Pokémon General Thread

That happened to me while playing Pokemon Sage, using Dig in the overworld, a couple times.

It crashed the game.

speaking of pokemon sage, basilect looks stupid

edited 22nd Aug '17 3:57:58 AM by flamemario12

?

Gen 5's argument against was pretty much that the Pokemon society itself doesn't abuse the Pokemon and does a pretty good job of it and that if Pokemon really wanted to leave, they probably just would or show their discontent. There are two major actual problems to those claims.

A. While society itself opposes it, there are still evil teams all over that are happy to abuse Pokemon that are only stopped by random kids while authority is laughably incompetent at actually doing anything. Gen 5 was the only region that had people who even tried.

B. The nature of being in a Pokeball means they don't exactly get a complete choice in the matter.

While B is acknowledged, A isn't for the whole Necessary Weasel thing. Considering competitive doesn't have as much clout in-universe, it's also less of a factor however with the events of the Battle Resort, it's clear it still exists but in the form of exclusive clubs. Also considering Grunts near the end of the game admit they abused the mons they took from trainers to build N's Castle in the first place, Ghetsis probably had a good number of abused Pokemon ammo already as long as he played smart and made it not look like his faction.

Just because some people abuse their pets doesn't mean that the inherent act of owning a pet is bad or immoral. The incompetence of authority in the Pokémon universe is an entirely different criticism, and is a Necessary Weasel all of its own (because if the authority was competent then the player wouldn't get to feel like a badass when they took down the villains pretty much by themselves, with the Champion/Gym Leaders at best in a support role).

I think the issue is less owning a pet and more 1) obtaining that pet by beating the crap out of it and trapping it in a capsule and 2) forcing said pet to fight for profit and amusement. It's also implied that a lot these creatures are fairly intelligent or sentient.

Game Freak decided to disregard the obvious moral implications with the whole "pokemon are our friends" theme, which has it's own dark implications. It paid off though as the Moral Guardians didn't really have a problem with it. I remember in the 90's when the series first came out and was a global phenomenon, parents were praising it for being a kid-friendly and nonviolent source of entertainment for children.

edited 22nd Aug '17 10:58:14 AM by ElementX

Most of the ways they've attempted to justify it over the years amount to making them appear to be blood knight. How battling is treated throughout the main series has always been fairly positive in the sense that Pokemon do it themselves anyway for better or worse and I suppose that's what N's revised worldview seems to be getting at. Gen 5 mostly weasels out of the debate by implying this towards the mons and that N wasn't really considering Pokemon's feelings at large due to the only abused Pokemon thing.

Yeah that leaves some cracks in the details and a good amount of it is acknowledged but they probably knew focusing too much on one side would create a large moral guardian problem and well...for kids.

What's great is that BW's immediate follow up has random trainers (not villains) gleefully bragging about mistreating their Pokemon in Victory Road, and than threw in the whole "Pokeballs are mind control devices" angle that they've never really followed up on.

Even Wally gets in the fun

You mean the people who mention to be former Team Plasma members? Because they didn't seem to be bragging about it. And it's less of a "mind control device" and more of a "power limiter" considering Gen 4 and it's explanation as to why Cyrus doesn't just chuck his Master Ball at the legends.

Considering I mentioned the Resort, I do like how the idea is noticed with Wally considering we never really saw a competitive side in-universe until then. Hatching eggs indeed.

edited 22nd Aug '17 11:50:01 AM by Meloelebi

It's been a bit, but there's an ace trainer or two who, after you beat them, make comments about how they can make their Pokemon do anything because they'll always listen to them.

The fact that Pokemon don't show their discontent is what makes the premise seem ridiculous upon further inspection.

I don't really see EVERY SINGLE Pokemon, given how intelligent some of them are implied to be, taking orders from snot-nosed kids and being forced into cockfighting.

I mean, have you ever tried using a level 100 pokemon when you first start out the game?

It just basically does whatever it wants and often falls asleep in battle because it couldn't care less what you have to say.

That's all of Victory Road's trainers in that game and nothing like that was said.

And yet unless more pops up countering it, there's not much to say. Only thing that really does is maybe Footprint Records for some types of Pokemon.

And then you earn badges to earn their respect, although that goes back to being stuck in a Pokeball means they have little choice in giving you a chance in the first place which I mentioned was more of the actual problem.

edited 22nd Aug '17 12:24:12 PM by Meloelebi

Also, Pokémon are the ones who instigate fights in the wild. If they don't want to take orders from Trainers, then they won't approach those Trainers in the first place. It's difficult to 'see' an absence like that.

What about Sweet Scent/Honey? Or pre-existing encounters with say, Legendaries? The former at least could be seen as luring the pokemon to you.

edited 22nd Aug '17 12:42:54 PM by MorningStar1337

Sweet Scent/Honey only increases the chances of getting certain Pokemon so it's still only the ones that like fighting that will show up. As for prescripted encounters the fact that they don't run away shows that they're still willing to serve you if you prove yourself worthy from an inuniverse standpoint.

You can lure them, but they don't have to battle you. They could just run away in the worst case scenario.

Legendaries especially when you make them faint have shown they definitely have the ability to just flee somewhere you can never find them again period if they really want to.

And yeah like above considering the mons aren't stupid, they can likely tell as they come to investigate that there's a human standing where that honey/nice scent is and have a choice to actually encounter you or not.

edited 22nd Aug '17 1:03:55 PM by Meloelebi

Pokemon like to fight though, or at least get stronger, even those who aren't really fighters.

There might be some that just don't know any better or get in over there head with the whole "belonging to a human" thing. Like people who join the army and realize, even though they've made that cut, that in some way or another they're not fit for it.

It's kinda silly to say that all of them, 100% across the board, are totally okay with being someone's property for the rest of their life.

edited 22nd Aug '17 1:33:13 PM by Hashil

They meant this thing.Yeah, I'm sure there are better ideas of a Bug/Dragon psudolegend out there. The design is set in stone as far as they're concerned.

I know they wanted to "combine the best type with the worst type" but like, couldn't they have made it look like anything other than just a beetle version of Dragonite?

That guy looks great. Can't really say the same for its pre-evo's though.

That's not the point being disputed, though. There might be Pokémon that aren't comfortable with having a Trainer, but that doesn't mean that all of them are being enslaved and forced to fight against their will.

Gotta admit I wouldn't call that design "Apex" but it is better than other romhacks I've seen. I can accept it.

And we're back to battling itself not really being the problem as much as the concept of Poke Balls.