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Bakuman
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Bakuman:

Jesus as in Revelations
Ah, I forgot you already said that once. The spontaneity with which it came out was suspicious from the beginning.

In Japan, they seem to still be in the phase: "Manlinness (competition, rivalry, belligerence) is the best thing ever. But women can do that too..." and haven't arrived at the next phase: "Therefore, women are the same as men".

If Katsuragi starts dating Miura I'll eat my hat!
I don't think it was lampshading sexism. It was just sexism period. Even if the series wasn't sexist in general in its portrayal of women, the offhand manner in which the female mangakas were mentioned, like they were a mere afterthought, makes this sexism, not a lampshade of the general sexism in the book. The mangakas evidently feel like they're being reasonable people and that their sexism is completely justified. Two words: Japanese culture.
 
 303 Raw Power, Sat, 5th Jun '10 7:03:04 AM from Barcelona
Jesus as in Revelations
Hypocritical humour, much?

Seriously, I lol'd so much at this scene... well, snickered is more appropriate... Muttley'd, to be precise:

[[youtube:UZm47SrmuwM&feature=related]]

BEST Coffee Ever
Iwase is seriously one of the worst characters of the manga. Can't they simply forget her and retcon +Natural to be all Niizuma's work? Meh, I guess not.
I'm not a bug, I'm a feature!
 305 Kayeka, Sat, 5th Jun '10 8:23:46 AM from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Iwase is sure a whole lot more angry then she has any right to be. I don't mind someone being a bit cracky or egocentrical. Heck, I love Tsundere when done well. But being completely unreasonable is more then I can accept.
 306 Raw Power, Sat, 5th Jun '10 8:25:38 AM from Barcelona
Jesus as in Revelations
She's a human being. With real, crippling, unreasonable flaws. Also, Intelligence Equals Isolation. Now get over it.
BEST Coffee Ever
^ You seem to misunderstand. It's not that she has flaws, but that her flaws are exaggerated to the point of annoying me, not to mention that they're pretty much her only character trait, with her Informed Ability (amazing talent!) being the second.
I'm not a bug, I'm a feature!
 308 Kayeka, Sat, 5th Jun '10 8:36:24 AM from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
I doubt any 'flawed human' could be this angry over something like this and still be sane enough to be a best-selling author.
 309 Gilphon, Sat, 5th Jun '10 8:39:17 AM from The Third Sound Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Scum
I saw that scene and thought 'wow, that's going to annoy AHR'. I wasn't entirely right about that it seems, but Iwase is definitely the worst character as of that scene. Never minded her before then, but the way she just flipped out... ugh.
Welp, sig's different now.
 310 Raw Power, Sat, 5th Jun '10 8:53:44 AM from Barcelona
Jesus as in Revelations
I've seen worse... (wait, Asuka actually had a Freudian Excuse... maybe iwase has one too?).

^^ Sane? Of what use is "sanity" to a best-selling author? They're usually all neurotic recluses!
Not Actually Indie
I don't know about all, but there's definitely no shortage of bestselling nutjobs. I considered making a list, but decided against it when I realized I'd have to throw in the wikipedian disclaimer

This is an incomplete list, which may never be able to satisfy certain standards for completion.
...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
 312 Kayeka, Sat, 5th Jun '10 9:34:33 AM from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Alright, that was a bad point. But the way she swears unending vengeance against those who turned her down in a most civil matter still isn't really how most people react to such situations.

And I find it mostly a cheap way to give Takagi an 'rival'. They did the Friendly Rival thing pretty good with Eiji, though.
Jesus as in Revelations
^ A Woman Scorned. One of the Tropes of Legend.

edited 5th Jun '10 10:18:45 AM by RawPower

 314 Kayeka, Sat, 5th Jun '10 11:01:20 AM from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
^I would like to point out that most examples of that trope (if not all) would have the man and woman in question to already be in a steady relationship, and event that caused the 'scorn' was a whole lot more horrible then 'politely turned down'.

(Also, Woman Scorned is not on the Tropes of Legend list)

I'm not denying that current situation would fall under this trope, but that doesn't change that it has been done badly.

In my opinion, of course. Unless you have something really interesting to say, I suggest we agree to disagree and stop this game of it-is/it-isn't.

edited 5th Jun '10 11:03:02 AM by Kayeka

Not Actually Indie
I wouldn't say that it's been done badly so much as that it highlights how neurotic Iwase is. She's overreacting, but the fact that it's an overreaction doesn't mean it's an example of bad writing.
...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
Jesus as in Revelations
But the clearly sexist mentality of the writers does make it worse. At least they are writing "realistic" Japan...

Damn, I wouldn't like to be a woman there...
 317 A H R, Sun, 6th Jun '10 8:48:54 AM from Crevice of your Mind
Resistance is Futile
I was going to link to this, and facepalm, but clearly someone already did that.

However...

*facepalm*

Also, it seems like the more they go on, the more they make it as if the real reason Natural is any good is because of Eiji.

And...ahahaha. Yeah, Gilphon, that did annoy me. XD

edited 6th Jun '10 8:50:09 AM by A_H_R

Why are all the females in this series made out of cardboard? -pokes holes in Iwase-
 
Good Job!
I don't think ALL the women are that bad. I for one don't mind Aoki too much. Recent studies indicate she's much less of a bitch than Iwase is, but then shes not a complete wimp either. I personally found the slapping of Nakai very satisfying.
Today I decided that "electricity" is just a fancy word for "magic".
 320 Clarste, Mon, 7th Jun '10 10:18:22 PM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
We haven't seen her for a while though, despite the constant cutting to other mangaka for reaction shots that the series is so fond of.

Jesus as in Revelations
^ Don't you get it? "It's a man's world!" _
 322 A H R, Tue, 8th Jun '10 2:03:20 PM from Crevice of your Mind
Resistance is Futile
It's better than Death Note, which isn't saying much, and characters like Aoki have been getting Character Development and the main female protagonist has been shown to have somewhat hidden depths.

Not that it makes it all OK.
Good Job!
I think with Death Note one of the main reasons women weren't portrayed very well was that every time a sensible, confident clever one came along she was swiftly dispatched of. Naomi and Wedy come to mind...
Today I decided that "electricity" is just a fancy word for "magic".
 324 Raw Power, Wed, 9th Jun '10 3:25:01 AM from Barcelona
Jesus as in Revelations
Maybe the authors can't handle having smart women around and that's why they indulge in this very mild form of Monster Misogyny? Also, Naomi was portrayed as quite sensible, and a very real threat to Light, but she got killed over sweet words, a smile, and "destiny", so, does that count as portraying her as stupid?

And why does it feel exceptionally assholish from Light? I mean, if he didn't get rid of her, she'd have him busted and executed in no time! (Not that it wasn't his own damn fault in the first place for killing Penber, who was about to leave him alone, too). What'd you expect him to do, go in hiding? Take over the yakuza?

edited 9th Jun '10 3:25:16 AM by RawPower

Good Job!
I don't know if Namoi's obliviousness to Light's agenda was completely due to the fact she was a woman. All through the series Light is portrayed as very charismatic, and it's not only women that he's able to charm. Its just a little bit of a shame that she had to die in order for the story to continue.
Today I decided that "electricity" is just a fancy word for "magic".
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