The sky-high aircraft and aviation thread

According to Wikipedia's article, residual jet thrust in most turboprop designs is under 10% of total thrust, the rest being the propeller. Sounds about right to me.

I did not know that about turboprops. You must understand that while genuine and extensive, my love of aircraft is largely superficial. Well maybe that's not the right word, but the point is that I'm bad with science and engineering matters.

I guess my misunderstanding of turboprops leads me to this question: Could you refit turboprop planes to run on powerful electric motors if fossil fuels were no longer available? (The scenario assumes a power source that can generate unlimited electricity for the motor)

edited 20th Apr '10 12:38:57 PM by frog753

I guess you could take out the actual turbine and replace it with the electric motor (although you'd lose the residual thrust bonus in the process). Since electric motors tend to be (I think) fairly light, then performance might be comparable.

You could always use hydrogen combustion if you wanted to. I doubt you'd even have to modify the turbine that much.

This is for a story that runs on Rule of Cool, so I'm not too concerned with realistic logistics. It's also sort of why I asked about the OV-10 earlier.

On a related note, how easy would it be to retrofit P-3's and C-130's into bombers?

Speaking of bombers (I sure am throwing an awful lot of thoughts into this thread...), opinions on the Avro Vulcan?

The problem with electric is the energy storage. Batteries are heavier than kerosene for the same amount of energy stored. It's more likely that, should crude oil become in such short supply that it's too expensive for commercial aviation, that either artificially produced fuels (e.g. oil produced from coal or biofuels) would be used, or hydrogen.

The P-3 Orion? As long as you got rid of the AWACS radar, then it'd be fairly easy, especially if you added external hardpoints. It would probably be a medium bomber.

As for the Hercules, it would probably be a perfect heavy bomber.

The Vulcan is a lovely aircraft, very graceful and fast, but I think it'd be way too easy to hit with any good anti-air weapon because of its sheer size (saw it in person, pretty massive!).

^As you said, power to weight ratio is all important in aviation. Of course, he did say that these batteries were more advanced (more like the arc-reactors from Iron Man).

edited 20th Apr '10 12:51:10 PM by Flanker66

The Vulcan was exceedingly cool, and I'm glad that one has been restored to flying condition. I always thought, though, that the Handley Page Victor was even more fascinating — such a weird looking aircraft.

Definitely, but it also has that certain quality that makes it looks as if it's moving even when standing still - if you excuse the cliche.

Yeah, no batteries at all. Just an arc reactor-like thing sending electricity straight to the motor. I mean, what else was I supposed to do if I wanted to write a post-apocalyptic story based on a book where one of the key points is the end of all oil and gas, and yet still include vehicles to make it more exciting? Being not a scientist, this was the option I took. Phlebotinum all the way, sure, but it makes it all much more interesting than if everyone is limited to reviving cavalry.

I find what I did hilarious, since the author of the book that inspired me is such a die-hard peak oiler, and the lack of working vehicles in the book (which is, by the way, World Made By Hand, also accessible from my signature) is practically the whole damn point!

Ninja'd: I was gonna mention the Victor too. That thing is cool looking, but also is sort of Nightmare Fuel for me. Just looking at it makes me think "nuclear war"...it's so menacing...

edited 20th Apr '10 12:59:52 PM by frog753

I like the Ka series of Russian helicopters.

The hind is not a helicopter its a tank with rotors.

I would have to agree on liking the Ov-10 Bronco I like the tail design.

The B-36 is an impressive machine. The one at the SAC musuem out here is a quite something to behold.

The Russians have quite a few interesting craft Sukhoi S47 I just like the shape of it. It looks properly menacing to boot.

As far back as I can remember I have liked the A-10.

But my personal favorite is the P-38 Lightning P-38 The Fork Tailed Devil Consequently I am also partial to the De Havilland Mosquito

New Osprey TOY is a flying hunk of garbage/death trap. It has issues with its vtol abilities and other stability issues. The Marines unofficially hate it.

Well, if you've got super high density energy storage phlebotinum, then an electric prop makes perfect sense.

I'm sure the Su-47 Firkin would have been absolutely fascinating if it ever went into full production.

As for the Mosquito - the Nazis hated hated hated it, and for good reason! They could actually outrun most contemporary fighters, and the best part is that they were made out of wood!

The P-38 Lightning is an interesting beast; I'm sure that it probably afforded very nice visibility, like the OV-10.

Oh, the S47. I kind of wish that was actually going into production (because they decided against it, right?), and I used it briefly in Nation States as the primary fighter of my main nation, before they decided it was too expensive and switched to the Flanker.

Ok, here's a personal favorite: The F-105 Thunderchief (AKA "Thud"), which shocked me when I first saw one in person because it's shaped like a fighter but is much bigger than some/most of the fighters of its day.

Also, most amusing combat kill I can think of for any aircraft off the top of my head: "On January 17, 1991, a USAF EF-111 crew: Captain James Denton and Captain Brent Brandon ("Brandini") are acknowledged to have scored a kill against an Iraqi Dassault Mirage F1, which they managed to maneuver into the ground, making it the only F-111 to achieve an aerial victory over another aircraft." Proof in my mind that anything named Raven is probably going to be awesome.

I love the F-111 Aardvark, the Tu-160 Blackjack, the B-1B Lancer, and the Tu-22M Backfire. Basically, I like the aesthetics of anything swing-wing.

I was amused to note that a Victor accidentally flew last year. The aircraft is functional but does not have an airworthiness certificate, but is shown off at airshows taxiing and doing simulated takeoff runs; one of those accidentally became a real takeoff and the plane flew a few hundred feet before landing again.

Hah! So I wonder what happened next...

Someone probably got in a lot of trouble! I'm guessing that they'd like to eventually get the thing certified to fly, but I'm imagining the issue is fatigue life left in the airframe, which is probably near zero, given the hard use those planes got.

I guess. The aviation authorities don't exactly mess around or play with kiddy gloves!

Did you hear about that new commercial plane model that had all the fancy composites? I recall it having some obscene fuel efficiency increase on the order of thirty percent less fuel spent per flight.

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner?

That might be it, I'm trying to remember what a buddy told me.

Ok. It's because I think I remember that the 787 apparently would introduce quite a few fuel savings...

How could one make an electrically-powered supersonic craft? Would placing heating elements in a ramjet work?

Is that directed at me? The answer is: Who ever said anything about supersonic? In my world I'm writing, speed isn't important. Prop planes go plenty fast enough, and even they're not that widespread outside of militaries.