TV Tropes Trading Card Game:

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How about this for Twist cards - they work like trap cards in Yu-Gi-Oh!, in that they're activated in response to your opponent's actions.

Some random ideas:

  • Killed Off for Real: Trope card. Kill one Character card. That card cannot be saved by Not Quite Dead. He's dead, Jim.

  • Back from the Dead: Trope card. Select a Character card from your graveyard and place it on the field. Oh thank God, I thought we'd lost you!

  • Came Back Wrong: Twist card. Activate when your opponent plays Back from the Dead. The Character they bring back is treated as belonging to a different genre. "You came back wrong!" - William the Bloody

  • Only Mostly Dead: Twist card. Activate when you lose a Character - you can activate that card's effect once. "Any last words?" "Yeah. Activate procedure omicron."

  • Not Quite Dead: Twist card. Activate when you lose a Character. That Character does not die, but you still suffer damage. Uh, I'm not quite dead

  • Heroic Sacrifice: Trope card. Send one Character on your side of the field to the graveyard to cancel your opponent's action. Noble Concorde, your death will not be in vain

  • Deader Than Dead: Trope card. Remove one Character from play. She's not merely mostly dead, but really most sincerely dead.

EDIT: I had another idea: The Sliding Scale Of I Dealism Versus Cynicism should be employed somehow. Trope and Twist cards would be given an Idealism vs Cynicism rating from 0 (very idealistic) to 10 (very cynical). Each game would start with the scale itself at 5, and this value could be adjusted by certain actions (eg playing Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids! increases the Scale number by 1). If a card's rating is more than 4 points away from the current Scale number, it cannot be played.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:56:57 by VampireBuddha

Uncle George
Dropped A Bridge On Them twin of Killed Off for Real.

Put On The Bus put to dead pile, but retrievable more easily.
This love so bold goes undeclared/a joy unseen, a world unknown/a love that dare not speak its name/hidden treasure, precious stone
28 HikarinoKaze12th Feb 2009 12:08:33 PM from The Land of Maple Syrup
Curse you for adding the Sliding Scale of Idealism versus Cynicism before me!!! I've been thinking of it all day.... I was thinking of something similar, but some cards would be desigated as Idealistic or Cynical, and some could only be played once the Sliding Scale had reached a certain level. Or they would have other effects, for example, Break the Cutie would be even more devastating if played against an Idealistic character.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:56:57 by Hikari no Kaze

-*whooooooosh* Nin nin! [1]
29 Tangent12812th Feb 2009 12:13:59 PM from Virginia , Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
Lots of scales to keep track of... Would this game be one of those online things?
Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
30 Ironeye12th Feb 2009 12:15:12 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
This is rapidly getting quite complicated. I like. evil grin Now we need to add more scales!

  • Silliness vs. Seriousness (same deal is Idealism vs. Cynicism)
  • Fourth Wall Hardness (Keeping it hard has fewer options, but you might just want to stop your opponent from going meta on you.)
  • Good vs. Evil—each player has one (stay close to the Good end, and all of your Good tropes get powered up, while Evil tropes can't be invoked. Sitting in the middle gives the most options, but least bonuses)
  • Law vs. Chaos: see Good vs. Evil

If we have the scales range from 1 to 10, perhaps "normal" tropes would shift the scales by up to one point, while dedicated shifts (like Silly Rabbit...) would be something like a 5 point shift. Otherwise, a player would really have to stack a lot of dedicated scale-shifting cards to have any effect. In this new version, invoking Friend to All Living Things may be +1 Good, +1 Idealism, while Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids! would be +5 cynicism. (Of course, a majority of tropes would have no effect, but this would give you a chance to slowly shift the scale in your favor without crippling your development elsewhere.)

Also, we have to think about win conditions. Are we going for an attack/damage system where players use characters to damage the opposing tropers? What about an objective-based system, where the goal is to complete a certain number of story arcs? What about chaining together enough arcs? Rendering the other player "out of ideas" by emptying their deck? These are things we must consider.

Edit: Ha ha, Hikari beat me to some of this. But yeah, tropes could have something like Cynical(2), which would mean that the card is Cynical for the purposes of that scale, and shifts the scale 2 in the cynical direction because it is just that cynical. Perhaps half of the aligned tropes would be, say, Serious(0) or just plain Serious, because while they are aligned to certain parts of the scales, they do not have a big enough pull to shift things on the scale.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:20:50 by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
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Will there be a way to prevent opponents from putting cards into play? Like a mechanic where if "when Orwellian Editor comes into play, counter target Troper card" ? What I liked most from Magic was the ability of blue cards to say "Nuh-uh."

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:39:41 by [AOD]

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32 Karalora12th Feb 2009 12:55:10 PM from San Fernando Valley, CA , Relationship Status: In another castle
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Author's Saving Throw could nullify any card that was just played.
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And Thread Necromancer can bring back one card from your Discard Pile each turn.
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34 Tangent12812th Feb 2009 01:04:39 PM from Virginia , Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
I like the "out of ideas" win condition- render the opponent unable to perform any action on a turn. Obviously, eliminating their attackers contributes to that, as can Executive Meddling and Censorship cards.

Whether eliminating the Troper card ends the game...

Oh, and Revival should be a do-nothing-always-playable card, allowing one to weather an otherwise out-of-ideas turn to hopefully draw something usable next turn.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:06:35 by Tangent128

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
35 Matrix12th Feb 2009 02:37:59 PM from The Matrix, Canada , Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
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Woah, lots of ideas!

I have my heart set on having the Life and Attacks be more Pokemon-esque, mainly because it was my first TGC, so I know it whereas Yu-Gi-Oh-esque would just have too many numbers, and I can't even remember how Magi-Nation handled it. I never played Magic so I wouldn't know what to do.

I like the idea of having tropes invoked.

And yeah, perhaps Defensible could be a keyword. Here's what I'll put:

Genre Bonus: Defensible:
+40, 1 turn

Troper Ability is a unique ability, though, so it stays.

As for Fetish Fuel and Nightmare Fuel, yeah, those could be standardised, too.

Fetish Fuel would be standard, so it just has to say "Fetish Fuel: Fairy, Catgirl"

Nightmare Fuel however has a variable. Namely, the detriment to my attack.

Nightmare Fuel: Insect:

All these scales... Uh, that seems to be getting way too complicated.

Maybe we could think of something less brain-breaking?
36 Matrix12th Feb 2009 02:41:48 PM from The Matrix, Canada , Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
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Oh, and I have an idea to deal with Characters that would be multiple Genres.

Have different versions of the card that are different Genres, possibly in different sets.

For example, The Hero can be in all Genres, right? so there would be eight cards for The Hero. One for each Genre. Not only does it account for all possible genres for a character, it gives more cards to use. They of course wouldn't all have the same attack and abilities. They would be based on the genre.
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I'd prefer Mt:G's system. It's quite simple and easy to pick up, yet the effects that the cards do can have rich and unique effects on gameplay. The largest difference in Mt:G is that it revolves mostly around spells, rather than creatures like in Pokemon (even creatures are "spells" that are summoned to the battlefield).

For creatures in Mt:G, each creature has a Power and Toughness, represented on the card as P/T — P or T being a number, typically ranging from 1-5. The players themselves have life points that in every game start out at 20, but can be affected by various effects, such as health gain or damage inflicted by creatures. Like in Pokemon, creatures are summoned according to the amount of mana you have, which is produced by "tapping" ( "turning your cards 90 degrees" ) a land card that produces whatever type of mana you need (blue, red, green, white, black).

The reason why I prefer the Mt:G system over Pokemon's system for TV Tropes is that tropes seem a bit more ephemeral than the creatures of Pokemon, rather more like spells. For example, Face Palm would be weird if it had attack and defense ratings.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:55:57 by [AOD]

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38 Matrix12th Feb 2009 02:55:56 PM from The Matrix, Canada , Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
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Pokemon doesn't have mana O_o

Energy cards are used for attacking or retreating, not for sending out pokemon.
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Energy, mana, whatever!

I'd forgotten that you can send them out for free, though.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:56:54 by [AOD]

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40 Matrix12th Feb 2009 02:57:32 PM from The Matrix, Canada , Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
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Damnit, AOD!

Freaking Edit Ninja! XD

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:57:58 by Matrix

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What if we start labeling some of the effects? For example, what if "Subvert" means "prevent from being played", as in: "Subvert target trope".

"Played Straight" would be a card that you would put onto the battlefield during your turn.
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42 Matrix12th Feb 2009 03:21:58 PM from The Matrix, Canada , Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
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Ooh, yeah, nice!
43 Fawriel12th Feb 2009 03:26:16 PM from the bottom of my heart , Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
jump to the left
And... inverting would send the card back into the pile?
move to the right
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Right! Or sending it back to the player's hand.

But it looks like Matrix has figured out a lot of surface content, like Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors, of the game before doing the basic mechanics, like turn structure and the like.

I'll start us off.

We need a way to control or limit the kinds or amounts of cards a player brings to the field. How should we do this? I'm thinking that various different Setting cards could bring differing amounts of Plot to the controlling player — like a basic Scary Movie card gives the player 1 Horror Plot Point. Using various more advanced Setting cards to add onto your Basic Setting cards, like, say, spending 3 Horror Plot Points to attach a Torture Cellar to your Haunted Castle would make your Haunted Castle produce 3 Horror Plot Points instead of 2 when it's tapped.

More advanced, expensive Setting cards can be added on as the game progresses, providing other environmental effects.

Another idea:

Deconstructing a trope would remove it from play entirely.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:37:38 by [AOD]

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Whoo, lots to cover! I'll be quick.
  • Yay! Matrix likes me! Yeah, I figured the genre justification thing wouldn't work in a serious game, but I wasn't sure to what extent this was going to be Serious Business. Maybe there could be Flexibility Points dictating how many genre shifts a character gets? Or cards that allow someone to justify it?
  • I think Ironeye's idea for the Sliding Scales works pretty well, especially since it means you'd actually need to heavily invest in the mechanic (and thus be fairly familiar with it) in order for it to actually matter.
  • Matrix's splitting of multi-genre cards might actually work, since there's infinite card supply here (I'm assuming?) and therefore no problem of "Dammit! Eighty booster packs and STILL no Sci Fi Hero!"
  • Considering how often characters (and plot points) come back from the dead, maybe there could be several discard piles? Those mentioned in Sorting Algorithm of Deadness would work pretty well: cards in "Death? What's that?" are back next turn, "Back Next Episode" might be three or four, or require a Trope Card to come back from, and "Back Next Season" could be lumped with "Deader Than Disco" or given its own high cost for return. This would allow for cards like Vampire Buddha mentioned, except things like Disney Death could specify that the killed character only goes to the Back Next Episode pile.
"I like them to talk nonsense. That's man's one privilege over all creation. Through error you come to truth! You never reach any truth without making fourteen mistakes- and very likely a hundred and fourteen."
- Razumikhin, Crime and Punishment
46 Ironeye12th Feb 2009 05:08:32 PM from SoCal , Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
I think we're certainly getting ahead of ourselves. Perhaps we should figure out what each wiki term/trope type means.

First up, trope types (ideas off the top of my head):
  • Invoke a Trope: play the trope card.
  • Defy a Trope: "Counter" a trope card being played (by playing a trope that would counteract it? Using a Troper power?)
  • Justify a Trope: Play an appropriate cost for the trope card. (Perhaps the trope is cheaper to play for the cost that "justifies" it, or perhaps being justified prevents some other interference or some such.)
  • Lampshaded, Deconstructed, Inverted Trope: Don't have anything good for these yet.
  • Subvert a Trope: Remove the trope card from play, transfer the effects of a trope to a new target, something like that
    • Double Subvert a Trope: Undo a subversion
  • Avert a Trope: Remove the trope from the deck/hand.

I'm trying to keep all of this meta stuff to things that can be done with a trope card rather than letting them be cards themselves.

Narrative Trope Types:
  • Applied Phlebotinum aka Cool Stuff: Gives a Character a new ability or has some usable effect on its own; can be stolen, broken, etc.
  • Character: The basic trope unit in play, they do stuff (tbd once we figure out win conditions) The will have multiple or particularly powerful abilities. Maybe playing a character lets you search for an appropriate Characterization Trope and play it automatically.
  • Characters as Device: Like characters, but with one ability and no automatic Characterization.
  • Characterization: Tropes that modify Character Tropes
  • Narrative Device: Tropes that either have a one-time or ongoing effect until they leave play, perhaps after a limited number of turns or until a certain condition is met
  • Plot: Tropes that hit play and have additional effects when certain conditions are met (as compared to Narrative Devices, which don't change one they are invoked)
  • Setting: Tropes that hit play and have a continual effect. Can be modified or destroyed by Applied Phlebotium. Restrict/Enable tropes. May power up related tropes (Perhaps you can only play one trope per turn, and each setting trope allows you to play one additional trope per turn related to that setting. I'm not thinking of going the Mt G route where up to one-third of the deck is setting; rather, there is little benefit to having more than, say, two or three setting tropes in play because you simply can't draw enough cards to make use of them. On a further note, perhaps especially powerful tropes require one, two, or even three! appropriate setting tropes to play)
  • The ones I'm not sure about
    • Dialogue Trope: not a clue
    • Motif Trope: are there enough of these to make a reasonable Trope subtype?
    • Paratext Trope: no clue
    • Spectacle Trope: doesn't do much but look cool; maybe adds style points? alternate win condition via Rule of Cool?

Genre Tropes: Only playable when certain Genre-related conditions are met. Random question: why didn't we go with the TV Tropes Standard genres as listed on the sidebar? Why do we have Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors between the genres? Yes, I know the answer is "Matrix likes Pokemon." *huggles* I just don't think that it necessarily fits the feel of the game.

Media Tropes: These could work in the same way as Genre Tropes, but I have the feeling that we could get into some trouble implementing "the medium matters"

I think we really need to hammer out the standard win condition—the functions of tropes will be easier to figure out once we know what the overall goal of the game is.

Edit: Intuition beat me to multiple discard piles.

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:09:55 by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
47 Matrix12th Feb 2009 05:31:36 PM from The Matrix, Canada , Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
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Lotsa stuff...

I was aiming for something light and fun, like the site.

But if we're going in this direction, so be it.

But I still want to be able to understand what's going on O_O
A few ideas:
  • For the Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism, it would somehow feel more esthetically pleasing if it were centered at 0 and could become either negative (cynical) or positive (idealistic). This way, there does not need to be a limit on how idealistic or cynical the environment can get. Any more parallel scales would be too confusing, in my opinion.
  • Each player starts off with a certain number of Plot Points (or Life Points, or whatever you want to call them), which can be represented by tokens or counters. These points must be spent in order to play cards from your hand, with more powerful cards requiring more Plot Points. Certain actions allow you to take Plot Points away from your opponent and add them to your own stock; but the total number of Plot Points must remain constant. You can sacrifice and discard a card in play in order to regain the Plot Points you spent on it; and if you destroy an opponent's card, then you get the Plot Points.
  • You win by reducing your opponent to 0 Plot Points or leaving them without any cards to play.
  • We should come up with colors corresponding to each of the genres. Black for Horror is the obvious choice. Other than purple for Romance, no others come to mind.
  • They can also have icons like in Magic or Pokemon:
    • Slice Of Life: ???
    • SF: galaxy
    • Fantasy: sword, ring
    • Action/Adventure: gun, explosion
    • Romance: heart
    • Horror: skull
    • Comedy: laughing theater mask, yellow smiley face
    • Tragedy: crying theater mask

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:06:15 by Eio

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These are all great ideas, but exactly which ones are going to be in the game?

edited Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:01:54 by Inkblot

50 Matrix12th Feb 2009 06:06:56 PM from The Matrix, Canada , Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
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Well in my original idea, the win condition was jacked off Magi-Nation. You have three Troper cards. If all your Tropers die, you lose.

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