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TV Tropes Trading Card Game:

 726 Apocalypsering, Fri, 3rd Jul '09 8:37:13 PM from The Scarecrow Kingdom
Nemesis of Reason
It would still be an effective trick, but it would make it less effective and less dangerous. We already have a card that can do this. Not Important to This Episode Camp. It also makes Trope Cards stronger, and we wanted them to be a strong aspect of the game. Basically, not requiring SP allows the Trope Card to be stronger and more flexible and weakens a potentially exploitable ability to get the opponent stuck.

Players should be responsible for watching their own SP and making sure they don't risk cutting themselves off, but in the event that it happens they should have some out. It shouldn't just be a game loss because they are stuck. A Trope Card might be able to remove one of their own characters or plot devices in order to make room for other cards.
"Seasons don't fear the Reaper. Of course not. Seasons aren't alive. You are, though . . ." -Reaper King
 727 Black Humor, Fri, 3rd Jul '09 9:37:55 PM from Zombie City
But not having SP makes Trope Cards too strong. That's the whole point of giving them SP.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
 728 Kyler Thatch, Sat, 4th Jul '09 1:46:26 AM Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
literary masochist
From just a page back:
I guess it's back to power vs. cost again. For Trope cards, we might just have to get creative with the cost if we're planning a more powerful card, since SP is out of the question.

It's not like SP is the only thing that can make a card not overpowered.

edited 4th Jul '09 1:47:04 AM by Kyler Thatch

And now it is your turn
Your turn to hear the stone, and then your turn to burn
 729 Black Humor, Sat, 4th Jul '09 1:48:03 AM from Zombie City
Ah, but it's the only thing you can add to any card without any problems.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
Solar Powered
Uhm, guys, can we please have a copy of what the rules look like now?

Anyway,

Obviously, this will be balanced by a ridiculously high cost.

edited 27th Aug '09 12:20:48 AM by catch_the_sun

"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 731 Matrix, Sat, 4th Jul '09 12:33:20 PM from The Matrix, Canada Relationship Status: Less than three
quidf scire vis?
First off, it's Characterization, not Character.

Second, you forgot to give your characterization cards a gender and type. Also, Cosmic Horror should be of the Horror genre.

I should look for some characterization tropes that are easily placed in a genre. The ones I made before aren't so easily put in any one.
 732 Vampire Buddha, Sat, 4th Jul '09 2:49:33 PM from Where the moon is fat Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
Judderman
I've been gone for a few days, so wasn't able to comment on stuff when I liked. Issues I want to raise:

Evil Overlord should be a Characterisation, not a Writer.

I, too, was under the impression that Tropes cost SP for just the turn they were activated. Apoc mentioned that a player could lock out their opponent by resurrecting Characters; this can be avoided by having the SP cost of a resurrected Character being paid out of the SP stock of the player who resurrected the Character, not the player who originally brought that Character into play. Flavour-wise, it makes sense that the person who brought a Character back would be the one writing them.

It might be an idea to split the Combat stat into Physical Combat (PC) and Verbal Combat (VC). PC would represent a Character's ability to kick arse, and VC their ability to win arguments. Thus, a Barbarian Hero would have a high PC and low VC, and Amoral Attorney would have low PC and high VC, and a Warrior Therapist would have high PC and VC.
Some more tropes:

THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP
  • Trope  *
  • Cost: 5SP
  • Each Character with a Characterisation with the keyword 'Hero' increases their Combat stat by 1 for each other Character with a Characterisation stat with the keyword 'Hero'. This card stays in play unless removed by a card effect.
  • Flavour: As long as we have each other, nothing can break us.

THE HERO
  • Characterisation - Hero, Five Man Band
  • Cost: 7 SP
  • Intelligence 5, Combat 5, Love 7.
  • Flavour: Let's get it together. I know we can do this.

THE LANCER
  • Characterisation - Hero, Five Man Band
  • Cost: 4 SP
  • Intelligence 4, Combat 4, Love 4
  • Flavour: I'm right behind you.

THE SMART GUY
  • Characterisation - Hero, Five Man Band
  • Cost: 4 SP
  • Intelligence 8, Combat 1
  • Flavour: If we reverse the polarity, we might be able to avoid explosive decompression.

THE BIG GUY
  • Characterisation - Hero, Five Man Band
  • Cost: 4 SP
  • Intelligence 1, Combat 8
  • Flavour: When in doubt, punch it.

THE CHICK
  • Characterisation - Hero, Five Man Band
  • Cost: 3 SP
  • Love 8
  • Flavour: Can't you just do this one thing for me.

edited 4th Jul '09 2:49:54 PM by VampireBuddha

 733 Apocalypsering, Sat, 4th Jul '09 3:08:48 PM from The Scarecrow Kingdom
Nemesis of Reason
Vampire Buddha: Having the resurrecting player pay the SP is a bad idea. That takes away any strategic advantage that there could possibly be in resurrecting an opponent's character by making it far too costly and it badly confuses the board-state by mixing up which player controls what and pays for what.

Black Humor: SP cannot jsut be added to a card without problems. Increasing SP cost on cards can be a problem. Gloomlance is a Magic card that cost WAAAAAY too much mana and thus is entirely unplayable in any format. Same principle.

Moreover, though, putting SP on Tropes slows the game down in the same way that a blue counterspell deck slows the game down. That is bad. If players have to spend SP on Tropes, they won't play other cards. The game will grind to a halt. Increasing the SP limit given by writers does not solve the problem because that only weakens SP as limiting mechanic. Tropes cannot have an SP cost. As long as they are 1 for 1 exchanges anyways, they need no additional cost anyways. A simple trope that changes some stats and has a cantrip or one that blows up a story arc or plot device is perfectly fine. Remember that we said we want the Trope cards to be powerful.

Characterizations do not need a gender!

Also, rules going up onto the actual page this time.

edited 4th Jul '09 3:25:13 PM by Apocalypsering

"Seasons don't fear the Reaper. Of course not. Seasons aren't alive. You are, though . . ." -Reaper King
Solar Powered
I'm sorry. I just have a small problem here. What does a character's gender and age do? Will there be cards that specifically refer to it (and if so, potentially which tropes)? If not, do we need them? Sorry, got stuck in the Characters=Creatures mentality.

And seriously, Matrix, there's really no requirement for genre anymore. Besides, how would one go about placing things like Action Girl or Your Approval Fills Me with Shame into a specific genre?

If these questions have already been, I'm sorry but I just don't have the patience to slog through 20+ pages worth of discussion.


  • Go Mad from the Revelation
    • SP Cost 3
    • Genre: Horror
    • Trope
    • Put a Character you control on The Bus. Draw 3 cards.

  • Mind Screw
    • SP Cost 4
    • Genre: Genreless
    • Trope
    • Put all Story Arcs in play onto the Trash Bin.
    • Flavour: "Erů um Am I real?" - Shinji Ikari

edited 27th Aug '09 12:20:16 AM by catch_the_sun

"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 735 Black Humor, Sat, 4th Jul '09 5:15:50 PM from Zombie City
Vampire Buddha: Having the resurrecting player pay the SP is a bad idea. That takes away any strategic advantage that there could possibly be in resurrecting an opponent's character by making it far too costly and it badly confuses the board-state by mixing up which player controls what and pays for what.
It makes sense if you assume "ressurected under the ressurecting player's control". And there aren't many situations where you would want to do the opposite.

Black Humor: SP cannot jsut be added to a card without problems. Increasing SP cost on cards can be a problem. Gloomlance is a Magic card that cost WAAAAAY too much mana and thus is entirely unplayable in any format. Same principle.
I meant flavor problems. You can't, say, put "sacrifice a creature" on The Power of Love, it wouldn't make sense. You can put an SP cost on anything and it still makes sense.

Moreover, though, putting SP on Tropes slows the game down in the same way that a blue counterspell deck slows the game down. That is bad. If players have to spend SP on Tropes, they won't play other cards. The game will grind to a halt. Increasing the SP limit given by writers does not solve the problem because that only weakens SP as limiting mechanic. Tropes cannot have an SP cost. As long as they are 1 for 1 exchanges anyways, they need no additional cost anyways. A simple trope that changes some stats and has a cantrip or one that blows up a story arc or plot device is perfectly fine. Remember that we said we want the Trope cards to be powerful.
This whole argument is wrong because, for example, Magic has instants cost just as much relatively as any other card and they've never run into problems with people not playing creatures or artifacts because they're playing instants.

And tropes not using SP isn't powerful, it's unbalanced.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
Solar Powered
Well, we could give them another cost to play it, not necessarily SP, give them global effects, and/or just have them be "until end of turn" (things like Power of Love and Unstoppable Rage seem temporary anyway).

edited 4th Jul '09 5:48:02 PM by catch_the_sun

"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 737 Kyler Thatch, Sat, 4th Jul '09 5:57:11 PM Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
literary masochist
Black Humor, there have been quite a number of suggestions for things other than SP that you could put on Trope cards. Could you maybe describe whatever problems you see for each of them?
And now it is your turn
Your turn to hear the stone, and then your turn to burn
 738 Black Humor, Sat, 4th Jul '09 6:42:38 PM from Zombie City
Ok.

Going off the list you posted last page:

  • certain conditions that need to be filled before the Trope card can be played
    • Doesn't make sense on all cards. There aren't really any conditions you'd need to fulfill The Power of Love (maybe have a hero out but that's easy) but it could potentially be a very powerful card.
  • side effects that help your opponent
  • side effects that hurt you in some way
  • giving up IP to an opponent
    • While this technically could be put on pretty much any card, it would make the game feel too much like Black in Magic. And also, if this would be the standard cost for Tropes, and SP is the standard cost for everything else, then wouldn't it be simpler to just have SP for everything? In fact, make that last bit go for everything. SP is what we're using for all the other card types, it makes no sense to switch to something else for only one card type.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
Solar Powered
You could try a combination. It doesn't necessarily have to be the same type of cost for every card.
"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 740 Black Humor, Sat, 4th Jul '09 7:01:35 PM from Zombie City
That's gonna make a bizarre mixture of costs just because we arbitrarily don't want Tropes to cost SP. It's not like there's any good reason for why they shouldn't cost SP; we don't have to work around it, we can just make them cost SP.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
Solar Powered
Well, why not? Since the game uses a SP Limit, this means that unless you have quick ways to get rid of story arcs, plot devices, characterization cards, e.t.c., at some point, you're going to reach your limit and be unable to play things anymore. The way I see it, Trope cards are quick ways to shake up the field and free up SP so that you can play things again.

Wait, is that how this game works?
"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 742 Apocalypsering, Sat, 4th Jul '09 9:01:37 PM from The Scarecrow Kingdom
Nemesis of Reason
This whole argument is wrong because, for example, Magic has instants cost just as much relatively as any other card and they've never run into problems with people not playing creatures or artifacts because they're playing instants.

You've clearly never played Limited/Sealed or Constructed. Also the situation is somewhat different in that Magic gives you your resources back each turn. Our game does not. If you have 87/90 SP used up on the field, it will remain that way. In MTG, if you spend all of your mana, you get it back next turn.

You then list three things that, as you said, would not go on every card. However, as a pool of options, those three things will go on most cards. Option 1 on some cards, option2 on other cards, option 3 on still others. You even said that yourself! You seem to be ignoring the obvious perfect solution that you wrote in your own post. The three penalties you list could all be placed on powerful Tropes, as well as the rather logical, drumroll

No Penalty.

We seem to be forgetting that this is an option. A card that says:
  • The Power of Love
    • Trope
    • During this turn, each stat of each character become equal to that character's Love stat.

Perfectly legitimate, functional Trope. Not broken, not overpowered, yet a strong card with many applications. Decks that play with characterizations using Love will adore this, and even decks that don't might use it to attempt to mess up opponent's plays. It is powerful, flavorful, and balanced. And has no penalty attached.

Now remember, when I say No Penalty, there is a penalty involved here. The card itself is always a penalty. If you play this card, you lose the card. It is no longer in your hand. That in and of itself is a cost.
"Seasons don't fear the Reaper. Of course not. Seasons aren't alive. You are, though . . ." -Reaper King
 743 Ironeye, Sun, 5th Jul '09 12:28:05 AM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
One key problem with many drawbacks is that they are complete nonsense, flavor-wise. Except in very limited cases, paying IP for a trope would be the opposite of what should happen (either no change or gain in IP). Discarding cards seems silly in many cases ("I have to forget ideas in order to implement one?").

Even having the effects be global isn't always a good solution, since a deck that's built around having a given card will have a huge advantage when under "fair" effects. Even ignoring that issue (or claiming that the cost of a card is generally enough to balance things), there's still the flavor problem again: why can I write in an event with a huge impact on the story, but I am unable to give the limo driver a basic personality?



Perhaps there is a simple way to deal with this: have the card type that is temporarily known as "Trope" cost SP the turn it is played, and allow players to send characters and unattached tropes (but not attached tropes) to the Bus if they would ever go over their total...including whenever they voluntarily exceed their total to play a trope.

So, if I'm currently using 53/60 SP and I play a Trope that costs 5, I'm at 58/60 for the turn. If I play another Trope that costs 5, I'd be at 63/60, so I have to send at least 3 SP worth of material (either characters or unattached tropes) to the Bus in order to let the Trope effect resolve.

This forces players to balance between field control and instantaneous ability to alter the game state while still giving players who opt for field control the option of playing a Trope in the event of an emergency. Beyond that it works well with regards to flavor because plot points do count as things players need to juggle, and players have the option of ignoring characters they don't want to use any more.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 744 Black Humor, Sun, 5th Jul '09 2:45:29 AM from Zombie City
I second Ironeye. That'd work fine.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
 745 Vampire Buddha, Sun, 5th Jul '09 8:53:05 AM from Where the moon is fat Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
Judderman
I third Ironeye. That's a perfectly sensible, workable idea that fits well flavour-wise.
 746 Apocalypsering, Sun, 5th Jul '09 11:14:17 AM from The Scarecrow Kingdom
Nemesis of Reason
It fails mechanics. HARD.

The ability to toss out your own permanents whenever you feel like is way too powerful. It makes any drawback we put on a permanent meaningless and shatters SP as a game function. And maybe I didn't stress this enough but,

NO PENALTY

Is a perfect option, and in fact THE IDEAL OPTION! There does not have to be a cost associated with this.

Please please please, focus on designing cards better, not twisting up rules to make it easier on you.

Furthermore, your flavor reason is faulty anyways. If it works as you say, I can throw away my Happily Ever After card to play The Power of Love. That makes total sense.

I'll stress this again, since you all missed it the first two times.

NO PENALTY

edited 5th Jul '09 11:14:31 AM by Apocalypsering

"Seasons don't fear the Reaper. Of course not. Seasons aren't alive. You are, though . . ." -Reaper King
 747 Vampire Buddha, Sun, 5th Jul '09 3:49:24 PM from Where the moon is fat Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
Judderman
It fails mechanics. HARD.

The ability to toss out your own permanents whenever you feel like is way too powerful. It makes any drawback we put on a permanent meaningless and shatters SP as a game function.

Why?

Seriously, I'm curious. SP is still in the game, because when you have a whole lot of permanents in play, it forces you to choose between maintaining your field in play and introducing a one-time effect that shakes things up. Indeed, the possibility of losing a permanent is an added penalty for playing such a card in the midgame.

Losing permanents won't be trivial. A Character that loses a Characterisation loses stats and the player probably loses a source of IP, which is a pretty serious consideration. Flavourwise, you could think of it as a writer getting desperate and resorting to Character Derailment to force the story to go the way they want.

]And maybe I didn't stress this enough but,

NO PENALTY

Is a perfect option, and in fact THE IDEAL OPTION! There does not have to be a cost associated with this.

No Just No.

Flavour-wise, SP represents the writer's ability to think up new ideas. Using a trope is an idea, and hence should require SP.

Also, if a writer has multiple rounded characters on screen, as would be represented in the game by Characters with several Characterisations each, they tend to act almost by themselves, with the writer simply writing what comes naturally to each one, and has no need to introduce tropes. If the characters are flat, tropes are both more necessary and easier to implement. So it works with our game.

Mechanically, there should be a cost associated with playing tropes. Some tropes will be more powerful than others, and thus should cost more. If there's a ever an incredibly powerful trope, it might warrant some additional penalty, but since we already have SP as a form of mana, it makes sense to apply it as a cost for Tropes.

To illustrate this point, let's compare two cards - Magics Wrath of God and Yu-Gi-Oh!s Dark Hole. Both have the same effect, which is to destroy all creatures/monsters/mons/whatever on the field. The difference is in cost: Wrath of God requires 2 White Mana and Two Generic Mana, while Dark Hole has no cost at all. Dark Hole is banned from official tournaments, while Wrath of God is, I believe, legal. Why the difference? Because Wrath of God has a cost, which means that using it isn't a trivial matter. Dark Hole has no cost other than itself, making it ridiculously easy to play and stupidly overpowered.

Also, to build on something mentioned by Ironeye, try considering Tropes as like Instants in Magic. They cost mana, yes, and that mana could be used to summon creatures. Yet this doesn't cause any trouble, because players simply make a choice between creatures and sorceries. In the same way, using SP as a cost to play Tropes forces players to make a choice between playing Characterisations and playing Tropes.

And I know you mentioned that mana regenerates at the start of a turn, while SP doesn't. This isn't a problem, because the SP used to play a Trope will come back at the start of the next turn due the Trope no longer being in play. There is no problem. Please please please, focus on designing cards better, not twisting up rules to make it easier on you.

Furthermore, your flavor reason is faulty anyways. If it works as you say, I can throw away my Happily Ever After card to play The Power of Love. That makes total sense.

That doesn't work. The Power of Love is a Trope; the way you described it in an earlier post, it seems like a one-time deal that would be gone at the end of a turn. Happily Ever After, on the other hand, would be an ending trope, which can only be played when certain conditions are met and which automatically wins the game for the player - and given what the trope entails, The Power of Love is the sort of card that would support the conditions for Happily Ever After.

I'll stress this again, since you all missed it the first two times.

NO PENALTY

No, I heard you the first 97 times, and I'm still not convinced.
 748 Kyler Thatch, Sun, 5th Jul '09 4:20:41 PM Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
literary masochist
I'm with Apoc on this. For this particular reason:

The ability to toss out your own permanents whenever you feel like is way too powerful. It makes any drawback we put on a permanent meaningless and shatters SP as a game function.

Ironeye's suggestion would mean I can safely set aside half of all the characters I have in play to launch this enormous Trope card with all these bells and whistles for 35 SP, completely shifting the tide of the game in one stroke. And the next turn, I just get all my characters back anyway. As long as we're keeping flavor into this, something like 35+ SP is supposed to do something massive. That's anywhere from a third to a half of your writer's creative power. And for something that big, your only exchange is giving a portion of your cast a day-off?

Frankly, I'm not seeing how this isn't broken.
And now it is your turn
Your turn to hear the stone, and then your turn to burn
 749 Ironeye, Sun, 5th Jul '09 4:59:59 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
I should have been clearer about which things can and cannot be tossed:
  • Can be tossed:
    • Whole characters (flavor reason: the writer just stops writing scenes with them around)
    • Applied Phlebotinum (see above)
    • Settings with the Location subtype (scenes stop happening there)
  • Cannot be tossed:
    • Individual characterizations
    • Non-Location settings
    • Everything else
I have an idea for another rule: if something would be sent to the Bus this way, the other players have the option of taking control of it themselves. (Flavor justification: I may stop writing scenes at the docks, featuring Dan, or involving the suitcase nuke, but that doesn't mean that you can't keep using them.) Flavor issue settled (I think).

In terms of SP, I think it's supposed to represent the writer's ability to juggle multiple elements of the story, while card draw is supposed to represent the player's flow of ideas.

In terms of being able to dump bad cards, I see a few cases (considering only the "allowed" dumps from my list above):
  • Generic characterization card (non-meta)—these shouldn't give the players penalties in the first place, so there is no direct issue with dumping a character with one of these.
    • In some cases, there may be issues with keeping a character around because of some other trope making the character too weak or too strong. This is not a direct penalty to the controlling player, but merely an indirect negative associated with the character being in play. A writer would normally just write the character out of the story in these circumstances, but in the collaborative case, the other writer may want to keep the character around, which is perfectly represented by the mechanics proposed above. This is related to the principle that in the game, a non-meta trope being in play is more relevant than who controls that trope (the primary exception being who gets first dibs on activating the abilities of that trope).
  • Location, Phlebotinum—see above
  • Meta Tropes—These are where things get sticky because these tropes don't have to obey story logic—that is, they can give a direct negative to the players, the tropes controlled by players, etc. In short, these are the tropes that can care about the controller of a trope or character. Simple fix: when it is reasonable to do so, add a clause to the meta-trope disallowing the "sacrifice" of tropes/characters. For example, The Scrappy could include something along the lines of "Players may not send this character to the Bus unless instructed to do so by another card."

In terms of the "just get everything back next turn" argument, didn't we just decide a few days ago that getting a character or trope back from the Bus should be a big deal and not something that can be done on any turn in lieu of drawing a card? If getting something back from the Bus is hard, then giving a character up to play a trope really is a major sacrifice.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
 750 Apocalypsering, Mon, 6th Jul '09 6:35:23 AM from The Scarecrow Kingdom
Nemesis of Reason
Vampire Buddha, I think I just lost every ounce of respect I had for you. I don't even know where to begin with that post.

Here goes nothing.

Indeed, the possibility of losing a permanent is an added penalty for playing such a card in the midgame.

Losing permanents won't be trivial.

Dredge. If you know anything at all about MTG, that's all I should have to say.

WTF?! Did you even read what I wrote? I already said that losing the card itself is a cost

The next few paragraphs are a jumbled mess of misused logic, but I can try to sum it up. You claim that because some Tropes should be powerful, all Tropes must have extra costs tacked on. Then, because all Tropes must have extra costs, that cost must be SP. That is your logic stream. It makes multiple illogical leaps without any backing.

While I'm at it, you need to stop using MTG examples. I use them rarely to illustrate either specific similarities between minutia of mechanics or overarching requirements of TC Gs in general. This game is not Magic and Tropes are not Instants. They may appear similar at first, but stopping to examine the effects that they are intended to have on the game there is a noticeable difference in that Instants are entirely reactionary while Tropes are mostly action-oriented.

Please please please, focus on designing cards better, not twisting up rules to make it easier on you.

........................................

I'm at a loss for words. I just . . . wow. Wow.

This from the guy who made the cards of Killed Off for Real, Dropped a Bridge on Him, Bus Crash, Anyone Can Die and Mcleaned. Five of the most horrifically broken and unbalance cards to be seen so far in this topic. And in a game where we said we only wanted limited character removal.

Furthermore, you don't even know how the other cards in the game work, as per your description of Happily Ever After. The card is a permanent that sits in play and triggers on your draw step if the conditions are met. W Hich means you, under the system you advocate I can play The Power of Love during the opponent's turn and throw away Happily Ever After in order to play it.

I'm sorry, Vampire Buddha, but after a display like that I can't take anything you say seriously any more. I don't know what you attachment to SP costs and removal is, but it probably isn't healthy for this game. I think you need to re-evaluate how much you think you know about making games. Consider taking a step back for a bit and just thinking about how the game will actually play out when the cards are put into decks, shuffled up, and drawn.


Ironeye,

Thanks for the clarification on that. That actually does fix the Happily Ever After problem, but I'm afraid it only solves it because of the card's type, not because of the innate issues.

An important issue here is the ability to use your opponent's characters. If my opponent has a character in play and I play an Ending that would trigger on my draw step because of my opponent's character, then my opponent can just play any Trope and throw out their character. This is not good.

You are right, the getting everything back right away isn't as much of a worry. The action of putting resources like characters and Plot Devices into other zones as a cost of playing powerful cards is the problem. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Dredge decks that overran Extended in MTG last rotation, but they were based around a similar idea. A mechanic like this would probably create strategies based around using powerful Tropes to gain advantage and other powerful tropes to reverse the costs just paid, turning the costs into actual benefits, just as Dredge did. A card game uses the deck as the resources and the graves as the expended pile. Dredge operated by making the graveyard their resource and their deck the waste pile. It did this by dumping cards into the grave as a "cost". Mechanics that do this are dangerous.

Furthermore, I still do not believe that Tropes require an SP cost. A trope can be built to cause a powerful effect without needing a cost. Again, see The Power of Love I made above. Of course, an extremely powerful trope would need a cost. The not quite famous Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies card that I made for someone kills off every character, but forces a severe IP payment and causes the player to skip three turns. A Trope like
  • Discretion Shot
    • Trope
    • Look at the top five cards of your deck. You may put any of those cards on the bottom of your deck in any order. Place the remaining cards back on top of your deck in any order.

That is a powerful card that provides excellent card selection. It does not need a cost. Nobody has addressed the fact that I can keep making these Tropes that are both quite powerful and perfectly balanced without tacking on any additional costs. No IP, no SP, no discard, no sacrifice, nothing at all. The card is strong and balanced. That is what I mean when I said to put effort into designing balanced cards. Adding a universal variable cost of SP is a cheap design trick used so that designers can make whatever they want without worrying about power level and then just tack on a number to rank the card as being really strong. It requires no thinking or ingenuity. I'd like to see a smooth, professional, streamlined game that looks like the designers carefully hand-crafted every card, not just slapped numbers onto effects.
"Seasons don't fear the Reaper. Of course not. Seasons aren't alive. You are, though . . ." -Reaper King
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