TV Tropes Org

Forums

search forum titles
google site search
Total posts: [33]
1
2

Desperately needs a new name:: Milli Vanilli get usage counts

 1 Madrugada, Sun, 26th Sep '10 12:07:29 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
It's about characters who have their lines dubbed in by another actor. It does not include animation (where the voices are always dubbed) or works that are dubbed into another language. This is when you'd expect the on-screen actor to be doing the lines as well.
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 2 shimaspawn, Sun, 26th Sep '10 12:40:48 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Live Action Dub?
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 3 savage, Sun, 26th Sep '10 1:59:54 PM from an underground bunker
So this is like that old Schwartzenegger film where his voice is replaced by a bombastic American guy?

The reason this trope is named Milli Vanilli, for those who don't remember the scandal (I myself picked it up through Pop-Cultural Osmosis, having been rather young at the time) back in the 80s the musical group Milli Vanilli was revealed as lipsyncing along on stage and in videos while the actual vocals on the track were performed by studio musicians, this came out after they had received a Grammy for their 'work'. I figured it had something to do with lip syncing from the title.

Milli Vanilli is actually known more for the lip syncing than for the song nowadays, when I hear Milli Vanilli I think 'lip sync'.

I dunno, I'm not particularly attached to the name but I think it's somewhat fitting. Why do you think it needs to be renamed?
 4 Madrugada, Sun, 26th Sep '10 2:15:55 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
^ That's exactly what it is. Or Darth Vader being David Prowse in the suit and James Earl Jones doing the voice.

Because Milli Vanilli is hardly ubiquitous enough to be an unadorned trope namer. In 1990, maybe they would have been ok. 20 years later? they're largely forgotten. Plus, they're more associated with lip-syncing than being dubbed.
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 5 Dragon Quest Z, Sun, 26th Sep '10 2:27:21 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
"It does not include animation (where the voices are always dubbed) or works that are dubbed into another language."

That's your reason? How about it was named for a group, so the "named for a work" rule applies?
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 6 Madrugada, Sun, 26th Sep '10 2:35:43 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
No, it's not my reason. It's a brief description of the trope. My reason is that it fails virtually all of the reasons to rename a trope in the list.
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 7 savage, Sun, 26th Sep '10 2:52:14 PM from an underground bunker
Is it broken? In general, we run it through 'when NOT to rename' before we run it through the reasons to rename it.

For instance, "The Woobie" is completely incoherent but it is not broken at all, so we leave it alone.
 8 The Inferno, Sun, 26th Sep '10 2:54:00 PM from probably on Earth
|Y| = |X| Add 5
...Didn't I post in a thread for this? Could have sworn I did.

...AH! That was it, I saw it in the Cut List and posted in discussion.

That said, what about One Actor Different Voice? Or something like that. One Actor One Voice Artist? Hmm.

EDIT: To show
  • Incoherent Title: The title Spoon Speaker, for example, literally had nothing to do with the trope it once described. This can be a particular problem with snowclones. Too often the cleverness of a snowclone can obscure the fact that a name doesn't quite fit, at least for the specific trope described. FAIL
  • Show-dependent Titles: The Corps Is Mother makes no sense to anyone who isn't a Babylon Five fan, for example. In particularly extreme cases, even fans of the source material may be mystified. Consider 'Sasami Syndrome' (Fan Preferred Couple) and 'Jean Grey Escalation' (Never Live It Down), two titles that were dependent on knowing the show and incoherent. FAIL (I'm counting Milli Vanilli as a show)
  • Character-Name Titles: No character is so iconic that everyone will instantly recognize what it means to be, for example, 'The John Smith'. For people who aren't familiar with the character, all characters might as well be named John Smith. In addition, most characters are not known for a single aspect; for example, even assuming you know who Mario is, a trope called The Mario could mean a well-rounded character, a plumber with a mustache, or the older brother who overshadows his younger sibling. FAIL (Also counting it as a character name)
  • Titles After Works Of Fiction: For instance, Halfway Plot Switch, Die Hard On An X and Parent Trap Plot used to be From Dusk Till Dawn, Die Hard and The Parent Trap respectively. This can be extremely confusing in regards to searches. Pass if only because Milli Vanilli actually existed.

edited 26th Sep '10 2:58:48 PM by TheInferno

"The fact that your food can be made into makeshift bombs alarms the Hell out of me, Scrye." - Charlatan
 9 Madrugada, Sun, 26th Sep '10 2:54:52 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
It was just launched without a YKTTW, cutlisted almost immediately, and only escaped being cut because a couple of us said we'd try to clean it up. It's brand new, and has no history to complicate a rename.

^^ Yep. You and I are the ones that saved it from cutting.

Some more reasons it needs desperately to be renamed:
  • It's brand new and it's already not working.
    • It has all of seven wicks. SIX of them are about the group and most of them aren't even about the group using studio musicians, that is the dubbing — they're either about lipsyncing in performance, or about the fact that they were disgraced, but not what the disgrace was for. It is used correctly on one page — the index it was added to.
  • As DQZ noted: It's named directly for a work or person (in this case, performers)
  • Milli Vanilli was infamous more for lipsyncing during live performances than for the dubbing and studio musicians. There have been other groups that also used dubbing, and a large number of groups of the 70's relied on studio musicians. The difference is that they didn't go on tour and lipsync their concerts.

edited 26th Sep '10 3:32:58 PM by Madrugada

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 10 Dragon Quest Z, Sun, 26th Sep '10 3:32:16 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
"No, it's not my reason. It's a brief description of the trope. My reason is that it fails virtually all of the reasons to rename a trope in the list."

Okay.

"Is it broken?"

Again, named for an actual band (insert jokes about dubbing here). A trope named for them should not have the exact name.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 11 The Inferno, Sun, 26th Sep '10 3:39:38 PM from probably on Earth
|Y| = |X| Add 5
...I need to get an avatar. People think I'm DQZ. Or I missed something (which is honestly much more likely) >_>

So, does this even NEED a single prop crowner, or can we go straight to rename? I know 99.999% of the time we need one, but this was about to be cut before it disappeared and it fails pretty much every situation it qualifies for.
"The fact that your food can be made into makeshift bombs alarms the Hell out of me, Scrye." - Charlatan
 12 Madrugada, Sun, 26th Sep '10 3:53:44 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Anyone care to defend the current name, exactly as it is now?

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 13 Dragon Quest Z, Sun, 26th Sep '10 3:58:43 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
"Anyone care to defend the current name, exactly as it is now?"

Not me.

"I need to get an avatar. People think I'm DQZ."

And I had an avatar in mind, but then I just thought of a way to make it better, so here it is.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
The current name is terrible. Not Speaking For Themselves might be better.

 15 The Inferno, Mon, 27th Sep '10 5:04:13 AM from probably on Earth
|Y| = |X| Add 5
Thing is, that could be someone using an interpreter, or hiding behind an attorney rather than actually speaking on the behalf of their own defense.
"The fact that your food can be made into makeshift bombs alarms the Hell out of me, Scrye." - Charlatan
Dragon Writer
... The only thing I remember Milli Vanilli for was a "Famous Brains On Drugs" poster with Milli Vanilli's being a box of powdered Egg Beaters.

...Which was, admittedly enough, during the '90s.

edited 27th Sep '10 10:18:19 AM by Stratadrake

Okay. We definitely need to change the name. This name matches the name of a more-or-less existing musical group exactly. They even had a hit and a Grammy before the truth behind them was outed. (Okay, the Grammy got revoked, but no one named another Best New Artist for that year.) If someone is interested in writing a proper entry for them, the space should be open for it.

As for the proper name for this trope, I too vote for Live Action Dub. Substituting another vocal track for the original is dubbing regardless of how the visual content was created.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
 18 Deboss, Mon, 27th Sep '10 6:44:08 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Actor Dubbing?
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
The technical term is ADR (Automated Dialogue Replacement), or Looping. Apparently also known as Post-Sync in the UK. The vast majority of the time, ADR is just used for sound quality purposes (e.g., there's a ton of background noise on location), but occasionally to replace the actor's voice altogether.

For some reason, it was a hallmark of the James Bond productions to loop all dialogue. Which made them particularly open to considering this trope. For instance, all of Gert Frobe's dialogue in Goldfinger was dubbed by a different actor.

So, I guess I'm saying we could use "Looping" or "Post Sync" or "ADR" in the title somehow, but no particularly witty examples are coming to mind.
Cure Candy
ADR is used in nearly every modern movie (mainly location and sets where they are unable to control the set noise) but its almost always the same actor.

Gollum was suppose to be this way as well till they saw Andy Serkis's performance and went with his voice as well as motions. (borderline though since he was CG)

(Good enough to put up there?)

How about Another Voice For The Face? Or Vocal Replacement?

edited 28th Sep '10 9:23:22 AM by Raso

 21 Reg Shoe, Mon, 18th Oct '10 9:58:00 AM from over there somewhere.
Awfully negative
There is currently a YKTTW (started by me) called Same Language Dub if that is any help. Fairly common in adverts that are exported from one English language nation to another, to get rid of the accents of the original nation to make it more appealing to the new target audience and to work around some of the legal differences that exist between the nations.
In the beginning there was nothing, and it exploded.
Terry Pratchett

35 tropes so far.
We have a trope for Looping Lines, which covers when it's done by the same actor. The technical term would be a supertrope to both of these as they exist now.

edited 18th Oct '10 9:20:03 PM by Prfnoff

So, is anyone still thinking about renaming this? The title is terrible.

Same Language Dub?
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
Knight of Tropes
Yeah, I'd favour a new name. Another Voice For The Face was good, as was Same Language Dub.
Rocking you like a hadoken.
Total posts: 33
1
2


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy