them along are three TV Tropes members:
  • Korg, who works as their Mission Control
  • Fawriel, one of Eddie's first agents, who has been left in the awkward position of having a partner who is no longer interested in fighting  *
  • Jinxed, a young thief and hacker who was picked up by Fawriel in France and who is interested in helping her "daddy" with his work

The team's investigations lead them to Fairy Godmother Industries in California, some painful memories for Ironeye and Kara, and a young man named Gabriel who shows quite a bit of interest in joining their group. Before the team can establish a solid link between the quasi-benevolent Fairy Godmother and the supremely wicked Wicked Witch, they are notified that Ganondorf is going around doing his evil thing, making him the new Big Bad.

Potential season features include:
  • The death of Ironeye's brother (either in the main timeline or in a flashback)
  • How Ironeye met Kara (flashback)
  • Toontown!
  • Gabriel revealing that he:
    • Is a telepath
    • Was hired by a young woman named Mynah Murray to spy on the team after they defeated the Wicked Witch
  • The team setting a trap for Mynah, only for her to escape and leaving the question of who she was working for
  • Tybalt escaping yet again.
  • Ganondorf getting defeated

Season 3

With all 11 of the main characters already established, Season 3 focuses quite a bit more on plot. Following the events of Season 2, the Fairy Godmother has taken Ganondorf's remaining Heartless and miscellaneous minions to Europe for an unknown purpose. The team heads off to Europe, where it encounters Sherlock Holmes. The famous detective is on the trail of his nemesis, Professor Moriarty, in France, having been forced to flee England due to the Master's totalitarian rule.

In England, the team finds itself thrust into a war between the Master (also a member of the Dark Lodge) and the fey forces of Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. It turns out that the Fairy Godmother has always wanted the Fairytale land of the British Isles to herself, and has thrown her forces behind the rebels against her Lodge ally. Beyond that, the Master has been using Moriarty to prepare to take over the mainland via subterfuge. In the end, Moriarty, the Fairy Godmother, and the Master are all defeated, and a much more benevolent ruler is found for the Brits.

Possible features:
  • While sneaking into London with Holmes, the team is stalked by what is later revealed to be Dracula, who is helping the Master deal with the rebel network in the cities.
  • The magical forces aligned against the Master have leadership issues: Artemis Fowl, the Fairy Godmother, and Morgan le Fey all have good reason to distrust each other.
  • Grey and Gray Morality is in full effect for this conflict: while the Master is a dictator, he also protects the people of England from all of the rogue monsters and malevolent magical beings that would endanger them. The fey forces, on the other hand, would free the people from the Master's iron grip, but would also leave everyone vulnerable to aforementioned beasties. Freedom and Magic? Or Order and Technology?

Season 4

The fourth season follows the main team as they take on the next member of the Dark Lodge: Dr Doom. Doom (actually a Doombot) plans to up the stakes by killing The World Tree and destroying the Fourthress. Plot-wise, this season isn't planned out much aside from what is listed above, though presumably there will be a lot of other missions in Europe.

Regarding The World Tree, we're not yet entirely sure how it's connected to the rest of the story, exactly, but we do know that it telepathically contacts Murky Muse either in this season or earlier.

The Season 4 finale is the attack on the Fourthress, which fails in part because Doom decides that capturing Jinxed would be a good idea, not realizing that she can fry him. Oops!

Season 5

Season 5 ties up the Dark Lodge story, and would serve as a decent final season if we decide to cut off the project early. Sure, some of the character subplots wouldn't be resolved, and it would never be quite clear just what Tybalt was up to (though it is really easy to just write him off as being that insane—yay!), but the main plot would reach a satisfying conclusion. Anyway, the content:

The fifth season is all about Dracula. After the defeat of all of his rivals in the Dark Lodge, he has consolidated all of the remaining minions under his control and is amassing his power at Castlevania in Transylvania. Fortunately for our heroes, he isn't really doing much in the way of world-conquering at this point, after seeing just how much good an offense did for the Doombot. Rather, he plans to be more subtle about the whole thing, and realizes that he's quite safe in Castlevania. Why? Because Castlevania was produced by a rift in the Fourth Wall (of course) that makes its layout shuffle regularly, making it extremely difficult to capture. Additionally, while the rift is smaller than it once was, the sheer number of fictional beings congregating nearby is making it unstable, making something like bombing the place to smithereens out of the question. Just how are the forces of all that is good (and quite a bit that isn't) going to handle this?

Answer: by sneaking a team into Castlevania to kill the Count and redirect the rift back to the Fourthress, thereby allowing assorted armies to liquefy the place without any danger of the rift getting large enough to swallow up a small country. But wait, you say, how is the team going to manage that? After all, no outsider would ever be able to get through the castle if the layout constantly changes. The answer is Jareth, the Goblin King, master of mazes, he who never gets lost, etc.

Fortunately for our heroes, they ran into Jareth a while back (Season 2, maybe?) when he tried to capture Jinxed. The bad news is that he got tired of ruling a bunch of comic-relief characters, and decided to get into acting.  * They track him to a theater that's being menaced by The Phantom of the Opera, who doesn't take kindly to the idea of the leading man leaving. (Cue musical episode.) Everyone (and I do mean everyone—the main character, Tybalt, Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, the Phantom, and Jareth) converge at a masquerade ball where Holmes fakes his death, both the Phantom and Tybalt kill people (complicating the mystery), and Dracula shows just how powerful he is.

Fortunately, our heroes escape with Jareth in tow and get his help navigating the labyrinthine corridors of Castlevania. There, the team encounters Death, The Dragon to Dracula. Fortunately for them, Death isn't at all interested in helping the Count and merely serves him because she is bound to him. (Yes, Death is a woman, specifically a perky goth chick who does the whole Grim Reaper shtick because that's what everyone expects, and she's one of the most powerful characters on the show.) Though he bond to Dracula prevents her from working against Dracula, she does give them tips for taking out the Vampire Council, Dracula's dysfunctional Quirky Miniboss Squad of assorted evil vampires who have been menacing the team throughout the season. Fortunately for the team, the Castlevania rift warps the laws of physics around it to match action-horror movies, making everyone into a Badass. Dracula is defeated, Death is freed, the rift is sealed, everyone can go home knowing that the Dark Lodge is no more, and Tybalt is still at large. That last bit is quite important for...Season 6.

Season 6

So, everything is fine and dandy after the defeat of the Dark Lodge, right? Wrong! Right off the bat, the Data Vampires attack the Database (causing the Great Crash), Kara gets poisoned, and it becomes clear that it was an inside job. It turns out that it was Matrix, who had a nice long chat with Tybalt at the end of last season and has become the villainous Darth Matrix (dying his fur accordingly). The team tracks him down and is able to extract information about the poison from him and runs off to China to find the antidote. The question is raised: why use a poison that doesn't kill?

The answer: because Tybalt is planning to attack the Bahamas HQ with the remaining Dark Lodge minions and wants everyone as distracted as possible. Of course, Tybalt's small army isn't enough to defeat TV Tropes, even with many of its key members on missions and demoralized; Tybalt has an ace in the hole: Eddie.

Yes, it turns out that Eddie was an AI programmed for a purpose not immediately known, but later reprogrammed to be the benevolent leader of TV Tropes. The Data Vampires wiped some of Eddie's programming during the attack on the Database, creating a hybridized version that strongly resembles the original. Eddie the Corrupted has been working with Tybalt, and will subvert the base's security system during the attack. Helping Eddie along in this is Ironeye, who in earlier seasons already showed his willingness to take secret orders from multiple superiors.

With Kara cured, the season finale focuses on Tybalt's attack. A lot of the secondary characters come out of the wordwork to take on Tybalt's forces. Ironeye and Janitor, having realized Eddie's treachery, take Jinxed to go fry him, but they are interrupted by Tybalt and Matrix. Jinxed stays behind to try and convert Matrix back to team good while Janitor fights Tybalt and Ironeye pushes on to overheat Eddie's hardware (see: every time the team has fought a robot and Korg has told him to use his power on the heat sinks). Jinxed convinces Matrix that the team does take like him for more than just his comic relief (awwwww!), but Tybalt manages to capture Janitor (booo!).

Season 7

Season 7 opens with the tropes in their trashed HQ now having to face Tybalt's bosses: Org &&& (no, seriously, we don't have a name for this organization yet, so I'll be using the triple @ until we do). Org &&& is an organization of both humans and fictites (including David Xanatos) that has been manipulating events from the start. Subordinates include Dark Lodge agents Revolver Ocelot (who is promptly executed after helping Tybalt attack the troper base—these guys are Genre Savvy enough to realize that he's bad news) and Tybalt, the mysterious Section IV (which recruited Gabriel to spy on the main characters back in Season 2), the Data Vampires, and even the TV Tropes leaders. It turns out that Eddie and Janitor were sent to found TV Tropes as an organization to help Org &&& catalog fictites, but they decided to take advantage of their resources to actually do something about the fictite problem.

Org &&& was actually manipulating the Dark Lodge all along. The plan was to use the Dark Lodge (and similar organizations, none of which are dealt with by this particular team) to secure sections of the world before using other agents to topple the Lodge members and establish puppet governments that would act for the greater good. Yep, Well Intentioned Extremists ahoy! Org &&& tolerated the actions of Janitor and Eddie (and even helped the team out indirectly, particularly against the Doombot) so long as TV Tropes didn't interfere with their plans. Dropping Dracula too early was the last straw, though, so Org &&& used Tybalt and the Data Vampires to bring down Eddie and capture Janitor, not minding the loss of the Database because they had a copy.

As the tropers struggle to put things back together in the aftermath of Season 6, Kara has a breakdown caused by her brush with death in that season. Unable to help her (as opposed to last season, when he could search for the antidote) and still reeling from realization that he wasn't helping the Eddie he knew, Ironeye cuts himself off from everyone else and starts becoming more of a Jerkass. He eventually gives Hikari a "The Reason You Suck" Speech,toys with Hikari in a fight when the latter gives into his rage, and is only stopped by Fawriel and Murky stepping in. Faced with his frustration at the team being crippled (in more ways than one), he joins Org &&& to help them restore order to the world.

Meanwhile, the team tries to bring down Org &&& in a case of Grey and Gray Morality, particularly the Ironeye vs. Kara fight. In the finale, Section IV (and some other Org &&& agents) betray Org &&& and begins the final stage of its plan to take over the world.

Season 8

Season 8 brings the show back to some good old Good versus Evil action. The villains clearly must be stopped, and the heroes now have the support of Org &&& (or, really, what's left of it) as they try to bring down the biggest bads of them all. The villain roster includes:
  • Martin Murray, head of Section IV, who intends to betray the others so that he can rule the world alone
    • Mynah Murray, Martin's kind-hearted sister and Gabriel's former handler, who is trying (and failing miserably) to keep her brother on the path of good. If anything, she's more a prisoner than an opponent.
  • Tybalt, Prince of Cats, and all around psycho, who just wants to kill things
  • The Big Bad (as of yet unnamed), who intends to gain the power to bring things across the Fourth Wall at a whim.
  • Ironeye, who joined Martin in the Season 7 finale to save his own skin, and who is a Double Agent who occasionally slips information to the heroes and fakes a loss of his sanity to avoid too much attention
There are others, of course, but this is so far in the future that the lineup hasn't been decided yet. Later in the season, Hikari, who had been questioning his worldview since his fight with Ironeye, surrenders to his demon, who promptly joins Section IV. The realization that he screwed over Hikari sends Ironeye into a depression, and he resolves to actually take a stand and fix this mess instead of acting like a Depraved Homosexual and doing the minimum needed to convince both sides that he's not on the other team.

This brings us to the series finale. Janitor breaks out, kicks a lot of ass, and reveals that Eddie did in fact have a backup in the event of an emergency like part of his programming being wiped. The team shows up to lay the smackdown on everyone (and does). Ironeye goes to face Hikari, but at the last moment, rather than killing him (thereby ensuring that the demon would also die), he instead drops the gun and starts lecturing Hikari and the demon about how they got entirely the wrong message from his last lecture (be a cynical bastard instead of play the long game). Through a display of Heroic Spirit, Ironeye manages to get to Hikari even after being slashed up by Razor Wind, and gives him a hug (see:every time arks did that to bring Hikari back), which gives Hikari the willpower needed to reassert himself over the demon. Kara shows up in time to heal Ironeye, but his fate is left ambiguous until the denouement. Gabriel saves Mynah, the team lays the smackdown on Section IV, and the world is saved!

What happens to everyone?
  • Faw and Murky adopt Jinxed and leave to find Murky's parents (revealed as alive back in Season 4 by the world tree)
  • Gabriel and Mynah go do their thing (not make babies—they're just friends, kids!)
  • Korg retires back in Australia, where he is handsomely rewarded for his work. He ends up making a radio show about his adventures, which he must publish as fiction due to secrecy issues. They become a hit, and he is stuck alone in a mansion with his mother and everything he ever wanted, which disappoints him greatly because he thought that he surely wasn't going to get a happy ending.
  • Hikari returns to his parents.
  • Janitor and Eddie help rebuild TV Tropes.
  • Kara and Ironeye, with Matrix in tow, return to Los Angeles to help rebuild.
  • Cody and arks...umm...we don't know.
Of course all of these endings are subject to change even more so than everything else.

Events that don't have an approximate place in the timeline yet

The "Code White" Incident

Early in Season 2, Ironeye and Korg have a private conversation about something that is not revealed to the audience or any of the other characters. Not much is made of this until later, when Hikari faces his first unintentional use of the Wind of Light after joining TV Tropes. Hikari realizes that his hold is slipping and tells everyone, leading Korg to declare "Code White". Ironeye, who has been appointed Hikari's unofficial minder by Korg, draws his pistol on Hikari and tells him to hold on and keep the Wind under control. When things look like they're getting worse, he prepares to fire, only for Hikari to pull it off at the last second.

The team is questioning what "Code White" is when they notice that Ironeye has drawn his gun and had pointed it at Hikari. They put two and two together and get dysfunction. Kara and Korg get into an argument over who has true authority over the team. Korg and Ironeye get into an argument over Ironeye waiting until the last possible moment. Kara and Ironeye get into an argument over Ironeye going behind Kara's back. Hikari has a Heroic B.S.O.D. due to shame over almost forcing his best friend to kill him and due to having to face the previously unthinkable thought of losing control of the Wind. And things only get worse from there...

We intentionally gave the three key players flaws in their arguments/actions:
  • Kara thinks that Ironeye shouldn't have been using immediately lethal force and instead should have gone for mortally wounding Hikari so that she could save him. Problem: A non-lethal shot wouldn't be able to drop him in time and would most likely set him off, so to speak.
  • Korg thinks Ironeye should have pulled the trigger the moment Code White was declared. Problem: Hikari is perfectly capable of holding on for longer than it takes for Korg to give the order, so had Ironeye obeyed exactly, Hikari would have died unnecessarily.
  • Ironeye isn't able to pull the trigger immediately when he thinks it's time, taking a few seconds to work himself up to it. Problem: He'll always pull the trigger later than he thinks he ought to, and he's gambling with his own life.
Hikari starts questioning his commitment to idealism, which Korg gets rather smug about.

edited 24th Mar '10 12:50:50 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
nah i dont thiscould work.sorry, i gave up being a good person too cool
men talk of killing time, while time quietly kills them
3 Ironeye3rd Mar 2010 11:50:20 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Alright, that's all updated.

Is anyone other than Bobby interested in joining me here in for the Plot and Recurring Fictites Committee? Everyone else is welcome to contribute, of course, but I'm talking about voting members.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
4 Karalora4th Mar 2010 10:23:19 AM from San Fernando Valley, CA , Relationship Status: In another castle
Manliest Person on Skype
I'm still of the opinion that as the Big Dawg, I am on all the major decision-making committees by default, even if my actual input is limited to which color ink I use on my rubber stamp.

As the tropers struggle to put things back together in the aftermath of Season 6, Kara has a breakdown caused by her brush with death in that season.

We need to be careful with the portrayal here so that she doesn't come across as someone who was only pretending to be tough all this time but turned out to actually be fragile and unable to withstand personal threats. We need to emphasize that the cause of her angst is a feeling of personal failure—she failed to protect herself, leaving her team with no one taking care of them. Compound that with the fact that the attack came in her home, from the person she would least suspect. It's not that she suddenly ohmigod has to face reality, it's that a lot of security she took for granted—and rightly so, because you can't go around suspecting your family members and teammates of waiting to shank you in the hallway at home—has just been taken away. In some ways it's very similar to what happened to her on C-Day.
5 Ironeye7th Mar 2010 02:51:20 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
The plot committee (all two of us) have reached the consensus that Professor Moriarty will lay low for most of S3 and be revealed in S4 to have joined the Dark Lodge back in S3. He will be one of the two main villains in S4 (along with the Doombot).
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
6 Ironeye7th Mar 2010 05:09:33 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Here's a new version of the World Tree and Santa stuff that a few of us Kara came up with.

The world tree has a few key properties:
  • It is Axis Mundi—that which connects the realms. It exists simultaneously in Reality, Fiction, and Imagination. The tree is its own rift.
  • It has a soothing effect on those who come near it, so long as they open themselves to it.
  • It produces the seeds of every Spermatophyte (seed plant) in the world.
  • Due to its state of existence in multiple realms, it cannot be destroyed via normal means.
  • It can only communicate through dream-like visions.

The World Tree subplot begins with it contacting Fawriel in a vision (since his mind is the least constrained by human social conventions, or human thought in general, for that matter). It turns out that Dr. Doom is trying to destroy the World Tree so he can get a rift under his control—the EU has been pretty good at redirecting the open rifts to the Forthtress, leaving the Lodge's only rift under the control of Count Dracula (Doom's chief rival in the Lodge). There's just one problem: Doom hasn't found a way to destroy the Tree yet.

The key to the tree's secrets is Santa Claus. Among his other traits, Santa also has part of Odin in him, but since his dominant portrayal is the modern one, the Odin persona is repressed. Tybalt kidnaps Santa so that Doom can hang him from the World Tree and awaken Odin's knowledge, particularly knowledge of how the Tree can be killed. Fortunately, the team arrives in time to save Santa and ensure that the Dark Lodge will not discover Odin's secrets.

The Tree appears again in the series finale as part of the Big Bad's plan to master the Fourth Wall. It ends up retreating back over the Fourth Wall as part of the Wall getting sealed up, but it leaves behind a seed to grow another.

edited 7th Mar '10 5:10:12 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
7 Ironeye24th Mar 2010 01:10:30 AM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Alright, Plot Committee (all one of you)! It's time to deal with the fictite lists so that we can clear out the corresponding pages.

Proposed Recurring Fictites and Fictite List both have lists of fictites that we'll need to go through. Everyone can contribute, of course, but the final decision will come down to me and Bobby (with Kara carrying veto power over the list of characters we choose to include). Let's hit up the first page to begin.

Dracula, the Master, the Fairy Godmother, the Wicked Witch, Death, and Sherlock Holmes are all currently written in more or less as listed (aside from Season numbers). Do we want to keep the current descriptions?

Professor Moriarty, David Xanatos, and Santa all are written in with different roles than as listed. Do we want to keep the current material.

Kefka Palazzo is slated to some listed. Do we still want to include him?

For everyone else, should they stay on the cutting room floor or should we use them as plot-important/recurring characters?

edited 24th Mar '10 1:10:42 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
vigilantly taxonomish
Dracula, the Master, the Fairy Godmother, the Wicked Witch and Sherlock Holmes I'm totally happy with. Death seems mostly OK, although she chiefly appears to be based on the interpretation from Sandman, a work with which I am not familiar (perhaps we could give her Gregg the Grim Reaper's penchant for British curse words and hatred of the undead? The latter, in particular, could be amusing, given the circumstances).

I think it goes without saying that I'd like the new interpretations of Moriarty, Xanatos and Santa to take precedence over the old ones.

Kefka, I see no problems with. But wot no Sephiroth?

One thing of which I think we should be mindful of is the issue of how powerful any given fictite is. I have this idea in mind that as the Fourth Wall gets weaker, more and more powerful fictites will find it easier to pass through, in theory approaching the point where all the different fictional realities would literally tear the world apart, were it not for the heroes' efforts. For that reason, I think we should be sparing with the more powerful fictites at first, and save those for later seasons.

Now with regards to the others...

Owen, Artemis, Deadpool, Umbridge, Gene, the Ghostbusters, Rincewind, the Luggage, Watson and Sunday, I have no problem with appearing as proposed. Lady Onba and Richter Abend have potential, but I'm a little unsure about them; Onba in particular seems problematic, given how powerful she appears to be and the fact that her proposed appearance seems to involve hijacking the plot somewhat. I can't remember - did we ever decide what to do about the Weird Sisters? Otherwise, I see no reason to lose them.
9 HikarinoKaze24th Mar 2010 12:24:13 PM from The Land of Maple Syrup
In the defense of Onba, she was relevant when she was proposed. ^_^

If I recall correctly, someone was slated to disappear, have a changing experience, and come back. However, that was the extent of the detail. So, I proposed that he be sent on a Vision Quest... to Vision, where Onba would serve as his combination Treacherous Advisor and Vamp, like she did to Wataru in the book. She would be recurring because bits of the Vision Quest were to be shown over time or something like that.

In any case, she's been quite irrelevant ever since the reboot. No point in keeping her around, unless someone needs a Vision Quest.

edited 24th Mar '10 12:24:39 PM by Hikari no Kaze

-*whooooooosh* Nin nin! [1]
10 Ironeye24th Mar 2010 01:22:27 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Let's see, pulling from my mental notes from before the plot reboot and adding new bits relevant to the reorganized plot and much shorter season length (ie two hours instead of 17 hours):
  • Owen had such a minor role in the first place that he was slated to stay
  • Artemis is penciled in pretty much as proposed
  • Deadpool was supposed to be reduced to a one-scene reference since the "joke", so to speak, didn't depend on him appearing more than once.
  • Richter's proposal is currently on its third draft. Yes, this is the most plausible version of what he's up to. (Well, it was until the plot rewrite made this one nonsensical.) The problem with all of Richter's proposals was that they depended on the character knowing the plot of the show because...umm...he didn't have anything to do if he didn't? It was never explained how he knew that the Dark Lodge was behind Section IV  *, or how he managed to get recruited by/casually chat with the on-duty secretary of a secretive organization that didn't have any need for his skills. So, yeah, his role involved a bit of Fridge Logic in the first place, didn't add anything to the story, and now has no connection to his motivation due the organizations changing in role.
  • Umbridge as proposed was supposed to be one of the major characters in the B plot for the entire first half of the series. Obviously that isn't happening, and using her as written might get her a single scene—obviously not a recurring character. Beyond that, we have this cool Magic vs. Technology theme going in the British Civil War season, and Umbridge kinda ruins that.  *
  • Gene as written is dependent on Xanatos being The Big Bad, which is obviously no longer the case. Additionally, the reason for inclusion is something along the lines of "Gene would be really cool", something that makes him a good choice to cut considering that Revolver Ocelot (from the other page) is a Metal Gear series character who is:
    • Much better known
    • Actually serves the plot by appearing
  • The Ghostbusters were slated to be reduced to one-scene characters because they didn't really have a point—they primarily served to give the main characters allies without really adding to the team in any way. (Contrast with Holmes, who actually works as an ally because he and the team do completely different kinds of work.)
  • Lady Onba was slated to be cut even with the longer episode/season length because she would derail the story too much just getting through the necessary exposition to explain how her powers work and what she's trying to do.
  • The Weird Sisters have been very lightly penciled in as former Dark Lodge members. It is worth noting that they'd be the 2-4 characters explicitly referred to as witches, as well as the 4-6 who are witches (explicitly or effectively)—they don't exactly fill a fictite niche that we aren't already covering. We should probably find a better Shakespeare character to use.
  • Rincewind and the Luggage—they're more like running gag characters, anyway, so we should pass them off to...someone (perhaps I should make a wiki page for background characters...)
  • Professor Sunday's role is based around Xelloss being present (which he hasn't been, for about 11 months now) and I distinctly recall him being proposed because the show didn't have enough Enigmatic Minion types (you know, aside from the three or so we did have at that point). Right now the proposal is pretty much "he shows up, smirks knowingly, then disappears for a few episodes before doing it again"—no plot relevance and and no point (aside from OMG it's Professor Sunday, of course). Obviously I'd like to cut him.

Re: Death: Death is a huge hybrid. When she has the robe and hood on, she's more or less the Good Omens Death with more than a hint of Discworld Death (they're pretty similar). With the hood off, she looks and acts like Sandman Death. Her role in the whole mess is based on Castlevania Death. There are abilities and personality quirks from Grim Fandango, Good Omens, Discworld, Guantlet, and Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey. After she's freed from Dracula, she pulls a Discworld Death again to take care of the Irregular Webcomic! Deaths. Really, I'd say she's so much of a mish-mash that you don't really have to worry about not being especially familiar with the Sandman version: this image tells you pretty much everything you need to know about that.

edited 24th Mar '10 1:31:56 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
11 Ironeye24th Mar 2010 04:24:39 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
I suppose a quick summary is in order:
  • Keep: Dracula, the Master, the Wicked Witch, the Fairy Godmother, Death, Kefka, Moriarty, Artemis Fowl, David Xanatos, Santa, Holmes
  • Neutral  *: Owen
  • Oppose: Dolores Umbridge, Gene, the Ghostbusters, Lady Onba, Richter Abend, Watson  *, the Weird Sisters, Professor Sunday
  • Switch to one-shot/gag: Deadpool, Rincewind and the Luggage
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
vigilantly taxonomish
Sounds good to me. I would like to see Rincewind more than once, but he's not a plot character, anyway.
13 Ironeye24th Mar 2010 05:47:19 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Yeah, the Rincewind gag only works if he appears three or four times, but the nice bit with him is that aside from his final appearance, we can pretty much throw him in whenever we feel like it.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
14 Ironeye25th Mar 2010 12:14:11 AM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Alright, I moved Deadpool, Rincewind, and the Luggage to the newly created One Scene Reference And Background Gag Bin. (Fill 'er up!) The Fictite List now holds the actual list of fictites. The list that was formerly there—which we'll be tackling next—has been moved to Proposed Recurring Fictites.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
vigilantly taxonomish
Ah, the lists. I'd been meaning to ask about that.

Given the reboot, changes in circumstances and so on, my list no longer reflects my opinions at all. I'd be surprised if this wasn't true of other people currently involved, especially since they aren't the same people who were involved when the list was made.

I propose that we redo those.
16 JinxedBlackcat29th Mar 2010 07:44:07 PM from Blurry Edges of Genderfluidity , Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Ultimate Bifauxnen
Hey Ironeye I've got a plot question for ya.

When/why does Jareth try to steal Jinx?
Caution! This Troper contains high levels of Moe. Please consult your doctor before hugging.
17 Ironeye3rd Apr 2010 11:08:33 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Alrighty. First off, Jinxed's question got answered for her on Vent.

Second, we will start covering the fictite list here in approximately 24 hours (probably sooner rather than later). So, here are the guidelines for how this is going to go:
  • Someone from the Plot Committee (me or Bobby) will begin discussion on a subset of the list. (I'll be starting this whole thing off with the characters that were listed more than once, for example.)
  • Everyone has the opportunity to discuss any characters already posted.
  • Bobby and I will vote support (+), oppose (-), or neutral (0) on all items.
    • Remember that "+" is shorthand for I think that this character and its proposed role (as mentioned on the list, with possible revisions from this thread) would be a good addition to the plot of TV Tropes The TV Show, independent of my desire to see the character on the show in a one-scene, running gag, or fictite of the week capacity.
  • Anything that gets ++ or +0 will go on the shortlist. Nothing else will be used as a plot-important character.
    • The committee (all two of us) is encouraged to recommend characters on the list for other purposes. I can think of at least one case where I will be voting "-" but think the character would make a good fictite of the week.
  • Big Dawg (Karalora) gets veto power on the short list for the most extreme cases. I do not anticipate that it will be used.
  • Everyone is also to be reminded that we should only select two "linked" characters (from the same work, same series, or same expanded universe) in the most extreme cases. In the event that there are multiples in this sense, only those that get ++ will be used.
    • If none of the multiples get ++, the situation will be brought to the attention of Big Dawg, who will cast additional "+" votes (presumably exactly one in each case) at her discretion.

Any questions or concerns with the process before we begin tomorrow?
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
18 KylerThatch4th Apr 2010 12:23:50 PM , Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
literary masochist
Am I correct in assuming the sortlist will contain characters (and their proposed roles) approved for inclusion in the plot? Or is that more of an intermediate stage?
This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
19 Ironeye4th Apr 2010 09:52:28 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Once the shortlist is run by Big Dawg, it will be the closest to "official" that we've got.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
20 Ironeye5th Apr 2010 07:20:26 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Alright, I figure that we should start with the fictites with overlapping sources. Before I get to that, though, Dracula already got votes from both me and Bobby, so I'm going to put him directly onto the shortlist. I'll give my take on the choices in each case after listing the characters, the number of votes, and links to any post in the other thread that gave a notable amount of support.
  • Sherlock Holmes: Sherlock Holmes (Bobby) and Professor James Moriarty (Bobby+1) Both descriptions here.
    • Moriarty: We could really use a criminal mastermind, and he's one of the best-known ones out there. Are we just going to be going classic Holmes, or are we going to be pulling on LXG? Tentative vote: +
    • Holmes: My position on allies has been stated several times, and while Holmes dodges most of the ally problems, he fails to impress, especially considering that his biggest (though by no means only) selling point is his fame. Still, he'd probably be considered a workable choice if Moriarty weren't also around. Tentative vote: 0
  • Magic: The Gathering: Akroma (Ironeye, link), Croag (1, link), Urza (1, link)
    • Croag: One problem with the Croag plotline is that it's about an organization (without any Fourth-Wall-breaking tendencies, mind) on the other side of the Fourth Wall trying to maneuver itself into a takeover of the Fourth Wall. The Fourth Wall rules don't really work with something like that. As for Croag himself, well, he doesn't really have any card presence—his name is only mentioned in (two of?) the novels. Sure, he could work as a second MTG character if we decide to go there, but I think that we have much better choices. I'll get back to the Phyrexian stuff when I cover Urza. Tentative vote: -
    • Urza: Urza doesn't have any recognition issues—he's probably the best-known MTG character. His issue is power level. Simply put, the old school planeswalkers would be powerful enough to count as demigods in most settings—Urza's would be a walking I Win button in Reality. He's really only necessary as a counter to the Phyrexians (since they've had over 5,000 years to prepare by the time he's a threat at all to their operations), and they're not a serious threat unless they are able to open rifts themselves...which they aren't. Really, the problem with the Phyrexians is that if they have a chance at all, they're probably the most powerful opponents in the story, requiring someone like Urza to keep them in their place. If we don't change the setting rules and give them a large remote rift to work with, well, it's a waste of concept since we have villains that are far more interesting in smaller numbers. Anyway, due to power level issues, my tentative vote is -.
    • Akroma: I suggested the character, so you can just see my post. Those of you who remember the last time we did this will know that Akroma was not my first choice for a MTG character. I will admit right now that she's nowhere near my favorite—she just fit the show better than the characters I like more. Tentative vote: +

The Shortlist

  • Count Dracula (+ +)
  • Professor Moriarty (+ +)

The Cut List (perhaps usable in an alternate capacity)

  • Croag (-)
  • Urza (-)

edited 5th Apr '10 7:23:38 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
21 Karalora5th Apr 2010 08:06:17 PM from San Fernando Valley, CA , Relationship Status: In another castle
Manliest Person on Skype
I am choosing to exercise Big Dawg Veto on Deadpool. The suggesting contributor could not come up with a better reason to include him than Rule of Cool.
vigilantly taxonomish
In defence of Holmes, here's why I think he's suitable, aside from being iconic: he's a smart and versatile character without supernatural abilities. This makes him a perfect "sidekick" - when the plot calls for an ally from outside the Troper Team, he's the perfect choice, being competent without having powers that would result in him upstaging the tropers. He could serve to facilitate plot developments by helping the tropers to solve baffling mysteries and giving them access to data which could prove vital to their missions, but he would not be able to fight alongside them against firebreating dragons or whatever. He also has a long history of fighting against Moriarty, to the point where including Moriarty without Holmes seems strange - the dynamic between the two trying to outsmart one another is one of Moriarty's most iconic traits.

The other advantage of Holmes is that he is motivated to solve problems based on how much they challenge him, not on what's at stake. In other words he's not some hero who's going to hijack the main quest with his agenda.

Now, I'm going to tentatively vote + to all the characters in this post, with the single exception of Revolver Ocelot. I think I need more information before I make a decision regarding him; the fact that a character who is apparently such an obvious backstabber can get away with duping the Master (who is not stupid, and in some portrayals has been Dangerously Genre Savvy) seems rather improbable. Other than that detail, though, all of Ironeye's all appear to be very well thought out and entirely appropriate for the plot we have, so no objections from me.

edited 7th Apr '10 7:20:06 PM by BobbyG

23 Ironeye8th Apr 2010 01:24:20 AM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
@Bobby: I'll tackle Holmes first. I don't think Moriarty needs Holmes—see LXG (the graphic novel) for an example of this (hottip contains LXG spoilers)  *. The points you've mentioned make Holmes the best ally choice of any I've seen, but he just seems sorta...there. To me, he's the sort of character we'd use when it makes sense for the episode, but we'd never commit to using him on a long-term basis because he doesn't really advance anything unless the plot calls for the main characters to figure out something that depends on details they are not likely to have noticed. He'd be the writers' escape clause whenever we need to get the main characters some information, and I think that trying to use him will lead to lazy storytelling. So, yeah, my 0 vote stands for now—he's not a bad choice; it's just that trying to have him around doesn't seem like it will make for a better story or more interesting character interactions.

Next up, Revolver Ocelot. The thing with Ocelot is that everybody who's worked with him and come out alive knows that he's likely going to end up double-crossing most (if not all) of his allies. Each employer just makes the mistake that because he seems to be working for everyone else and has said how he's going to double-cross them all, well, that employer is going to come out the best in the web of betrayals. After all, Ocelot's plans generally involve someone winning, and he's quite an effective minion up until the point that his master plan involves his employer's defeat (and sometimes even after—why bother dropping a boss if he can be convinced that this was a necessary temporary setback to convince the other guys that you were on their side all along, thereby setting them up for an even more devastating counterstroke). While everyone else is playing poker (or in the case of mooks, war), Ocelot is playing Magic: The Gathering...against himself. Anyway, the reason I put him under the Master is that the Master is one of the villains smart enough that Ocelot could convincingly be seriously working for him for the time being instead of being one step away from slipping a (metaphorical) knife into his vitals. As Ocelot plays every member of the Dark Lodge against each other, I'm guessing that the Master and Moriarty (and perhaps Doom and Dracula, depending on which portrayals we pull from the most) realize they can't trust him completely, but still probably manage to get Out-Gambitted by Ocelot in the end. Among other things, they don't actually know that 'no matter how helpful it is to use Ocelot in the short term, it's just bad news in the long term. The Reality characters know this, of course, and off him the first time they would have to trust him.

Anyway, yeah, after seeing so many proposals that were "this character is so cool!", I wanted to make the effort to make all of my proposals work as more than just a Shout-Out.

Alright, it's time for a list update. Remember that we'll be revisiting the cut characters after we get to the end to see if any fit better with the characters that are on the shortlist. Also, I have added some votes on stuff Bobby has already approved (and noted that Ganondorf, like Dracula, already had + +).

The Shortlist

The Cut List

  • Croag (- ?)
  • Urza (- ?)
  • Deadpool (Veto)

In Limbo

  • Sherlock Holmes (+ 0, overlapping character)
  • Revolver Ocelot (+ ?)
  • Remilia Scarlet (+ ?)
  • James (+ ?)
  • King Dedede (+ ?)

I'll take a look at the other three tomorrow when I have more time and am more awake. After that, we'll move on to the proposals by people not on the committee.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
24 Ironeye9th Apr 2010 02:53:23 AM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Alright, as promised, here's my opinion on the last three of Bobby's suggestions. For the two vampires, my feelings are along the lines of, "sure, why not?". They both get a 0, since they seem like they're only filling a niche for Shout-Out purposes, but that niche did need to be filled and Bobby has clearly put some thought into choosing his vampires. smile (Really, I'll probably end up giving a 0 to any good suggestion for the purpose of filling a slot on the Vampire Council—the exact composition of the Council isn't something I'm particularly interested in at this point so long as it doesn't involve something too stupid.)

Also, props to Bobby for changing my opinion on including Dedede. The last proposal was something along the lines of "and then Dedede reveals that he was a Reverse Mole all along and saves the day because no one else ever had a chance." A, that's pretty much his bit in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. B, we don't need a character who exists to upstage the heroes (or the villains, for that matter). (As it currently stands, I think that pretty much every villain who upstages another villain ends up getting upstaged by a different villain or by the heroes. In fact, as of the very lightly penciled in stuff that is the plot in the later seasons, Xanatos is the only fictional villain who comes out ahead...which really shouldn't surprise anyone. But, yeah, I like his new proposed role. I'll throw him a + under the understanding that Bobby and I (with input from everyone else, of course) will flesh out his role a bit more once the list is complete.

Final bit before the standings update: Big Dawg has declined to exercise veto power on the last Shortlist.

The Shortlist

The Cut List

  • Croag (- ?)
  • Urza (- ?)
  • Deadpool (Veto)

In Limbo

  • Sherlock Holmes (+ 0, overlapping character)
  • Revolver Ocelot (+ ?)

edited 9th Apr '10 2:53:49 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
25 Ironeye11th Apr 2010 11:30:38 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
  • Dementors (1) as Elite Mooks of the Dark Lodge. They fit right in with the whole emotion-eating thing we've got going on. Addition: Ironeye explained that Dementors would be quite useful for the Dark Lodge in that they eat positive emotions, leaving the negative ones, which would make it easier for the Dark Lodge Heartless to feed, and they'd be presumably easier to get than the quite rare positive-emotion-feeding Heartless.
    • They seem rather redundant with the heartless running around, and there has been no indication that the Dementors can add something to the show (aside from a Harry Potter reference) that we don't already have. Tentative vote: -.
  • Waspinator (1) Being the Cosmic Plaything, he of course gets ripped right agross the Fourth Wall first chance there is. He could initially appear in Vancouver, since Mainframe Entertainment, the people who animated Beast Wars, were situated there. After seeing the destruction that went on in this world, and experiencing that destruction first hand, he is picked up by the Dark Lodge or &&& or Section IV - any one of them, I'm not too sure who exactly - fixed, and when he sees their front of "bringing order to the world" he eagerly joins up. He of course reprises his role from Beast Wars, an Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain Cosmic Plaything. Perhaps if he finds out that his employers in this world aren't all they're cracked up to be, he could make a Heel–Face Turn - which of course doesn't save him from being slagged every appearance, but he does get to feel good about doing good. The bad guys would probably take advantage of the fact that he gets blown to bits all the time and still survives to use him as a suicide agent of some sort. Bonus: If we have Waspinator on the show, I can easily voice him.
    • If we do use him, they would have to repair him, after all, and I don't think that most of the characters would be up to the task. Maybe Doom or the Master would have someone on staff or could do it themselves, but neither of them have much influence in the western hemisphere. Section IV does operate out of that region, but I'm not sure how good of a fit he would be for the organization, since they do turn out to be the final villains of the story, after all. &&& is also a possibility, though they prefer to operate through subterfuge, and he isn't exactly a good choice for that. Right now he seems more like a comic relief character than someone who affects the plot. Tentative vote: - (with full understanding that this vote will be changed if someone comes up with something for him to do that has a point).
  • Commander Shepherd is also a fantastic one as a Wild Card due to her Depending On The Player nature. Indeed, for both humour and Nightmare Fuel, she can oscillate wildly between the extremes of Paragon and Renegade behaviour. It should also be noted that one could have Man!Shep turning up on one occasion and Fem!Shep on another. Renegade Femshep. Paragon Shepherd delivers a Crowning Moment of Awesome, followed by a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming.
    • But what do we do with Shepard? What's the point? Tentative -.
  • Cerebus the Aardvark at once a simple and yet complex character, swinging between Anti-Hero and Wild Card (again) depending on what your agenda is. He lives in a Low Fantasy world which is simultaneously a Crapsack World and Thirty Xanatos Pileup. Pretty much all he cares about is drinking, violence and sex, yet he is forever dragged into all manner of intrigue due to possessing certain unusual properties (along with an unusual appearance). Morally ambiguous at the best of times, he starts from Designated Hero and slides gradually into plain old Jerk Ass as time goes on. It should be noted that the more power he gets, the more awful and hilarious he gets. For instance when he becomes pope (although all of the Free Cerebus serves as a good reference).
    • See my comments regarding Shepard. Tentative -.
  • Adrian Veidt (Ozymandis) - He's an iconic Well-Intentioned Extremist that genuinely wanted to make the world a better place through his plan, so he'd fit right in in the moral ambiguity of Org &&&. And he's canonically a highly charismatic genius that would make a great adversary for the tropers and a great asset for Org &&&.
    • He's a perfect fit for &&&. Tentative +.
  • Ernst Stavro Blofeld - Because the Bond films are world famous, especially for their villains, and Blofeld was one of the most dangerous and iconic villains of them all. Plus, because his two main preoccupations are money and power, he'd make a good ally or member of the Dark Lodge. His criminal empire would also make him a good foil for Moriarty, as the two compete to see who controls the criminal underworld when the Dark Lodge takes over. (1)
    • Good choice. I don't know if we're going to be redoing the Lodge lineup, though... Important question: how did he rise to power in Reality without SPECTRE backing? Tentative - until the question is answered, probably + if I get a good answer.
  • Scarecrow - Either the Batman Begins or Batman: Arkham Asylum version. He'd provide a great contrast to the other, more campy, Batman villains in the "Batman villains rob Fort Knox" episode, and then after that I could see him as a recurring Dark Lodge minion because his fear gas would be a great asset to them by allowing them to drive their enemies insane. Plus, like gorgardard says below, using him to show the tropers' fears would be good for Character Development. (1)
    • Scarecrow. He's a fear-manipulating villain, and thus would fit in nicely with the Heartless. As I said before, if we are doing a Hilarity Ensues episode with Batman villains invading Ft. Knox for gold, if we included one or two of Bats' rogues gallery from the more dark works like Batman: Arkham Asylum or The Dark Knight, while the rest were from the more campy works (Cesar Romero Joker, Tommy Lee Jones Two Face etc..) it would make for a good bit, the two sides arguing over what their plans were exactly once they have the gold, and then Scarecrow could escape and become a Wild Card who's amassed a small gang/army of Heartless who feed off fear, allowing him to do all kinds of experiments on people's fears and nightmares. "Go back? Why would I go back when there are so many research opportunities here?" He's also a good villain for Character Development, as you can explore the Tropers' fears.(1)
    • I like. Tentative +.
  • Judge Dredd - He's joined up with Org &&& as a minor minion because he believes they're the only ones that can restore order to the world and stop the war and crime that sprang up after the Convergence (when he came across). In purely because I think it'd be interesting to see the tropers come up against someone that's generally seen as a (mostly) good guy when they're fighting Org &&&, and it would underline the moral ambiguity of the organisation. (1)
    • It is likely that he'd be a minion of a particular member. However, the description seems more like a Monster of the Week. Tentative -, with the understanding that I vote against not because I dislike the character role but because it suggests a single encounter.
  • The Operative from Firefly as a minion of &&&. The Operative would be on his standard mission of bringing order and civility by "cleansing" the unworthy. He's a Determinator who would stop at nothing to achieve his goals, and honestly thinks he's in the right. He sees the world in chaos due to The Convergence and thinks that &&& are the best way to rule the world, though he plans to dispatch himself at the end, just like in Serenity. He's basically a scalpel to your standard thug/lieutenant as a blunt instrument - he's brought in when something presents itself as a difficulty that's not as readily solvable as someone you can just throw moooks at.(1)
    • Exactly what I wrote for Dredd applies here.
  • Joker (1) — from Read or Die (both the OVA and the TV series). "Joker" is his codename, his real name is Joseph Carpenter. He's the head of the British Library Special Operations Division, a task force dealing with all sorts of book-related missions. Only Joker was pulled into reality, but he has since started a new "branch" of the Special Operations Division here in the real world, hiring various Empowered as field agents. Good at manipulating people, and is particularly skilled with using emotional blackmail. Quite possibly in league with the Master, though he's more accurately a wildcard, working along with whoever's plans work out favorably for Great Britain as a whole (nevermind the pawns that may need to be sacrificed in the process).
  • Alrighty, I think I got the Terrible Trivium's role down now. He's one of the first fictites to appear during the convergence and says that he is working with someone to keep order so the general public won't panic. He tells the masses that they will be just fine as long as they do a series of tasks, tasks that are both trivial and nonsensical, but the general population will do them anyway out of fear of the unknown. And since he does resemble the superhero The Question many will take his words to heart. As a recurring fictite, he makes sure that the public remains distracted as its something he wants them to do, rather than something someone else wants him to do.

The Shortlist

The Cut List

In Limbo

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Total posts: 30
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