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TV Tropes Trading Card Game:

Y'know, I don't know at this point why we don't want "attacking with the serial numbers filed off". We've made the game plenty different from all the other TC Gs even if we had attacking in.

That said, I don't really want a standard interaction if we have to do the same thing with it every time. Just leave the stats and figure out how they interact each time.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
 802 Ironeye, Sun, 16th Aug '09 11:38:24 AM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
I'm all for the stats just being there to be referenced by tropes.

Incidentally, the situations I wanted to avoid were:
  • My character's COMBAT is higher than your character's COMBAT. Your character gets killed off. (It'd make it far too easy to eliminate characters that way.)
  • My character's STAT is higher than your character's STAT. I gain (or "you lose") 2 IP! It places too much emphasis on character stats and it goes against one of the core principles of the game: for the purposes of story tropes (as opposed to meta tropes), what's in play matters more than who controls it. (The two aspects where "controller" matters are taking up SP and using abilities.)
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 803 Black Humor, Sun, 16th Aug '09 9:20:07 PM from Zombie City
Ah, and now it's beginning to get confusing again.

So, do I assemble the rules or do you?
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
 804 Ironeye, Sun, 16th Aug '09 9:45:03 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
I was putting the rules doc on hold until we figured out this (rather important) issue. I'll try to continue as best as I am able.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Solar Powered
Alright, would this solve everyone's problems? We have Interaction Trope cards.

For instance,

  • Duel to the Death
    • SP Cost 6
    • Genre Action/Adventure
    • Trope - Interaction - Combat
    • Choose a Villain and a Hero in play. The character with the lower Combat stat is Killed Off for Real. In the case of a draw, both characters are Put on a Bus until the end of their controllers' next turn.

  • Get a Hold of Yourself, Man!
    • SP Cost 3
    • Genre: Genreless
    • Trope - Interaction - Love
    • Choose a character in play and target a character with Heroic BSOD, Freak Out! or a Mind Control trope attached. If the chosen character's Love stat is higher than the targeted character's Cyncism stat (Treat -5 Idealism stat as 10 and +5 Idealism as 0), detach one of the tropes mentioned above from the targeted character and place it in the Trash Bin.

  • Thirty Xanatos Pileup
    • SP Cost 4
    • Genre: Mystery
    • Trope - Interaction - Intelligence

(any suggestions? I have no bloody clue what this one should do.)

There, Ironeye. Everything now relies on another card. And we have diversity of effects. Anyway, all I really felt necessary were that Interactions made it into the game. Well, this might open up some of the genre stats again.

But I do have a bit of a problem with characters being more important than the controller. If that's true, then what's the point in playing him/her. All that the characters seem to be doing is being a massive SP drain. They're not really helping you to win. What would be the point of having a character with, say, 10 in every stat if he/she ends up taking up too much SP and a quick Breaking the Fourth Wall, for instance, will make you go over your SP Limit.

Anyway, please update the rules first. We can work out the tweaks later.

Anyway,

  • Blood Knight
    • SP Cost 5
    • Genre: Action/Adventure
    • Characterisation - Male Adult
    • Combat 6 Idealism -1
    • Once every two turns, you may pay 5 SP to invoke Duel to the Death (Except for SP Costs, treat it as though you have played Duel to the Death.) [reminder text: Choose another character in play. If that character's Combat stat is lower than this character's, that character is Killed Off for Real. If the opposite is true, then this character is Killed Off for Real. In the case of a draw, both characters are Put on a Bus until the end of their controllers' next turn.]

(Is this guy too powerful?)

edited 26th Aug '09 11:56:11 PM by catch_the_sun

"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 806 Ironeye, Mon, 17th Aug '09 9:37:15 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
The card concept for Breaking the Fourth Wall seems a bit, erm, random.

Anyway, while I was writing up the rules, I just had a new idea:
  • Players start with 0 IP (60 IP still wins the game)
  • Tropes are normally only played during your own scene (turn). Nevertheless, you can play tropes during other player's scenes by spending IP equal to the SP cost of the trope (in addition to the trope taking up SP as normal). The flavor of this is hopefully clear. smile

I had considering a payment of IP to the player you're interrupting, for balance purposes, but I rejected that idea for two reasons:
  • IP=SP is the easiest way to implement the system without being broken because it's too cheap, but a score swing of 2 X IP is broken in the other direction.
  • It causes weird interactions in multiplayer where it could be to your advantage to play a trope during another player's turn to "tribute" IP to them.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 807 Black Humor, Mon, 17th Aug '09 9:45:34 PM from Zombie City
Yeah, that works.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
Solar Powered
Well, the logic for Breaking the Fourth Wall was that it broke the Willing Suspension of Disbelief and made every writer (except for those with an ability that allowed them to ignore Meta Tropes) closer to quitting. It was just for the moment so I had an "until end of turn" clause. The other Fourth Wall tropes are probably going to be worse.

Ah, so if it's not your scene, you lose reputation for interfering? Yeah, that'll probably work. I think.
"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 809 Ironeye, Mon, 17th Aug '09 10:06:26 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
As we currently have it, you can freely play tropes no matter whose turn it is. However, the flavor is better and the mechanics are easier if we consider each player's turn as a "scene" with a lot of effects ending or changing at the end of a "scene".

Because "temporary" (no, that's not their rules name) tropes cost SP the turn you play them, we'd either have to make my "turn" end when my next one begins or otherwise have things broken (especially in multiplayer) by having the SP reset every time a new turn was taken. I figured it was just easiest to use the "scene" model and charge players "influence" for interfering in scenes other than their own.

As for the Fourth Wall tropes, SP just represents how much the writers are able to juggle at once. Reducing SP means that they can't keep track of as they used to, not that they are closer to quitting. Thus, the effect is quite disconnected from actually Breaking the Fourth Wall.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Solar Powered
Alright then,

(I hope that's meta enough now.)
"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 811 Ironeye, Mon, 17th Aug '09 11:26:59 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
Heh, I don't "get" that version either.

Edit: The trope is for when a character acknowledges the audience or the author, so we need to build a card that evokes that.

edited 17th Aug '09 11:33:04 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Solar Powered
But that's not possible unless you have the characters interacting with a writer. Like say...

  • Breaking the Fourth Wall
    • SP Cost 4
    • Trope - Meta
    • Reduce target Writer's SP Limit by a number equal to the total number of characters in play.

(Or maybe)

  • Reduce target Writer's SP Limit by a number equal to the highest stat that target character possesses.

(Even then, it's probably a bit of a stretch.)

edited 17th Aug '09 11:39:25 PM by catch_the_sun

"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 813 Ironeye, Mon, 17th Aug '09 11:40:46 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
Right, so we should hold of on defining that trope card until we have a good idea for it. Ideally, we should be making cards for tropes when we have good ideas for the mechanics, not because we come across a trope and think it ought to have a card. We may have to do the latter eventually, but I would rather we hold off on a trope until we have a good idea for it instead of pushing it out ASAP with a mechanic that doesn't match.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 814 Black Humor, Tue, 18th Aug '09 2:22:07 AM from Zombie City
I've got an idea for that:

  • Breaking the Fourth Wall
    • SP Cost: 4
    • Trope - Meta
    • Until end of turn, you may treat any characters or tropes your opponent controls as if they do not exist.

(The logic being that now the opposing writer is the only thing on the field.)
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
 815 Vampire Buddha, Tue, 18th Aug '09 4:42:28 AM from Right behind you Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Butterscotch Dinosaur Pussy
BH, that's pretty shaky as well. Why can't you have a character introduced by your opponent break the fourth wall?
 816 storyyeller, Tue, 18th Aug '09 8:07:28 PM from Appleloosa Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
Sorry, I haven't read all 33 pages. Hopefully my post is relevant anyway.

It seems you are having trouble coming up with the set of basic mechanics. Why not go for an Illuminati style game.

Try to build up a story out of trope cards that work well together and help you achieve your goal, while using special meta trope cards to attack your opponent's stories or alter the rules of the game.

I guess I'm not really good at explaining it, but I figured it was worth consideration.

Life is simple: it has no nontrivial normal subgroups.
 817 Vampire Buddha, Wed, 19th Aug '09 4:26:30 PM from Right behind you Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Butterscotch Dinosaur Pussy
That's more or less what is going in. Implementing it is the problem.
 818 Black Humor, Tue, 25th Aug '09 9:09:44 PM from Zombie City
So, I was thinking about this, and I don't think I'm saying anything we haven't said already, but this kind of thing always makes the thread more lively, so here I go:

Well, let's start by assuming there are two players fighting over a shared story (we need two players because solitares are no fun). How do we tell when someone's won the game?

Well, one measurement would be who gets their ending in, because after that the other guy can't do anything, and you had the last laugh. So playing an Ending Trope is victory condition #1.

But suppose you have a Long Runner, and it's probably never going to end. Who wins then? Well, then whoever gets total control of the project wins. (So far we've been representing control with IP; I really think we should call it "control" or "influence" or something because we also have SP and these will get confusing fast.)
  • For an example of this, take a look at Megatokyo; originally control of it was split evenly between Piro and Largo, then over time Piro got more influence until eventually Largo wasn't doing anything and Piro took his name off the strip.
    • Incidentally, I just realized about 10 minutes ago that Megatokyo-before-Piro-took-over makes a pretty good model for this card game.

And another random thought: how many cards should we have before we start testing this? I think 10-20 per card type should do it.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
 819 Ironeye, Tue, 25th Aug '09 9:11:25 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
I'll go switch IP to Influence in the rules doc.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 820 Black Humor, Wed, 26th Aug '09 6:30:57 PM from Zombie City
I think that now Apoc left I'm keeping the official list of cards, and by my count then we've got 6 Characterization cards (Determinator, Kid Hero, Manipulative Bastard, The Chessmaster, Tsundere, Wide-Eyed Idealist), 5 Plot Device cards, all setting type (Anyone Can Die, Crapsack World, Everytown, America, Not Important to This Episode Camp, Sugar Bowl), 3 Story Arc cards (Happily Ever After, The End of the World as We Know It, Xanatos Gambit) and one Trope card (Xanatos Roulette).

I'll be going through the last few pages to get any cards I missed now and then edit this post.

EDIT: (moved to next post, in order to bump the topic and make people notice it.)

edited 26th Aug '09 8:54:43 PM by BlackHumor

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
 821 Black Humor, Wed, 26th Aug '09 8:54:49 PM from Zombie City
WOW, did I miss a lot. Assuming Apoc doesn't care anymore if we use his cards:

And now, I'm gonna go wander off and do something else. See you guys later.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
 822 Ironeye, Wed, 26th Aug '09 9:21:05 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
Actually, he requested that we not use any of the cards he created.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 823 Black Humor, Wed, 26th Aug '09 9:25:30 PM from Zombie City
Yes, I noticed that.

I meant assuming he doesn't mean it anymore.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
Solar Powered
I've updated my cards and I've nuked Yandere - didn't quite fit.

  • Flanderisation
    • SP Cost 3
    • Genre: Genreless
    • Trope
    • Choose a Characterisation card attched to target character. Detach all other Characterisation cards attached to that character and place them in the Trash Bin.

edited 26th Sep '09 7:34:22 AM by catch_the_sun

"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 825 Black Humor, Thu, 27th Aug '09 6:30:14 PM from Zombie City
Alright, yours are all fixed.

VB and Matrix, you guys both made a lot of cards. Please fix them or I have to.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
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