Deconstructing Neon Genesis Evangelion, and cynical works in general.

After getting tired of snobs going on about NGE's deepness and how it's not a shallow anime unlike all anime, and getting irritated with cynical works wherein bad things happen because the author thinks it's dramatic, I decide to think I'm so much better and herp and derp on my laptop.

I'm thinking of using the basic plot of NGE, as it did with mech shows before it, and deconstructing it.

So far:

• A) Replace the "kid pilots vulnerable to trauma" with competent soldiers. I'm aware that only the EV As can penetrate and kill Angels and they need human psyches, but I was thinking using strategic usage of N2-bombs or recovered artifacts instead of wasting personnel on making EV As that like to go whacko every so often.
• B) Remove UN Forces completely when not-EV As are deployed. Was it necessary to deploy that much supporting power every time an Angel showed up, especially when it's known that it does jack shit to Angels?
• C) The Terminal Dogma equivalent is much more well-protected.
• D) The Gendo Ikari equivalent, while cunning, is losing his hold and authority as more people pry into his motives and chew him out over the loss of his child.
• E) Find ways so that the not-EV As won't have to stab a not-Angel with a not-Prog Knife every time. In other words: Make ranged weapons effective.
• F) No, I'm not throwing in hot bloodedness in, but I am throwing in deconstructions of the This Loser Is You protagonists and absolute bitchwads who get away with everything so common in cynical works.
• G) May make the not-NGE pilots educated. Main character may even be a fan of Lovecraft and completely snarky of the Angels.
• H) Deconstruct Mind Rape and Gainax Endings. Was thinking for the main character to become infected by a Black Mercy-like lifeform that absorbed not-Gendo Ikari, sending him into a trippy sequence, but have the character poke holes in everything he sees.
• I) Attack people who try to hold one show above others because it has philosophical themes. It doesn't take much to know that I'm talking about some Fan Dumb of NGE.
• J) Attack Diabolus ex Machina and Deus Angst Machina. Tying in with the original NGE and the letter H of this plan, have the main character dumped into a horrendously shitty version of his life [abusive everyone, constant injuries, constant loss of life, constant disturbing imagery, affirmation of nihilism and acceptance that the world is ultimately crapsack], but the main character is not broken - knowing it's an attempt to break him, that it's so unrealistic, it's almost funny, and giving an inverted Hannibal Lecture to not-Gendo Ikari/Lifeform. I know this'll dive into an anvilicious author tract. So far, I'm targeting Kitoh's works as sadistic, more than suggestive of the author's preferred tastes, and made out of a warped sense of misanthropy.

...

Wow, I'm particularly terrible at describing things today. Poke holes in this, I'm still watching NGE, and I know I'm being a whiny idealistic shit.

edited 19th Nov '10 8:15:43 PM by JackMackerel

That'd probably be a Reconstruction in a way. You're deconstructing a deconstruction, which is one path to a reconstruction. Instead of taking tropes and showing how they would/don't work, you're showing how they could/should work. And really, there aren't enough reconstructions out there.

I'd disagree. I'm more or less showing how NGE [and to a lesser extent, Bokura No - but I haven't figured this bit out yet] wouldn't work.

in b4 Latw Piat

edited 19th Nov '10 8:16:51 PM by JackMackerel

I don't like depressing works because they're deep. I like them because they're depressing and that's fun when done right.

depressing

fun

o.O

I can't really see how this is a deconstruction, because you're actually changing what things are, rather than placing them in more realistic consequences.

Hmm. You're right.

A) The soldiers [and main character] are fielded only after child pilots turn out to be... uh, unreliable. B) Suspicion and cuts are levied on Not-NERV due to the loss of UN personnel [it doesn't matter if NERV is called in or not], whatever it is, Not-NERV takes the blame and gets less personnel.

I don't know what you call the trope that applies to the Children, since they're the only ones who can pilot EVA, but I'll deconstruct that.

After getting tired of snobs going on about NGE's deepness and how it's not a shallow anime unlike all anime, and getting irritated with cynical works wherein bad things happen because the author thinks it's dramatic, I decide to think I'm so much better and herp and derp on my laptop.

So take the components of NGE and skip over the W/Angst, that's a cheep way to create depth anyway. you don't have to change anything.

Edit: Nijas

Sounds like a combination of Child Soldiers and Kid With The Remote Control / Hot-Blooded.

edited 19th Nov '10 11:17:05 PM by GiantSpaceChinchilla

Assuming we're not going to levels of "mecha that tall can barely even stand let alone move" realistic, a close-range knife would make sense in this context because it's the only thing that actually can manage (assuming that we're using a semi-realistic and decently intelligent military here) and all the ranged weapons they tried before didn't work. I would also imagine that development of weapons when you are being attacked by such powerful supernatural forces would not exactly be very safe.

At least they excused it with being humanoids.

I know the problem regarding ranged weapons... I was thinking N2, but I doubt there's a way to efficiently use them without exploding most of Japan. May increase length and strength of Prog Knife.

Apart from the robot/sci-fi elements, Evangelion explores loneliness and alienation, arising from the psychological barriers people put up to avoid having their inner selves hurt. It's always nice for an anime to attempt tackling real life conflicts; I suppose it is this striking a raw nerve which makes Eva stand out, and send influence for all its cynical disciples to come.

Looking at it, its nihilism is not a good message to follow. Nobody really reconcile themselves here. The few who do try reaching out, end up having backfired upon, and.. afterwards, they might've renamed themselves to "Why" and "Bother?". Sadly, this seems to get translated along into the cynical works, albeit with little of the 'realness'.

But what is Evangelion as it is, but one half of a good statement? The cast is all too conveniently set to tumble down towards oblivion..

There shouldn't be much of a reason for them to be much better at that size as humans.

Magical humans is a different direction, though. That also tears away from being as realistic however.

Also this may be an alternative to the knives.

edited 20th Nov '10 1:15:59 AM by Edmania

in b4 Latw Piat

...

Heee~eey!

edited 20th Nov '10 2:29:11 AM by LatwPIAT

Deconstruct

Neon Genesis Evangelion

Mecha series don't really get more plausible than NGE without removing the Lovecraftian horror. Even if NGE isn't very plausible anyway.

A complete deconstruction of a mecha series would be like 'ew this mecha is too impractical lets build tanks instead'...

The Reconstruction of that would be some bullshit about mecha having a magical higher power than everything else. The Deconstruction of that Reconstruction would involve building tanks out of Mecha. Which would be AWESOME.

@Madass - Not exactly. There's quite a few complicated mech-simulation games that are very realistic and require constant attention, lest your mecha topple from improper control use.

edited 20th Nov '10 8:03:18 PM by JackMackerel

NGE neatly circumnavigates that issue with biomechs and a neural link control scheme.

Given the extremely close link between pilot and Eva in NGE, that system seems entirely plausible as long as we're accepting that huge mechas are walking about in the first place.

A) The whole point of having the 14 year old pilots was because they were the only ones that could synchronize with the EV As. It coincides with the themes of filial relationships that all the characters struggled with.

B) I don't recall that they really bothered with any UN forces after the first few Angel attacks... The UN forces were sent in originally because the EV As hadn't been proven to work yet. The UN are also directly involved with the Angel attacks because of the Instrumentality Project they were instigating and any breach of NERV headquarters meant their plans were screwed.

C) This is not a deconstruction. Several times it showed the Terminal Dogma being hacked and none of it was successful. The UN only managed to breach security because they used 5 of supercomputers against one, and there was also a throw-away line in earlier episodes about a deliberate power failure being used to trace the layout and security of NERV.

D)Not really a deconstruction again... Several times it shows the UN putting the pressure on Gendo to fulfill the Instrumentality Project. Given the nature of his job, the loss of his wife and purely because of his position of authority, who is going to challenge him?

E) Not a deconstruction. The angels supposedly have insanely strong armor and the use of AT-fields. The AT field can be neutralized when in range, so one might as well stab them anyway. The huge cannon used to defeat the cube shaped Angel worked, but it required such immense power it was impractical. The Lance of Longinus worked against the Angel in space and the EVA series are all shown to be wielding lances of their own which absolutely mutilate Unit 02 in the End of Evangelion.

F) All of Shinji's actions are justified in that his mother died and he was abandoned by his father and he's a 14 year old faced with the kind of warfare that would give even the most hardened soldier some pretty severe post-traumatic stress disorder... My friend who is an adult almost fell of the side of a building 25 floors up inside a cage and was shaken to the core that he almost died. Seems that you're more just having a rant about emo kids rather than addressing the issue of mentally disturbed characters.

G) The pilots are all 14 years old... how much of an education can you expect from them? Asuka also is extremely gifted and has a college degree, despite her age. This is canonical, by the way, she mentions it to Shinji when discussing concepts of thermal expansion...

H) I don't understand what you mean by this point.

I) What has this got to do with deconstructing the genre? Having philosophical themes is a means of adding substance to story, so that it can be appreciated on multiple levels, whether you like seeing giant robots destroy things or the analyses of the human condition...

J) Again, this is not deconstruction. This is simply an attack on NGE. All you're doing is amplfying the negative qualities of Shinji. The show already has huge overtones of losing life, injuries being inflicted on characters both physically, mentally and emotionally, Shinji does ultimately accept that the world is crapsack and his nihilistic views ruin the Instrumentality Project and essentially doomed everyone to death... Having the character turn around and be snarky is more unrealistic than Shinji having a complete mental breakdown and ruining it for everybody.

It seems to me you really need to take a step back and clear your head if you're serious about reconstructing the mecha genre... Everything you've put forward so far is just an attack on NGE without bringing anything new or redefining the genre. I know how it can feel, I'm attempting to do a deconstruction of cliche fantasy, which is ultimately a reconstruction in a way, but I have to check myself that I'm not subjectively bashing cliche Fantasy but rather putting forward something unique and thought provoking.

A. I'm aware of that, but the commander in charge would rather take the risk of having experienced pilots in crappier mechs than risk a kid spazzing out.

B. Gaghiel's engagement, despite the whole "we need carriers to drag these EV As out" thing, is kind of a waste. You could have set up remotely controlled platforms, or something silly, but it'd be better than EV As stomping on your ship and wrecking a bunch of equipment.

C. I mis-remembered the Matariel incident. Sorry

D. In this case, the UN want results. (I probably won't shoehorn this in, because lolseele)

E. Then don't field the guns they were issued. Waste of resources.

F. Realistically, you wouldn't have someone like that in a combat situation. Yes, I'm aware, chosen one and all that. Thinking of having the Shinji Ikari equivalent fall apart after the first three battles and start a frantic search for replacements. Not everyone falls apart quickly in battle, and not everyone has deep mental wounds.

G. Er, actual adults this time?

H. Attacked Episode 26, which, admittedly, was a LOT more hopeful than EOE. I dislike Gainax Endings, though. I'll probably make this straighter by showing the character hallucinating is fucked up, or that the hallucination has no real meaning [like real hallucinations do].

I. I'm not attacking the fanbase, just people who held NGE in higher regard than most anime because it's more complex. [I'm aware I'm about to slip into the "lol its anime so it sucks" fallcy.] Anno did the same. Well, not really the same, since he attacked otaku.

J. Uh... no. Main difference is that it's the reverse - the Big Bad is trying to Mind Rape the character into accepting the world is crapsack and allow this version of Instrumentality, throwing every bad thing that's happened and over-exaggerating vices in modern life. The Big Bad tries too hard, making it completely unrealistic [scenes include: daily police massacres in a city where the worst a cop will do is beat you up, an ungodly amount of starving, dying, dead-or-worse children, et cetera]. It's really more of an attack on cynical authors making cynical works, thought.

I suck at arguing, so there. lolbump

A) The point in the Evangelion universe was that only two things could breach an AT Field- another AT Field (which in this case could only be generated by teens in robots), or all of Japan's electrical outlet. While in your work, this may not be the case, the use of fourteen year olds in Evangelion is justified.

B) The Gaghiel engagement was not planned. The UN fleet was escorting Eva-02 while en route, and because Kaji had the Adam sample, it was attacked. Eva-02's actions were a matter of last resort; note that it was unable to function properly underwater because they had no equipment to handle a sea fight.

C) Irrelevant at present time.

D) Gendo was losing status in NGE as well. Kaji was a deliberate attempt by Seele to restrain Gendo, but his status as a double (technically triple) agent means that he deliberately ignored this attempt. It should also be noted that in NGE there was only so much they could do to Gendo. He knew the truth; simply firing him would risk their plans.

E) It should be noted that the failure of guns in the anime is not absolute (several battles, guns could have been used if it weren't for failings on the pilot or conditions of the environment), and in the video game guns are EASILY usable.

F) In Evangelion, deep mental wounds were practically a requirement because of the limitations of Eva-tech.

G) Not much to say here. Adults can easily be used in your setting. Kids were used in Evangelion because the story was shonen-based and all shonen heroes are teens.

H) Shinji wasn't hallucinating. Instrumentality is entirely real.

I) That still doesn't explain how you're deconstructing cynical works. People hold Evangelion above other works because it speaks to them. Its philosophical message is [i]right[/i] in their eyes.

J) Sadly, there are ludicrous amounts of starving kids in the world and there are cities were the police are absolutely terrible. Having the main character write off that suffering as unrealistic makes him seem naive, not correct.