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It's ALL text: Even Evil Has Standards get usage counts

The current "image" on the page, while conveying details that get the trope's message across, is ALL words. It's no different than if someone took a screencap of this forum post and put it on a trope page.

That said, I want to open the floor for suggesting actual pictures that convey the trope in more than just words.

Just to get the ball rolling, here are the (in)famous panels from the 9/11 Spider-Man comic with Super Villains lending a helping hand at the World Trade Center and Doctor Doom crying. Personally, while they fit the trope perfectly, I don't think it's gonna come off very well when any of these panels are resized for the page... but someone would've probably brought these panels up in a discussion at some point, anyway.

edited 23rd Nov '10 9:28:03 AM by SeanMurrayI

 2 Deboss, Tue, 23rd Nov '10 10:30:26 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
This was the previous one.

 3 Dragon Quest Z, Tue, 23rd Nov '10 12:30:58 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Which is now on Suckiness Is Painful, but I'm willing to move it back if others want it.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 5 King Tyrant Lizard, Tue, 23rd Nov '10 5:06:55 PM from Pfft, like I would tell.
E is for Extinction!
I agree. I don't especially like that image, but it's better than... just text that's too small to read.
Grr. Argh.
^Personally, I don't believe that should be sufficient reason to keep it as a picture. If anything, the text from the current "image" should be copied down and made a page quote; it would certainly be better than the current page quote.
 7 King Tyrant Lizard, Tue, 23rd Nov '10 6:13:55 PM from Pfft, like I would tell.
E is for Extinction!
You misunderstand. I think the current picture is bad, and the Order of the Stick one, while not perfect, is a marked improvement.
Grr. Argh.
I think one of the examples about supervillains being indignant to 9/11 pointed out that it is not like they are above killing innocents themselves. So if an EEHS moment is really more along the lines of hypocrisy, it probably is not that much of an example let alone good for a page image.

I say use something where a milder fictional villain reacts indignantly to a worse fictional villain. Yeah, that is probably going to be hard to represent with a single image, but the very idea of it is a start. I came up with a Zelda example but it is probably also too text-centric. Page quote instead?

edited 23rd Nov '10 6:17:06 PM by neoYTPism

^^Apologies.

^I'm just not following you. If evil characters are adamantly standing against another evil action, I think that's enough for it to be a suitable example (regardless of how much said evil action they're standing against is actually reflective of their own practices and values). In fact, the KKK denouncing the Westboro Baptist Church could be viewed as being hypocritical to a few extents as well, but that doesn't stop this from being a perfectly good example of the trope.

edited 23rd Nov '10 6:34:00 PM by SeanMurrayI

"In fact, the KKK denouncing the Westboro Baptist Church could be viewed as being hypocritical to a few extents as well"

Not necessarily, though, seeing as how there are plenty of things the WBC openly does that the KKK has yet to be caught doing, such as picketing the funerals of soldiers. I'm inclined to think the KKK are genuine bigots while the WBC are just looking for an excuse to try to piss people off for fun.

I'm not suggesting we rule out using the 9/11 example, I'm just implying that the arguably more direct hypocrisy is borderline Snark Bait... then again, those less familiar with the characters would probably tend not realize why it is, (though I happen to realize why despite my unfamiliarity with them) and those more familiar with the characters would probably not mind. I still think we should keep looking though.

To be fair to the WBC (and I never thought I'd ever type those words!), they've never actually hurt and killed people. The same certainly can't be said about the KKK. But for precisely that sort of reason, I like the Celine Dion one. It's cute and harmless, and presents the trope in a common comedic form. The 9/11 pics would require the reader to figure out the context just from the background, and it's pretty dark stuff for a trope that's often played for laughs.

edited 24th Nov '10 4:27:25 PM by BritBllt

"And for the first time in weeks, I felt the boredom go away!"
Not necessarily, though, seeing as how there are plenty of things the WBC openly does that the KKK has yet to be caught doing, such as picketing the funerals of soldiers.

That doesn't mean that there isn't any overlap between the two. Surely, I've yet to see the KKK show support for gay rights or the Jewish community, for example, yet the KKK is essentially saying that they denounce ALL of the Westboro Baptists Church's activities, even though they have actively protested against both.

Like I said, hypocrisy shouldn't outright negate an otherwise perfect example.
 13 shimaspawn, Wed, 24th Nov '10 4:32:40 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
My issue with it isn't what the example is. It's that the image is just a bunch of hard to read text with no real image. It might as well be a quote.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
"That doesn't mean that there isn't any overlap between the two." - Sean Murray I

The overlap is only on select issues, though, and the KKK did not say they repudiate ALL of WBC activities.

As for a page image being too dark for a trope played for laughs, that depends on the approach we want to take. We could introduce it seriously, with some of the examples being the comic relief... or alternatively, we could introduce it lightheartedly, with some of the examples reflecting a more dark version of the trope. I would say that if we change the page image to something dark we may as well do the same with the page quote, or alternatively if we go for something comical for the page image we may as well keep the fairly light, soft page quote.

And shimaspawn, what image are you referring to?

edited 24th Nov '10 5:25:51 PM by neoYTPism

 15 shimaspawn, Wed, 24th Nov '10 6:37:26 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
The current page image. It's horrid. It's a bunch of tiny text.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 16 Dragon Quest Z, Wed, 24th Nov '10 7:58:59 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
So what about the The Order of the Stick one?
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 17 shimaspawn, Wed, 24th Nov '10 7:59:48 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I'm fine with the Oot S one. It's got a man with a goatee dismissing something as too evil.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
That image definitely works and it has prior history on the page already; if no one else is going to suggest any other pictures, then I'll say it's fine.
I pulled the image and turned into a quote, as suggested. (And now I have the Ku Klux Klan's website in my browser history. TV Tropes is ruining my life in new and unexpected ways.)

As far as a new image for this page... the Oot S image works, but I think it works better on Suckiness Is Painful.

edited 24th Nov '10 10:15:57 PM by tbarrie

 20 Dragon Quest Z, Thu, 25th Nov '10 2:34:12 AM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
[up] We already have a thread about replacing that one.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
We already have a thread about replacing that one.

Okay, but the stated arguments against the image in that thread apply here as well. (The first one maybe a little less, the second one maybe a little more.)

I think which we go with depends on the approach we want to take.

If we want a serious approach to a page image, the 9/11 example would work despite its potential Snark Bait status, which should only apply to those familiar enough with the context and/or characters to see the arguable hypocrisy anyway.

If we want a silly approach to a page image, the Celine Dion example could work as long as we don't put it on Suckiness Is Painful.

 23 Ghilz, Thu, 25th Nov '10 7:59:07 AM from The Moon. Or Canada. Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Fight It Out!
Terrible Image, but great page quote

Eitherway, not that cool with the Oot S image. All the things that made it a terrible image for Suckiness Is Painful still apply here.
Ecce Homo Superior
[up][up]But if you're not familiar with the characters, it loses the meaning of the picture anyway.
(it's David Bowie)
 25 Dragon Quest Z, Thu, 25th Nov '10 8:28:24 AM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
[up][up] How?
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Image Pickin: Even Evil Has Standards
Nominations for replacement images:
At issue:
Total posts: 129
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